Why should I take sides…

[bob60292]

Quote by: shrike I am sorry propaganda books or websites by Palestinian nationalists, holocaust deniers and religious extremists is not proof to anything. You still failed to explain why information from this sources is an ultimate truth?

Another example of lies--When did I deny the holocaust? There you go again!!!!!!

[shrike]

Another example of lies--When did I deny the holocaust? There you go again!!!!!!

I never claimed that you denied holocaust you only referenced to book by holocaust denier.

Hoffman's self-described vocation is "researching the occult cryptocracy's orchestration of American history." He believes that this cryptocracy runs American history, controlling culture and thought via ritualistic psychodramas and killing sprees. Examples of such "psychodramas," in Hoffman's view, include Route 66 (which connects various centers of Satanic importance), and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy[1]. Hoffman also argues that the final plans of this ruling cabal are slowly being revealed through movies such as They Live and The Matrix.[1] Hoffman also contends that the British Empire might have achieved its power via a pact John Dee made with the Devil [2]. He has characterized Jews as "Khazars" and Ashkenazi as "Ash-ken-nazi", [3]

What a wacko:eek:

Political scientist Michael Barkun has characterized Hoffman as a "Holocaust denier and proponent of multiple conspiracy theories"[2], while Mattias Gardell contends that Hoffman is "one of the counterculture's more original conspiracy researchers"[3] Robert Jan Van Pelt calls Hoffman a Holocaust "negationist" [4

]
Michael A. Hoffman II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here are some quotes by him so everybody can make their mind
Michael Hoffman II: October 1994
Michael Hoffman II: October 1994
Antisemitic cartoon from Michael Hoffman II
Anti-Semitc cartoon.

[bob60292]

Quote by: Atlas The last comment is specifically about you questioning the ancestry of modern Jews, and not about the right or wrong of Zionism, so I will ignore that part of your post for now. Where ??? You never gave me a link about your claims that modern Jews are all Khazars, but I will give you one, and it scientifically disproves your claim: Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries Are Russian Jews Descended from the Khazars? History of the Jews in Spain History of the Jews in France How can you explain the existence of Jewish communities in Europe prior to the foundation of the Khazar kingdom (652-1016) ?

At best you might say that a few do have a genetic link to a semetic race; No kidding!!! Having a fractional link to a semetic race does not make one any more "Israelite" than Arafat was. Even if it did it would not justify the crime that was inflicted upon the Palestinians people. Why do you constantly regurgitate the holocaust as an excuse to impose a another holocaust on others? Might does not make right.
Most Americans, even with real genetic links to Europe, don't use the linkage as a sense of entitlement to land anywhere.. Americans of all ancestries are Americans, except fraudulent "Americans" who place their loyalties somewhere else. They are neither entitled to the land, influence in the American government, nor one cent of my involuntary financial support, despite the fact that they get it anyway..
Why don't you read Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.Instead of asking "where", why don't you go back and look. I am not the only one who has presented evidence. Why don't you read the Talmud, and start a movement to to change the hateful, murderous words that art directed anainst gentiles before you try to explain the existence isolated Jewish communities.

[shrike]

[

At best you might say that a few do have a genetic link to a semetic race; No kidding!!! Having a fractional link to a semetic race does not make one any more "Israelite" than Arafat was. Even .

But Arafat is an Arab. Modern Jew could only recieve his Semitic link from ancient Jews(Hebrews).They could not receive it from Chasers because there were Turks.

if it did it would not justify the crime that was inflicted upon the Palestinians people. Why do you constantly regurgitate the holocaust as an excuse to impose a another holocaust on others? Might does not make right

There is no holocaust imposed on any one right know.

Why don't you read Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.Instead of asking "where", why don't you go back and look. I am not the only one who has presented evidence

His theory was discredited long time ago by scientific community

DNA studies demonstrate that Ashkenazi Y-Chromosome Jews originated in Middle Eastern populations, [6] as has the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of at least 40% of the current Ashkenazi population.[7] So although Khazars might have been absorbed into the Jewish population it is unlikely that they formed a large percentage of the ancestors of modern Ashkenazim. [8] Another criticism that has been levelled against Koestler's work is that he largely appropriated his history from such sources as D.M. Dunlop, sometimes without proper attribution. Moreover, it has been pointed out that his more speculative second half (discussing his theories about Ashkenazi descent) is largely unsupported; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources. Other critics of the Khazar-Ashkenazi theory have stated that the prime motive for even the small degree of acceptance of these ideas is because they have become political and anti-Zionist in nature. The Khazar theory has been adopted by many anti-Zionists, especially in the Arab world; such proponents of the theory argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar in origin, then they would be outside the scope of God's promise of Canaan to Israelites as recorded in the Bible. This ignores, of course, the fact that the Biblical promise explicitly includes converts, and the fact that over half of Israeli Jews are not Ashkenazi. (see Demographics of Israel, Jewish exodus from Arab lands) Some have countered that such charges of a political motive are not relevant to the core of the argument; in any event, Koestler himself was emphatically pro-Zionist based upon secular considerations.

Khazars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Thirteenth Tribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why don't you read the Talmud, and start a movement to to change the hateful, murderous words that art directed anainst gentiles before you try to explain the existence isolated Jewish communities.

Well you inquisition friends are did good job to create a false impression by the quotes taken out of the context. Here is a debunk
The Real Truth About The Talmud

[Atlas]

Quote by: bob60292 At best you might say that a few do have a genetic link to a semetic race; No kidding!!! Having a fractional link to a semetic race does not make one any more "Israelite" than Arafat was.

Research shows it is not "some" link, but a proof of genetic ancestry of ancient Hebrews to Jews anywhere, which, I might say, is more relativeness than any nation can achieve to its historic ancestors after 2000 years of living among other nations.

Quote by: bob60292 Even if it did it would not justify the crime that was inflicted upon the Palestinians people. Why do you constantly regurgitate the holocaust as an excuse to impose a another holocaust on others? Might does not make right.

I did not use the holocaust to justify anything as much as IDF actions in the Palestinian territories, controversial as they might be, is not a holocaust.

Quote by: bob60292 Most Americans, even with real genetic links to Europe, don't use the linkage as a sense of entitlement to land anywhere.. Americans of all ancestries are Americans, except fraudulent "Americans" who place their loyalties somewhere else. They are neither entitled to the land, influence in the American government, nor one cent of my involuntary financial support, despite the fact that they get it anyway..

Modern day Americans and their ancestors migrated willingly, Jews where forced out of their country by the Romans, if I would accuse any nation of not having any clear national ancestry, the US would be the first one.

Quote by: bob60292 Why don't you read Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.Instead of asking "where", why don't you go back and look. I am not the only one who has presented evidence.

Some facts about your guy:

He supported the statehood of Israel, but remarked that the Balfour Declaration of 1917 amounted to "one nation solemnly promising to a second nation the country of a third." [citation needed] He believed that Israel would never be destroyed short of a second Shoah. [citation needed] However, he opposed a diaspora Jewish culture: In an interview published in the London Jewish Chronicle around the time of Israel's founding, Koestler maintained that all Jews should either migrate to Israel or else assimilate completely into their local cultures.[citation needed] As for Jewish culture in Israel, Koestler proposed that Israel drop the Hebrew alphabet for the Roman.

Koestler stated that part of his intent in writing The Thirteenth Tribe was to defuse anti-Semitism by undermining the identification of European Jews with Biblical Jews, with the hope of rendering anti-Semitic epithets such as "Christ killer" inapplicable. Ironically, Koestler's thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not Semitic has become an important claim of many anti-Semitic groups.

Some Palestinians have eagerly seized upon this thesis, believing that to identify most Jews as non-Semites seriously undermines their historical claim to the land of Israel. The main thesis of The Thirteenth Tribe has since been disproved by genetic testing. A 2000 study of haplotypes by Hammer et al found that the Y chromosome of most Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews was of Middle Eastern origin, containing mutations that are also common among Palestinians and other Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced primarily to the Middle East.

And his habits:

In November, 1960, Koestler participated in Timothy Leary's early experiments with psilocybin at Harvard. According to fellow participant Charles Olson, Koestler was distressed by the effects of the drug and isolated himself in an unfurnished bedroom in the Cambridge house Leary used for his project. [citation needed] Koestler again experimented with psilocybin at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, comparing this trip to Walt Disney's Fantasia.

Quote by: bob60292 Why don't you read the Talmud, and start a movement to to change the hateful, murderous words that art directed anainst gentiles before you try to explain the existence isolated Jewish communities.

What does one have to do with the other ? What some misinterpreted religious texts has to do with something you should explain if you want to keep your credibility ?

And for god's sake, learn to quote...

[bob60292]

Quote by: Atlas Research shows it is not "some" link, but a proof of genetic ancestry of ancient Hebrews to Jews anywhere, which, I might say, is more relativeness than any nation can achieve to its historic ancestors after 2000 years of living among other nations. I did not use the holocaust to justify anything as much as IDF actions in the Palestinian territories, controversial as they might be, is not a holocaust. Modern day Americans and their ancestors migrated willingly, Jews where forced out of their country by the Romans, if I would accuse any nation of not having any clear national ancestry, the US would be the first one. Some facts about your guy: And his habits: What does one have to do with the other ? What some misinterpreted religious texts has to do with something you should explain if you want to keep your credibility ? And for god's sake, learn to quote...

For god's sake kiss my _ _ s
There you go again. It's not a surprise. It's a typical tactiic . You defame anyone who does not kiss the Zionist _ss. You won;'t accept the truth. You come up with any old phoney Zionist inspired "BS "fact" and BS websites that attempts to justify the murder and thievery of Zionism. Who occupied the "promised land" before the Hebrew people did? Have you discovered that yet? If if the Europan Jew could trace some genetic line back, which he can't, he still wouldn't be entitled to Palestine. Have you discovered how easily your conjured up genetic theory can de disqualitied? Have you considered that the Hebrews were a people who justified their possession of the land through faith in God, while Israel is a secular, socialically oriented, illigitimate, rogue nation. Have you considered that the facts that I mentioned about the Talmud were not taken out of context to the point that the significance was altered?. I would like to limit my discussion of it so as not to conjure up undo resentment.That would defeat the purpose. I don't hate Jews at all. I hate Zionism thoroughly.
Yes, Rome dispelled the Hebrews; but they did so on the basis that the Hebrews wouldn't assimilate or conform. They did not stoop to the bigotry and hatred that is exemplified in the fact that it was an abonimation for a gentile to as much as enter the temple. A jew that touched a dead body was unclean, but a gentile wasn't because he wasn't even considered human. They thought they were a superior race. The Hebrew traditions were so condescending to anyone but themselves that if they would have ever been in a position of power they wouldprobably have created the same kind of slave state that Hitler desired.
I am an AMERICAN of European descent, as most Americans are. I have allegience to one nation, and one nation only, The United States of America. I am not interested in the genetic heritage of my fellow Americans. They are all my brothers and sisters regardless of race as long as they are Americans who do not bastardize their loyalties with any foreign nation or entity. American Jews are a fine people; but Zionists, on the other hand, have deceptively used the issue of race to loot, kill, and destroy. Zionist "are not Americans despite their infiltration into american society.They have chosen not to beamerican whether they admit it or not, just as they have chosen not to assimilate into other cultures.

[rorystokes]

How ironic is it that its a david vs golieth battle?
Israel govts refused to deal with arrafat as if he was the devil time after time
they demanded free & fair elections
When hamas won - they were not a democratic elected govt but a bunch of terrorists

Chevez in venezuala, ortego in nicaragua, deathbed castro & the stolen election in mexico

The vote (thanks to the internet) now actually means something
(as seen this week in the US elections - people can now see first hand how
Israel & the neo conservs can no longer call (think axis of evil) democraticly elected people the enemy anymore

Wolf has been cried once to often (no not wolf blitzer)
FROM NOW ON - SLAUGHTERING CIVILIANS IS GONE
ISRAEL CANNOT MURDER PEOPLE DAILY ANYMORE
HAMAS CONNOT SUICIDE BOMB ANYMORE (they called a stop 2 years ago)
THE IRA HAVE GONE AWAY IN MY COUNTRY
REPLACED BY TALKS & ARMANI SUITS

[Atlas]

Quote by: bob60292 For god's sake kiss my _ _ s There you go again. It's not a surprise. It's a typical tactiic . You defame anyone who does not kiss the Zionist _ss. You won;'t accept the truth.

My comment, which was more of a request, and unlike your continuing insults, had nothing to do with your opinions, you should learn this basic skill for the greater good of those you debate with and against, and stop making such comments for your own good.

Quote by: bob60292 You come up with any old phoney Zionist inspired "BS "fact" and BS websites that attempts to justify the murder and thievery of Zionism. Who occupied the "promised land" before the Hebrew people did? Have you discovered that yet?

Mostly the Canaanites and other nations like the Jebusites, Hittites and Aramites, with periods of Egyptian control.

I think this site should give a basic lesson in history to people like you.

I thought we where debating Jewish connection to the ancient Hebrews, not the origins of the Hebrews themselves, but i could clear that up for you If you like.

Quote by: bob60292 If if the Europan Jew could trace some genetic line back, which he can't, he still wouldn't be entitled to Palestine. Have you discovered how easily your conjured up genetic theory can de disqualitied?

Thats for you to discover if its true (and its not), why should I undermine my own arguments at your request ? I never conjured anything, I merely pointed you to a scientific study rather than to books written by drug users.

Quote by: bob60292 Have you considered that the Hebrews were a people who justified their possession of the land through faith in God, while Israel is a secular, socialically oriented, illigitimate, rogue nation.

Nevertheless, they did possess it for an extended period of time, longer than the Palestinian Arabs I might say, that makes the claim national, not only religious, There never where an Independent state in this region since the destruction of the last Jewish kingdom by the Romans.

Quote by: bob60292 Have you considered that the facts that I mentioned about the Talmud were not taken out of context to the point that the significance was altered?

Even if I did, it has nothing to do with the argument I presented.

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong, there are plenty of clarifications to the Talmud, but I guess you will never bother to read them. I wonder who do you think wrote the Talmud, and when ?

The Real Truth About The Talmud

Quote by: bob60292 I would like to limit my discussion of it so as not to conjure up undo resentment.That would defeat the purpose. I don't hate Jews at all. I hate Zionism thoroughly. Yes, Rome dispelled the Hebrews; but they did so on the basis that the Hebrews wouldn't assimilate or conform. They did not stoop to the bigotry and hatred that is exemplified in the fact that it was an abonimation for a gentile to as much as enter the temple. A jew that touched a dead body was unclean, but a gentile wasn't because he wasn't even considered human.

Where did you see "not considered human" ?

Funny, you start with Hebrews, but you continue with Jews, is this an admition ?

Quote by: bob60292 They thought they were a superior race. The Hebrew traditions were so condescending to anyone but themselves that if they would have ever been in a position of power they wouldprobably have created the same kind of slave state that Hitler desired.

Lets say, after all the facts I presented you with, you still think Jews are Khazars living by Hebrew tradition, then comparing their traditions to Hitler ?!while claiming you don't hate Jews ?!

There's an A class anti-Semitism for you right there ladies & gentlemen.

Quote by: bob60292 I am an AMERICAN of European descent, as most Americans are. I have allegience to one nation, and one nation only, The United States of America. I am not interested in the genetic heritage of my fellow Americans. They are all my brothers and sisters regardless of race as long as they are Americans who do not bastardize their loyalties with any foreign nation or entity. American Jews are a fine people; but Zionists, on the other hand, have deceptively used the issue of race to loot, kill, and destroy. Zionist "are not Americans despite their infiltration into american society.They have chosen not to beamerican whether they admit it or not, just as they have chosen not to assimilate into other cultures.

As I said, the US lacks the most important keystone of being a nation, common ancestry, again, even if you still claim Jews are Khazars it still counts as a common ancestry, therefore they are a nation, and if anything, you all should leave back to Europe or wherever you came from and return the land to the Indians, they where there first ? didn't they ? but I'm way of topic here.

While you brought to this discussion many unrelated facts:

Ancient Hebrew origins
The Talmud
US nationality
Personal insults

You still ignore and evade my arguments:

Scientific proof of the connection between ancient Israelites and modern Jews that disproves the claims in the book by the Hallucinogenic guy.

Existence of Jewish communities in Europe before the existence of the Khazar kingdom.

[Atlas]

Quote by: rorystokes How ironic is it that its a david vs golieth battle? Israel govts refused to deal with arrafat as if he was the devil time after time they demanded free & fair elections When hamas won - they were not a democratic elected govt but a bunch of terrorists

Doesn't always mean David is right, Israel initiated the talks with Arafat in the first place when he was willing to engage in serious negotiations, after his refusal in Camp David he returned to support terrorism and was treated accordingly, The Hamas being elected democratically doesn't change them from being a terrorist organization, they still support and engage in terrorist acts against civilians and openly call for the destruction of Israel, how can you allow yourself to negotiate with someone who calls for your destruction and actively pursuing it in their place ? Terrorists can not hide behind official titles or democratic elections, they are still terrorists.

[bob60292]

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________
RESPONSE TO YOUR NONSENSE
Just as your coment was a suggestion to me, mine was a suggestion to you. It was not an insult. The only different is that it was more for my sake rather than for "god's sake." You are the one deficient in basic skills, not me. You are the one that name calls the expertise of authors that could clarify your misconceptions if you were interested in anything other than Zionist rhetoric.You are the one who smothers reality and ethical considerations for "your own good".You are the one who uses names like" hallucinogenic" and "anti-semite". Ladies and gentleman here is a classic example. Behold the devious Zionist tactics of conjuring up defamation for anyone who does not bow down to the Zionist monster that we have been forced involuntarily to help finance and support. Behold the Zionist mindcontrol , media control, and government infiltration._______________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________




____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________
RESPONSE TO THE NONSENSE
The Hebrew connections to the Hebrews is an important falisy to clear up; but being that you insist on justifying thievery and bigotry on the basis of your" superior " Zionist genes," you needed to be made aware of the fact that those "genes" do not entitle you to what was not yours yesterday,is not yours today, and will never be rightfully yours tomorrow. If calling non Zionists "antisemetic" or "hallucinogetic" is an example of the "basic skill" you seem to think you possess I would suggest you reevaluate your conclusion. If you attempt to disqualify the Palestinian right to be free from Zionist oppression on the basis of ancient Hebrew occupation, you will also have to deal with the fact that the ancient Hebrews were not the first inhabitents either, and that God didn't engrave the word Zionist across the PALESTINIAN HOMELAND.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________
THE NONSENSE


Thats for you to discover if its true (and its not), why should I undermine my own arguments at your request ? I never conjured anything, I merely pointed you to a scientific study rather than to books written by drug users.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________
RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
It wouldn't be the first time you've undermined your own arguments.
Isn't it amazing that your sources are the only :scientific" studies while all the other opposing sources that so many on this forum have pointed out are " hallucinogetic" and "antisemetic".__________________________________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________
THE NONSENSE



Nevertheless, they did possess it for an extended period of time, longer than the Palestinian Arabs I might say, that makes the claim national, not only religious, There never where an Independent state in this region since the destruction of the last Jewish kingdom by the Romans.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
RESPONSE TO THE NONSENSE
That makes the claim that a malconformist network of Zionists of different ethnic backgrounds schemed with the aid of government collusion and infiltration, orchestrated fear, and geopolitic Anglo-American strategy to create a rogue state that displaced a people whose culture has been established for centuries and whose rights and property has been confiscated by Zionists. The fact that the Romans conquered the region is not any more of a justification of Zionist presence than it would be for an Italian takeover. Once again the "basic skill" is found "wanting"
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________.
THE NONSENSE


Even if I did, it has nothing to do with the argument I presented.

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong, there are plenty of clarifications to the Talmud, but I guess you will never bother to read them. I wonder who do you think wrote the Talmud, and when ?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________
RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
I live in a country so infiltrated by Zionist subversives that it would be impossible to not have at least consdered you point of view. It is not your philosophy that is hushed and hidden under the disquise of taboo; it is the UGLY TRUTH of ZIONISM that requires openmindedness and research.
The dates that the different parts of the Talmud was written is not the point. The point is that is is exalted even above the Hebrew scriptures even at this moment.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _____________________
THE NONSENSE

The Real Truth About The Talmud



Where did you see "not considered human" ?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________


RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
Why don't you read it like I did and find out for yourself. "Thats for U for U to discover" as you would say.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________
THE NONSENSE

Funny, you start with Hebrews, but you continue with Jews, is this an admition ?



There's an A class anti-Semitism for you right there ladies & gentlemen.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________
RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
Lets see if you can understand this this time. I am not a lier. I do not hate Jews. I respect real Jews that can understand the Hebrew scriptures, but Jews have a right even to worship their navels if they so choose. I hate Zionists, about as much as you probally hate Palestinians and other gentiles
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________
.THE NONSENSE



As I said, the US lacks the most important keystone of being a nation, common ancestry, again, even if you still claim Jews are Khazars it still counts as a common ancestry, therefore they are a nation, and if anything, you all should leave back to Europe or wherever you came from and return the land to the Indians, they where there first ? didn't they ? but I'm way of topic here.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________
RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
I suppose you suggest that the Native Americans return to Asia or wherever they came from.Once again your conclusion is found "wanting'".
Europeans immigrated to America and became Americans, as brothers and sisters of ALL RACES IN SPITE OF A DEGREE OF ETHNIC RESENTMENT, and racism FOM TIME TO TIME. Any living, breathing citizen regardless of race, creed, or origin who is loyal to our constitutional republic is an American. Zionism is a socialist theocracy, a democracy only for Zionist Jews who have deceptively used biblical justification to justify a rogue state.
Go back and read what I sail about this. Try to understand what it says this time. Comprehension is a " basic skill".
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________
THE NONSENSE

While you brought to this discussion many unrelated facts:

Ancient Hebrew origins
The Talmud
US nationality
Personal insults

You still ignore and evade my arguments:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________
RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
I've simply exposed the horrors of Zionism in ways that you would have preferred to hide. You, by the way, have called Judaism a nationality which it is not. You have denied the content of the Talmud and its relation to a separate identity.You have attempted to strip Americans of rightful identity on the basis of fascist genetic disqualification; and you have even stooped to such name calling as "hallucinogetic"and " antisemitic". And to what dubious distinction do we owe these "lovely" adjectives--obviously one only need not be a Zionist.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________
THE NONSENSE

Scientific proof of the connection between ancient Israelites and modern Jews that disproves the claims in the book by the Hallucinogenic guy.

Existence of Jewish communities in Europe before the existence of the Khazar kingdom.[/quote]
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________
RESPONSE TO NONSENSE
There are Arab communities in Austria, but that doesn't make austrianns Arabs. Checkmate, your "basic skills" are wanting again monsignor

[shrike]

Please learn to use the quote function!!!

[Matt W]

Seconded. I have not the faintest idea who you are responding to or what, if anything, you are trying to say!

[bob60292]

Quote by: shrike Please learn to use the quote function!!!

No problem Shrilke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Atlas]

Quote by: bob60292 Just as your coment was a suggestion to me, mine was a suggestion to you. It was not an insult. The only different is that it was more for my sake rather than for "god's sake." You are the one deficient in basic skills, not me.

Mine was of constructive criticism on your posting method, while yours is a cynical remark, unless me physically kissing your ass has a point to your argument it is an insult. For starters, I know how to quote and post correctly.

Quote by: bob60292 You are the one that name calls the expertise of authors that could clarify your misconceptions if you were interested in anything other than Zionist rhetoric.

I merely stated facts in a humorous way, fact is he used hallucinogenic drugs, and that could definitely argue his credibility, by the way, as I presented above, Arthur Koestler was a Zionist himself, and lived in Israel for some time.

Quote by: bob60292 You are the one who smothers reality and ethical considerations for "your own good".

I thought that what debating was all about, don't get angry at me just because you can't present your own reality in a positive way for others.

Quote by: bob60292 You are the one who uses names like" hallucinogenic" and "anti-semite". Ladies and gentleman here is a classic example.

Comparing Jewish religious traditions to Hitler's regime is anti-Semitism, as much as you would like to hide it, as for hallucinogenic, see above.

Quote by: bob60292 Behold the devious Zionist tactics of conjuring up defamation for anyone who does not bow down to the Zionist monster that we have been forced involuntarily to help finance and support. Behold the Zionist mindcontrol , media control, and government infiltration.

Your words are hollow and are based on your blind hatred toward Zionism rather than on any facts you may or may not possess, so far your only source, "The thirteenth tribe" by Arthur Koestler, was discredited by people who know a little more about genetics than me, you or himself.

Quote by: bob60292 The Hebrew connections to the Hebrews is an important falisy to clear up; but being that you insist on justifying thievery and bigotry on the basis of your" superior " Zionist genes," you needed to be made aware of the fact that those "genes" do not entitle you to what was not yours yesterday,is not yours today, and will never be rightfully yours tomorrow.

First you claim Jews aren't a nation at all, now you're saying Zionists have their own genes ? and that they consider themselves superior ? or you claim that I have said all those things ? Zionism is nothing more than the definition of a national Jewish movement, which was a natural reaction for the persecution of Jews everywhere, that reached its peak in the holocaust.

Quote by: bob60292 If calling non Zionists "antisemetic" or "hallucinogetic" is an example of the "basic skill" you seem to think you possess I would suggest you reevaluate your conclusion.

Who said anything about "basic skill" regarding to that ? I was clearly referring only to your inability to quote, again you put words in my mouth, anti-Zionists have the right to object to it, but saying Hebrew traditions would lead to Nazism is a comment you made unrelated to Zionism, this comment pretty much reveals your anti-Semite views, cleverly masked behind anti-Zionism

Quote by: bob60292 If you attempt to disqualify the Palestinian right to be free from Zionist oppression on the basis of ancient Hebrew occupation, you will also have to deal with the fact that the ancient Hebrews were not the first inhabitents either, and that God didn't engrave the word Zionist across the PALESTINIAN HOMELAND.

First of all, I did not attempt to disqualify anything, Secondly, Hebrews where the only inhabitants of the land and had an independent kingdom on its territory for hundreds of years, long before the name "Palestine" itself was even invented, this was not a brief occupation, they where not there first, but the fact that they where there the longest (way before the Palestinians), the fact they survived as a nation throughout history until this day and that they did not settle in any new geographically defined area, all that makes their claim legitimate.

Figures, you fail to answer my arguments about the connection of modern Jews to ancient Hebrews, so now you attempt to question the Hebrew presence there.

Quote by: bob60292 It wouldn't be the first time you've undermined your own arguments.

Where ?

Quote by: bob60292 Isn't it amazing that your sources are the only :scientific" studies while all the other opposing sources that so many on this forum have pointed out are " hallucinogetic" and "antisemetic".

Because it is scientific, an empirical test with empirical results done by professional scientists, all that you have given me as opposition was one book that was disproved by those very tests and pages upon pages of your own personal views and assumptions, debating is about presenting facts, so I ask you once again, back your word with a little more than one book if you want to keep your credibility.

Quote by: bob60292 That makes the claim that a malconformist network of Zionists of different ethnic backgrounds schemed with the aid of government collusion and infiltration, orchestrated fear, and geopolitic Anglo-American strategy to create a rogue state that displaced a people whose culture has been established for centuries and whose rights and property has been confiscated by Zionists.

Again, your unsupported "colony theory", why don't you learn history instead of making it up ?

The crushing majority of Jews, whether they live in Israel or not, support the existence of Israel and consider it to be their national home, therefore are consider themselves Zionists, this is not some secret elitist group, but the way of an entire nation.

Quote by: bob60292 The fact that the Romans conquered the region is not any more of a justification of Zionist presence than it would be for an Italian takeover. Once again the "basic skill" is found "wanting"

Romans ruled the land for 500 years, Hebrews ( and eventually Jews, the remnants of the greater nation of Israel, as it is historically proved) lived there as an independent majority for nearly 1500 years.

[Atlas]

Quote by: bob60292 I live in a country so infiltrated by Zionist subversives that it would be impossible to not have at least considered you point of view. It is not your philosophy that is hushed and hidden under the disquise of taboo; it is the UGLY TRUTH of ZIONISM that requires openmindedness and research.

The Talmud has nothing to do with Zionism, one is an ancient religious text and the other is a modern national idea, attacking the Talmud is also attacking the minority of non-Zionist Jews, the ones you refer to as "decent citizens of the US", and is another prove of your disguised anti-Semitism.

Quote by: bob60292 The dates that the different parts of the Talmud was written is not the point.

It is very much the point, since the significant parts of the Talmud where written after the destruction of Judea by Romans and the exile that followed it, and before the foundation of the Khazar kingdom, here I give you an example of how your irrelevant reference to the Talmud ends up undermining your own arguments.

Quote by: bob60292 The point is that is is exalted even above the Hebrew scriptures even at this moment.

In the Jewish faith, as far as I know, the Talmud does not contradict the ancient bible, it only explains and completes it, another example of your ignorance in the matter.