Why should I take sides…

[PatrickHenry]

OK. Grandpa, here's why you should take sides.

Israel is a warmongering nation, commited to ethnic cleansing against those who hold titles to their own land. They have illegally occupied areas not belonging to them for decades while killing and humiliating the Palestinian Arabs. They are proxies of a project for world domination headquartered in the US, specifically Washington, DC. and New York City. US foreign policy elites are the leaders of this plan, but it does not benefit the people of the US. Rather they are cynically used to fund this project while being lied to by Israeli dominated media.

You should take the side of justice, which is the Arab side. You should take the side of financial self-interest, which would restrain the use of US troops for designs which don't help the US whatsoever. Your financial self-interest would also tell you to refuse to give away money and expensive armaments to Israel. Their interests are not your interests.

Israel is also a liar who never acts in good faith. You should take sides against such deceit. Bad faith and the destruction of Palestine

In other words, why believe Israel is simply lashing out when it commits a war crime rather than committing it after careful advance planning? Is it not possible that such war crimes, rather than being spontaneous and random, are actually all pushing in the same direction? More especially, why should we give Israel the benefit of the doubt when its war crimes contribute, as the bombing of the power station in Gaza surely does, to easily deciphered objectives? Why not think of the bombing instead as one instalment in a long-running and slowly unfolding plan? The occupation of Gaza did not begin this year, after Hamas was elected, nor did it end with the disengagement a year ago. The occupation is four decades old and still going strong in both the West Bank and Gaza. In that time Israel has followed a consistent policy of subjugating the Palestinian population, imprisoning it inside ever-shrinking ghettos, sealing it off from contact with the outside world, and destroying its chances of ever developing an independent economy. Since the outbreak six years ago of the second intifada -- the Palestinians’ uprising against the occupation -- Israel has tightened its system of controls. It has sought to do so through two parallel, reinforcing approaches. First, it has imposed forms of collective punishment to weaken Palestinian resolve to resist the occupation, and encourage factionalism and civil war. Second, it has “domesticated” suffering inside the ghettos, ensuring each Palestinian finds himself isolated from his neighbours, his concerns reduced to the domestic level: how to receive a house permit, or get past the wall to school or university, or visit a relative illegally imprisoned in Israel, or stop yet more family land being stolen, or reach his olive groves. The goals of both sets of policies, however, are the same: the erosion of Palestinian society’s cohesiveness, the disruption of efforts at solidarity and resistance, and ultimately the slow drift of Palestinians away from vulnerable rural areas into the relative safety of urban centres -- and eventually, as the pressure continues to mount, on into neighbouring Arab states, such as Jordan and Egypt. Seen in this light, the bombing of the Gaza power station fits neatly into Israel’s long-standing plans for the Palestinians.

[kalel29]

The problem is that since the state of Israel was created in 1948, nothing but trouble has happened. Both sides are guilty of atrocities. However, Israel has never wanted to annihilate another nation. In fact, Israel once offered to recognize Palestine as a state, but Arafat said no. I see no let up in the MidEast violence, as that part of the world has always been that way.

[shrike]

Quote by: PH Sure, and that's why the Palestinian legislature is in Israeli dungeons without formal charges. The tyrannical face of the Israeli monster

I didn't know that in US you should get indictment right away. There were brought to Judge that prolonged their arrest. And of course all the Palestinian terrorists are allowed to see representatives from Red Cross contrary to the kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike I didn't know that in US you should get indictment right away. There were brought to Judge that prolonged their arrest.

If people are going to be arrested, then indeed they should be made aware of the charges. I don't think that is merely a US thing, either.

Grandpah.

[shrike]

If people are going to be arrested, then indeed they should be made aware of the charges. I don't think that is merely a US thing, either

Well there are. There were arrested on charge: Membership in terrorist organization

[PatrickHenry]

Heh. The elected legislature of another people! I hereby declare the Israeli government a terrorist organization. Members of the Knesset must be siezed and held for their membership.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike Well there are. There were arrested on charge: Membership in terrorist organization

Has evidence been presented? If there hasn't been evidence or a trial, then those arrested are victims.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

Quote by: ph Heh. The elected legislature of another people! I hereby declare the Israeli government a terrorist organization. Members of the Knesset must be siezed and held for their membership.

Hamas are recognized as terrorist organization by US and EU.

Quote by: granda Has evidence been presented? If there hasn't been evidence or a trial, then those arrested are victims.

Like I said there is a time between trial, indictment and arrest. There were arrested being members of terrorist organization. And they don't deny it themselves that they members of hamas,

[PatrickHenry]

And Israel is recognized as a terrorist nation by the rest of the WORLD!

[shrike]

And Israel is recognized as a terrorist nation by the rest of the WORLD!

Well NK,Cuba and other totalitarian states that you so much admire is not the rest of the world. I know that you wish it will be that way.

[GHook93]

Pat,

I can see you in a room with your head shaved screaming, "WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER."

You have a rant on Blacks being sent back to Africa also!

Quote by: PatrickHenry OK. Grandpa, here's why you should take sides. Israel is a warmongering nation, commited to ethnic cleansing against those who hold titles to their own land. They have illegally occupied areas not belonging to them for decades while killing and humiliating the Palestinian Arabs. They are proxies of a project for world domination headquartered in the US, specifically Washington, DC. and New York City. US foreign policy elites are the leaders of this plan, but it does not benefit the people of the US. Rather they are cynically used to fund this project while being lied to by Israeli dominated media. You should take the side of justice, which is the Arab side. You should take the side of financial self-interest, which would restrain the use of US troops for designs which don't help the US whatsoever. Your financial self-interest would also tell you to refuse to give away money and expensive armaments to Israel. Their interests are not your interests. Israel is also a liar who never acts in good faith. You should take sides against such deceit. Bad faith and the destruction of Palestine

[PatrickHenry]

Your false personal accusations mark you as a dishonest debater, GHook.

My race preferences are likely more liberal than yours. Go back to your drawing board.

Quote by: shrike Well NK,Cuba and other totalitarian states that you so much admire is not the rest of the world. I know that you wish it will be that way.

You offer no evidence of your false personal accusations, shrike. I term you a liar about me personally. And a defender of a terrorist nation. I guess that makes you a terrorist too.

A lying terrorist.

[shrike]

You offer no evidence of your false personal accusations, shrike. I term you a liar about me personally. And a defender of a terrorist nation. I guess that makes you a terrorist too

.

Ok prove that is not so. What states think that Israel is terrorist state? According to your theory it must be rest of the world except US and EU .About 160 countries. I will wait for you prove about each one of this countries .I hope you got it.

A lying terrorist

.
Be careful about personal attacks

[GHook93]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Your false personal accusations mark you as a dishonest debater, GHook. .

Calm down, I just figured I would mess with you after such a heated rant. It just sounded like a paranoid rant out of Jerry Fletcher (Mel Gibson's character in Conspiracy Theory).

What can I say its a slow day at the office!

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: GHook93 Calm down, I just figured I would mess with you after such a heated rant. It just sounded like a paranoid rant out of Jerry Fletcher (Mel Gibson's character in Conspiracy Theory). What can I say its a slow day at the office!

Hmm. The title of the thread is "Why should I take sides?" I was giving my opinions regarding why we should choose the side of the Arabs and against the well-armed Israeli killers.

shrike, personal attacks? So sensitive for a guy who lies about another debater's views and produces no evidence for the lie. And when a person defends a terrorist nation, I must assume they find THAT nation's terror acceptable. So for you, Israeli terror must be transfomed into something defensible, huh? Can't just admit that your nation has the power to kill and destroy and use it whenever you want. And anyone who objects is antiSemitic.:rolleyes:

I will prove Israel is a terrorist nation AFTER you prove your allegation that I support totalitarianism. Good luck.

[shrike]

Quote by: PH shrike, personal attacks? So sensitive for a guy who lies about another debater's views and produces no evidence for the lie. And when a person defends a terrorist nation, I must assume they find THAT nation's terror acceptable

You argument is void because Israel is not terrorist nation.

shrike, personal attacks? So sensitive for a guy who lies about another debater's views and produces no evidence for the lie

Well it seem so. You prefer to criticize Israel that any other country in the world. How many posts you did about Israel comparing to other countries. So if you not criticize them you must admire them?

So for you, Israeli terror must be transfomed into something defensible, huh? Can't just admit that your nation has the power to kill and destroy and use it whenever you want.

Like any other powerful nation in the world.

And anyone who objects is antiSemitic

Anyone who objects what? Anyway it seems to that is just another straw man.

I will prove Israel is a terrorist nation AFTER you prove your allegation that I support totalitarianism. Good luck.

You claimed first that "And Israel is recognized as a terrorist nation by the rest of the WORLD" So you should prove that. About one and each country around the world except US and EU.

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike You argument is void because Israel is not terrorist nation.

Israel regularly punishes large groups of people for the actions of a few. Not only could that be described as unfair, but terroristic.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

Israel regularly punishes large groups of people for the actions of a few. Not only could that be described as unfair, but terroristic

Israel didn't punishing anyone on purpose .It takes nesccacry means for self defense that could bring suffer to innocents from attacking nation but there is no other way. There is no magic that can effectively tell who terrorist and who is not.

[GHook93]

Quote by: grandpa Israel regularly punishes large groups of people for the actions of a few. Not only could that be described as unfair, but terroristic. Grandpa h.

The Palestinians regularly attack innocent civilians!

Israel is will to negotiate a Palestinian state! Abbas is willing to negotiate peave. Hamas, much like Arafat, wants and needs the fight; otherwise, they become a non-entity with an extinct ideology.

Simply phrase Quoted from Bill Maher, for the libels:

"When the Jews didn't fight back in WW II, we said we couldn't understand why, but now the Jews/Israelis are standing up and fighting and we condemn them."

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 The Palestinians regularly attack innocent civilians! Israel is will to negotiate a Palestinian state!

Yes, some Palestinians do terrible things.
But there are plenty of Palestinian men, women and
children kidnapped by Israel and held hostage in Israeli prisons
without even any charges levied against them.
And plenty of Palestinians are living in extreme poverty and getting attacked and bulldozed in their homes. How do you expect them to react?

Grandpa h.