U.S. Terror Targets: Petting Zoo and Flea Market?

[RickSp]

I guess I can understand why the homeland security funding for New York and Washington DC was recently cut by 40%. It seems that the real targets of terror are in Indiana and Wisconsin at least if you believe the Department of Homeland Security's National Asset Database, which identifies possible terrorist targets.

Among possible terror targets in Indiana is Amish Country Popcorn, whereas Times Square, in the heart of New York City, is not listed at all. The database also includes an insect zoo, but not the Statue of Liberty. Montana and Nebraska, with among with the lowest population densities of any states in the country each have more terroristst targets listed than New Jersey, the state with the highest population density.

U.S. Terror Targets: Petting Zoo and Flea Market?

It reads like a tally of terrorist targets that a child might have written: Old MacDonald’s Petting Zoo, the Amish Country Popcorn factory, the Mule Day Parade, the Sweetwater Flea Market and an unspecified “Beach at End of a Street.” But the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, in a report released Tuesday, found that the list was not child’s play: all these “unusual or out-of-place” sites “whose criticality is not readily apparent” are inexplicably included in the federal antiterrorism database. In addition to the petting zoo, in Woodville, Ala., and the Mule Day Parade in Columbia, Tenn., the auditors questioned many entries, including “Nix’s Check Cashing,” “Mall at Sears,” “Ice Cream Parlor,” “Tackle Shop,” “Donut Shop,” “Anti-Cruelty Society” and “Bean Fest.” The National Asset Database, as it is known, is so flawed, the inspector general found, that as of January, Indiana, with 8,591 potential terrorist targets, had 50 percent more listed sites than New York (5,687) and more than twice as many as California (3,212), ranking the state the most target-rich place in the nation. The database is used by the Homeland Security Department to help divvy up the hundreds of millions of dollars in antiterrorism grants each year, including the program announced in May that cut money to New York City and Washington by 40 percent, while significantly increasing spending for cities including Louisville, Ky., and Omaha. “We don’t find it embarrassing,” said the department’s deputy press secretary, Jarrod Agen. “The list is a valuable tool.”

May all our enemies be as inept and clueless as those who claim to be trying to protect us.

[bishop]

article

Watchdog report supports New York, D.C.'s anger over funding cutbacks WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Homeland Security database of vulnerable terror targets in the United States, which includes an insect zoo but not the Statue of Liberty, is too flawed to determine allocation of federal security funds, the department's internal watchdog found. Much of the study by Homeland Security Inspector General Richard Skinner appears to have been done before the department announced in May it would cut security grants to New York and Washington by 40 percent this year. The report, which was released Tuesday, affirmed the fury of those two cities -- the two targets of the September 11, 2001, attacks -- which claimed the department did not accurately assess their risks. Instead, the department's database of vulnerable critical infrastructure and key resources included an insect zoo, a bourbon festival, a bean fest and a kangaroo conservation center. They represent examples of key assets identified in Florida, Illinois, Indiana, and Maryland. The database "is not an accurate representation of the nations C.I.K.R. [critical infrastructure and key resources]," inspectors said. Also, the database "is not yet comprehensive enough to support the management and resource allocation decision-making envisioned by the National Infrastructure Protection Plan." The report noted that Indiana has 8,591 assets listed in the database -- more than any other state and 50 percent more than New York. New York had 5,687 listed. It did not detail which ones, but the Homeland Security assessment of New York this year failed to include Times Square, the Empire State Building, the Brooklyn Bridge or the Statue of Liberty as a national icon or monument. A Homeland Security spokesman did not return a call or e-mail for comment Tuesday night. But in an April 13 response to a draft of the report, department Undersecretary George Foresman said the database represented a range of national assets that could face different levels of threats at different times. The data "have been and are currently being utilized to support allocation decision-making processes for the department," wrote Foresman, who oversees the database and the grant funds. Part of the problem lies in what inspectors noted were "quirky totals" by states that submitted lists of vulnerable assets. The database does not rank the assets it tracks by perceived threats and consequences they face, the report found. An earlier attempt to do so with 1,849 assets "was unreliable."

great product of federal bureaucracy here... how many billions in taxpayer dollars has been pissed away on this incompetent department? it shocks the senses to know that places like the empire state building or the statue of liberty weren't even included in the department's assessment..

[RickSp]

Not to putt too fine a point on it, but I beat you to this one by about an hour and a half.

[bishop]

heh... right on..

[bishop]

these kinds of stories make me want to bash my head/fist through a wall... can they possibly be any more incompetent than they already are??? goddamn imbeciles..

even better that this database excludes places like the empire state building, brooklyn bridge, statue of liberty, etc.. they don't matter - but that damn popcorn factory is always being scouted by terrorists...

*slaps head in disbelief*

[RickSp]

No big deal. I just thought that I was seeing double.

[RickSp]

Since the list is allegedly used to help determine funding, it is doubly maddening.

It reminds me of the brilliance shown by the Carter administration during the first energy crisis. They decided that the government knew best and allocated gaosline supplies based on almost a decade old census data. Places that had grown in the past ten years, had severe gas shortages whereas areas that had lost population had large excesses.

Wasn't someone arguing that the government always knows best?

[bishop]

several people frequently push the "government knows best" line...

seems that everyone's asleep at the wheel.. our bureaucrats are arguing over how to best protect flea markets in middleofnowhere, iowa - while places like time square aren't even included in this database.. and in congress, they're just wrapping up their all-important debate over online gambling..

if we're ever attacked again, i hope those islamoshits do us the favor of removing these turds from office. that's a much better alternative to having innocent civilians die for the government's incompetence. (i'm once again reminded of the bomb scare we had here last week.)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197776,00.html

WASHINGTON — Facing scathing criticism over reduced anti-terror grants for Washington, D.C., and New York City, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff on Thursday defended his department's handling of the funding saying the program is designed to avoid political influence in favor of reducing the threat of terrorism. "I would hate to see us get to the point that we are ... so driven by the need to respond to pressure from people — who may honestly be disappointed — that we can't make decisions that are based on risk funding. It's not going to be enough for a community to say, 'We're the No. 1 risk, give us money,'" Chertoff said.

talk about having your head up your ass... what does nyc have to do, exactly, to prove that it IS the #1 risk??? cutting their funding and giving funding to some popcorn museaum (amongst other equally worthless places) is evidence that our government is run by people with down syndrome..

hell.. that isn't fair.. i'd bet even corky could do a better job than these fools.

[Milton Bradley]

With the significant number of people believing that all Homeland Security dollars should rightly be spent in New York, it almost makes me think that this is the supposed payoff for the 9/11 "exercise", and the reward for burrying of the real truth. Eh, but I bet Rudy, and Co were rewarded handsomely.


I know you didn't want to hear that, but I said it anyway.

Quote by: thought bubble from Rick's unspoken thoughts New York City is the center of the Universe, and should be recognised by all the unwashed hourds that real terrorists would only want to attack the symbols of America, and therefore, New York.

I guess it's just really hard to buy the stories built upon the weak foundation that those stories are constructed upon. You need a good solid foundation if you are going to consrtuct an enormous...wait, I don't need to tell Rick the Engineer about constuction priciples, do I.

[bishop]

who ever said that ALL of the money should be spent in nyc?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: bishop who ever said that ALL of the money should be spent in nyc?

Uh, isn't he upset about the loss of DHS money going to "protect" places other than NYC?


What we really ought to be protecting is the nations breadbasket, where we grow all of our food, but I guess thats not iconic enough, or the population density doesn't warrant it in some peoples view.


Guess what, the folks in Washington made us all targets.

[bishop]

reading rick's post, i saw no inference that he suggested we send all dhs money to nyc... you are distorting his post in your petty personal attack imo...

it seems reasonable to me to defend the country's food supplies, as difficult/impossible as that may be.. we should at least attempt to do so however.. flea markets out in bumblefuck aren't the most vital concerns though.. attacks that could kill hundreds/thousands at once, or affect vital national interests (such as food, water, ports, etc.) should be defended...

the real issue here isn't your tirade against rick.. it's the incompetence of the government to accurately assets potential targets and appropriately allocate resources to defend them.

[RickSp]

Milton, if you want to insult me do it by PM. Otherwise don't waste the bandwidth.

And nobody but you ever said that all the homeland defense money should go to New York or Washington, so spare us the strawman bullshit.

Quote by: Milton Bradley What we really ought to be protecting is the nations breadbasket, where we grow all of our food, but I guess thats not iconic enough, or the population density doesn't warrant it in some peoples view.

Are you trying to get a job with the Department of Homeland Security? Suggesting that protecting cornfields matters more than protecting actual terrorist targets is just about idiotic enough to get you a job with those folks.

[Chris]

File this under WTF!!! Indiana!>!>!???

[bishop]

Quote by: ricksp Are you trying to get a job with the Department of Homeland Security? Suggesting that protecting cornfields matters more than protecting actual terrorist targets is just about idiotic enough to get you a job with those folks.

understanding terrorist psychology based on their past behavior, it seems clear to me that they heavily prefer the big flashy events rather than more subtle ones like poisoning foodstocks.. after all, it has to spur big flashy headlines on the major media networks.. certainly we shouldn't ignore protecting our vital food supplies, but it's infinately more likely that terrorists will strike heavily populated/travelled areas.. it's also much more likely based on past events that terrorists have an act for blowing stuff up, as opposed to chemical/biological warfare (if they even have such capabilities)..

here are some of the items included on dhs's list of potential targets in need of security financing:

an insect zoo
a bourbon festival
a bean fest
kangaroo conservation center

here are some that don't deserve security financing according to the dhs:

the brooklyn bridge
the empire state building
the statue of liberty
time square


this is as nonpartisan as it gets here.. even bushbots would agree that this is just utter nonsense, and the people responsible for these decisions need a lot more than a foot in their asses (although that'll be a nice start)..

i doubt terrorists even know about these worthless places/events like the insect zoo.. they sure as hell know where nyc is though, including its subways, big skyscrapers, financial centers, etc..

[rmnunez]

Did any of you ever consider the possibility this is disinformation? Do you think the US would knowingly provide critical lefties and Islamic fundamentalist alike with a detailed list prioritizing their most precious targets?

[RickSp]

Quote by: rmnunez Did any of you ever consider the possibility this is disinformation? Do you think the US would knowingly provide critical lefties and Islamic fundamentalist alike with a detailed list prioritizing their most precious targets?

That would require a level of sophistication and competence far beyond the capacity of the Department of Homeland Security. And what makes you think the terroristst are stupid enough to think an insect zoo is a reasonable target?

As an "uncritical righty" you are missing the whole point of the list, which is to be used internally within the bureaucracy to determine threats and the level of funding to meet those threats. The details of the list only came to light after the Inspector General determined that is was useless nonsense. Which won't stop the DHS from using it.

[Chris]

the DHS has been a huge waste. What has it done since its inception? What good has it done, what has it done for me for us?

Anyone?

[bishop]

Quote by: rmnunez Did any of you ever consider the possibility this is disinformation? Do you think the US would knowingly provide critical lefties and Islamic fundamentalist alike with a detailed list prioritizing their most precious targets?

did you ever consider that much of this is public information?

like this.


as if terrorists somehow knew about the insect farm in bumblefuck, but didn't know about the empire state building... they're crazy fuckers, but they aren't stupid (probably much more intelligent than most americans imo).

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: |Chris| the DHS has been a huge waste. What has it done since its inception? What good has it done, what has it done for me for us? Anyone?

It has kept many people fearful on purpose. If the people are afraid they are weak. They will not organize against an authoritarian, they will blindly trust that the government has the public safety at heart. Terrorism has been promoted and if they do not capture the boogeyman, he is our true ruler. But we have the mob to protect us. The only price? We surrender our Rights and dont complain.