Pride in Ameirca.

[Jack]

I was born an American and born into my family. I had no choice in either matter. I am very proud of some of the things both my country of birth and my family have done. I am not proud of everything either has done. I appreciate them both, but I do not blindly approve of everything either has accomplished.

[Osborn F Enready]

Aye Isherwood, and I agree. BLIND faith in anything, is always a mistake if it involves any aspect of mankind.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Nihsnek So your telling me, that when we entered Iraq there was not ONE USABLE WMD. Ok, well, deny it all you want.

They still haven't found any that are in usable condition. Regardless, Bush and Cheney still lied when they said Saddam had viable WMDs (we have found exactly zero), was going to use them (how can he use them when they are so incredibly well hidden that after 4 years, we still can't find them?) and they knew EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE. If they knew where they were, why can't we find them?

So yes, I'll deny it because there isn't a damn shred of evidence whatsoever to support the claims of the Bush administration. Prove me wrong.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Cephus They still haven't found any that are in usable condition. Regardless, Bush and Cheney still lied when they said Saddam had viable WMDs (we have found exactly zero), was going to use them (how can he use them when they are so incredibly well hidden that after 4 years, we still can't find them?) and they knew EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE.

Any questions, Bush supporters? You just pretty much nailedi t on the head, cephus.
It's going to be tough for them to answer these points.

The choice for them seems to be: Admit being wrong or resort to insulting someone's patriotism (like that even matters).
It's an ease of use thing and namecalling is the easier path.
Either that or they'll take us back to that sad September day to justify creating sad days of our own.

Grandpa h.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: grandpa Quote by: Cephus They still haven't found any that are in usable condition. Regardless, Bush and Cheney still lied when they said Saddam had viable WMDs (we have found exactly zero), was going to use them (how can he use them when they are so incredibly well hidden that after 4 years, we still can't find them?) and they knew EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE. Any questions, Bush supporters? You just pretty much nailedi t on the head, cephus. It's going to be tough for them to answer these points. The choice for them seems to be: Admit being wrong or resort to insulting someone's patriotism (like that even matters). It's an ease of use thing and namecalling is the easier path. Either that or they'll take us back to that sad September day to justify creating sad days of our own. Grandpa h.

Everything is in usable condition, why do you think people evacuate large areas in Europe when they come across old stuff?

Plus we get back to Saddam attempting to assassinate an American President and paying the families of Terrorist $25,000 to blow themselves up in Israel.

I could go on and on and on with the facts, but you guys want to rant IMO, facts be damned.

What, that was found in the sand of Iraq? Can't have been any more WMD, though Clinton said Saddam had them as well.

There were also lots of people in Saddam's government who have come forward to say many things were transported to Syria while we were played by long term stalling by France, Germany and Russia.
For the particulars of that, go search in the INTERNET for the names and stories. It is also common knowledge.

[Clarence]

Quote by: GodBlessMyself Plus we get back to Saddam attempting to assassinate an American President and paying the families of Terrorist $25,000 to blow themselves up in Israel.

If these were the reasons for war, why weren't they stated as the reasons for war in the leadup? apologize elsewhere.

I like what Ish said...

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: Clarence Quote by: GodBlessMyself Plus we get back to Saddam attempting to assassinate an American President and paying the families of Terrorist $25,000 to blow themselves up in Israel. If these were the reasons for war, why weren't they stated as the reasons for war in the leadup? apologize elsewhere. I like what Ish said...

During the years following Bush #1, Clinton was a fairly worthless disaster on the international scene for us.
He did nothing in response to dead USA military being dragged in the streets on TV for the world to see. (Mogadishu)
He didn't even do anything except for bomb an aspirin factory in Iraq after Saddam tried to kill an ex President.
Later Mr. Clinton went so far with Al Gore as to allow a transfer of technology to China that fixed their ailing ballistic missile program and even managed to give China new missile guidance technology for the enhanced rockets so for the first time China could bomb EVERY city on the continental USA which before Clinton they could NOT DO! (Loral)

Then Bush 2 came into office and he went to the UN over all the bad things Saddam was doing, including financing terror in Israel and for the first time shooting at the USA military patrolling over the no fly zone.
He was stalled for 11 months by France, Germany and Russia who all were found to be doing back door deals with Saddam and Iraq against sanctions.

Some of Saddam's military leaders and politicians verified that there were other WMD that were moved before the military invasion. (While under supposed sanctions)

When you have some time, go to the net and read in the news about these various topics. Granted the main stream press is full of leftists and they don't go out of their way to broadcast these things, but you can find them on the net from reliable sources.

[underbear1]

Proud? I'm embarressed by what this administration has done to America in just 5 years, it's become a friggin Theocracy.

Jesus, save me from your followers!

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 Proud? I'm embarressed by what this administration has done to America in just 5 years, it's become a friggin Theocracy. Jesus, save me from your followers!

Give us examples of what you mean by a Theocracy, because you can't mention God in schools or allow the word God in many government public places.
Though the Constitution is bent a bit to make laws more applicable to the twenty first century, that is the law of the land and not the Bible.
Most of the education system is full of liberals, which are no fans of God, and there is all this gay tolerance training some of which has included gays teaching fisting and other such things to kids in school at times. Doesn't seem of God to me either.

Thou shall not covet thy neighbors goods!!!!
That is a Commandment of God (one of the ten) but we are still trying to tax one class of people over another in class warfare, that doesn't sound like a Theocracy either!

What are some of your exact examples?

[underbear1]

They have gutted 1/3rd of Ryan White Funds and given needed resources for people with AIDS to know-NUTHING faith-based groups with absolutely NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE in medicine, science, and sure as hell never dealt with a sexually transmitted pandemic. This is how they BOUGHT African American evangelical votes.

[underbear1]

The anti-gay marriage amendments are also a LOVELY little gift from the faith-based as*wipes, using their religion to decide who I can and can not live with in a equal relationship (with the same responsibilities and benefits), that Britney Spears qualifies for and ends it in a couple of days.

These same theocrats will overturn Roe vs. Wade soon, and couldn't wait to stick their holier-than-thou noses into a husband and wife's decision about end of life,(Terri Schaivo) You might have noticed when they attempted to put Harriet Meirs on the Supreme Court, it was the Christian Reich, who insisted she be dumped....throw Momma from the train........all because they weren't ABSOLUTELY certain she'd vote their way on ALL rulings..........like Scalito will.

[underbear1]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica Quote by: underbear1 Proud? I'm embarressed by what this administration has done to America in just 5 years, it's become a friggin Theocracy. Jesus, save me from your followers! Give us examples of what you mean by a Theocracy, because you can't mention God in schools or allow the word God in many government public places.Though the Constitution is bent a bit to make laws more applicable to the twenty first century, that is the law of the land and not the Bible. Most of the education system is full of liberals, which are no fans of God, and there is all this gay tolerance training some of which has included gays teaching fisting and other such things to kids in school at times. Doesn't seem of God to me either. Thou shall not covet thy neighbors goods!!!! That is a Commandment of God (one of the ten) but we are still trying to tax one class of people over another in class warfare, that doesn't sound like a Theocracy either! What are some of your exact examples?

Yeah, it's really sad now that school children don't recite the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE anymore... :rolleyes:


I'd like you to prove that ANY school system is teaching fisting, give the names of the schools.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 They have gutted 1/3rd of Ryan White Funds and given needed resources for people with AIDS to know-NUTHING faith-based groups with absolutely NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE in medicine, science, and sure as hell never dealt with a sexually transmitted pandemic. This is how they BOUGHT African American evangelical votes.

They don't run the government through faith based groups and in the past there was no tolerance for faith based groups regarding grants when they do lots of good with the least amount of money.

Now being it's been decades since people blamed Reagan for AIDS (LOL), how come there are new cases at all in the gay community since then?
Aren't they all educated now and smart regarding safe sex and not doing anything to cause themselves to catch the virus? How is it possible new cases are forming?

As far as needles for drug users. Sounds good, but if they are tweakers, they are out of their head already and will always take what is at hand which means they will still share needles anyway. I'm not saying they can't maybe get some free new ones from the health department in various locations if that is needed, but I don't see it doing much of a dent.
If anyone thought it was a real life saver down the line, there would be charity dinners in the private sector and one of their dinners alone could increase the funding to that privately to way past what the government was doing.

Regarding marriage, that has always been between a man and woman. If two gays want to be in a civil union that is not associated with a marriage, that is fine.
The whole previous fabric of the family unit that this country was founded on was the standard model of a family consisting of a man and a woman for in most cases the purpose of procreation.

When all these bogus marriages started to happen, then all the freakazoids came out of the closet demanding things like marrying their dog, cat, cousin, mother and so on.

For that reason in the long run I would expect marriage to be between a man and a woman.

[underbear1]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica Quote by: underbear1 They have gutted 1/3rd of Ryan White Funds and given needed resources for people with AIDS to know-NUTHING faith-based groups with absolutely NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE in medicine, science, and sure as hell never dealt with a sexually transmitted pandemic. This is how they BOUGHT African American evangelical votes. They don't run the government through faith based groups and in the past there was no tolerance for faith based groups regarding grants when they do lots of good with the least amount of money. Now being it's been decades since people blamed Reagan for AIDS (LOL), how come there are new cases at all in the gay community since then? Aren't they all educated now and smart regarding safe sex and not doing anything to cause themselves to catch the virus? How is it possible new cases are forming? As far as needles for drug users. Sounds good, but if they are tweakers, they are out of their head already and will always take what is at hand which means they will still share needles anyway. I'm not saying they can't maybe get some free new ones from the health department in various locations if that is needed, but I don't see it doing much of a dent. If anyone thought it was a real life saver down the line, there would be charity dinners in the private sector and one of their dinners alone could increase the funding to that privately to way past what the government was doing. Regarding marriage, that has always been between a man and woman. If two gays want to be in a civil union that is not associated with a marriage, that is fine. The whole previous fabric of the family unit that this country was founded on was the standard model of a family consisting of a man and a woman for in most cases the purpose of procreation. When all these bogus marriages started to happen, then all the freakazoids came out of the closet demanding things like marrying their dog, cat, cousin, mother and so on. For that reason in the long run I would expect marriage to be between a man and a woman.

Utah had polygamy legal prior to becoming a State, so not all marriages were one man and one woman, there also were laws banning inter-racial marriages until 1913, therefore not any man could marry any woman.
The only freakazoids talking about marrying dogs and box turtles are whacky Christian Reich republicans like Rick Santorum. But I agree Santorum is a freakazoid!

[underbear1]

"Now being it's been decades since people blamed Reagan for AIDS (LOL), how come there are new cases at all in the gay community since then?
Aren't they all educated now and smart regarding safe sex and not doing anything to cause themselves to catch the virus? How is it possible new cases are forming?"

There are NEW queers becoming sexually active every year........ya know just like new straight kids are in each generation, so what was taught in the eighties didn't quite make those gays SAFER who weren't even born then, but now are sexual.
My generation is the ONLY time a at-risk group has altered their sexual behavior due to an STD, even when their wasn't a cure or treatment for syphlis, behavior didn't change. That was because we knew hundreds of cases of friends and aquaintances dying, the current AIDS drugs have slowed the death rate from AIDS, so the new generation doesn't see all their friends die.

[benjackman198]

Quote by: tivodan1116 This is not because of the President, or the government, or anything else. A good economy happens when government gets the hell out of the way.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic - but read that, it's just funny. The economy does require regulation, to remove the impact of the Boom - Bust cycle - and it's this regulation that makes sure it does not get over excited and start doing naughty things like over valuing real estate.

When that happens (when the Government gets out of the way) you end up in situations like The Great Depression (notice the capitals - it must have been big!). Also, when the government is in place to regulate the system, even if there are still crashes, they are highly regulated and have a smaller impact. In terms of $$$ (even after inflation adjustment), The Great Depression was nowhere near as big as the IT Crash - but the regulations and departments in place (and Alan Greenspan ) made sure it did not have the same devastating effect on the people.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: benjackman198 Quote by: tivodan1116 This is not because of the President, or the government, or anything else. A good economy happens when government gets the hell out of the way. I know this has nothing to do with the topic - but read that, it's just funny. The economy does require regulation, to remove the impact of the Boom - Bust cycle - and it's this regulation that makes sure it does not get over excited and start doing naughty things like over valuing real estate. When that happens (when the Government gets out of the way) you end up in situations like The Great Depression (notice the capitals - it must have been big!). Also, when the government is in place to regulate the system, even if there are still crashes, they are highly regulated and have a smaller impact. In terms of $$$ (even after inflation adjustment), The Great Depression was nowhere near as big as the IT Crash - but the regulations and departments in place (and Alan Greenspan ) made sure it did not have the same devastating effect on the people.

Excellent point, the part of the behavior of business that government tries to control does in part concern things that try to aviod recessions and depressions.

[underbear1]

Monopolies are what happen when governments "get out of the way"
Lowered mining safety regulations are what happen when government "get's out of the way"
Fewer and fewer hands hold the vast majority of the wealth is what happens when government "get's out of the way"
Then they get a REVOLUTION.........that whole...let them eat cake cr*p, isn't anymore palatable to hungry masses, now, than it was in the 1700's.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: underbear1 Monopolies are what happen when governments "get out of the way"

Monopolies are one of the main things they are supposed to prevent, and where they can't prevent it, like with your utilities, they regulate it.

Here is basic information for you regarding wealth.

Most all of it in the United States was made by the living generation and when passed on it is usually gone in a couple of generations. (Means we get new wealthy people all the time).

The wealthy pay most all the taxes, and are targeted in class warfare.

The habits of the wealthy often require work weeks that exceed 60 hours and have often failed more than once in business before they got rich.

They are employers.

Ever find any poor people employing anyone and paying an employee's mortgage?

[syracusa]

Quote by: tinybear Whatever they may say about America, millions flock to her shores, hoping to make her their home. Enough said, I think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ttDU...neil%20diamond Is American Pride still alive, you ask? You bet it is!!!

I am not sure I understand this argument which has become quite the cliche and an annoying one for that matter.
"America is a great place because millions have come here".

Have you ever thought that the kind of people America attracts may not necessarily be the "best" kind of people by the standards of the countries they left? And if America has attracted millions, there are BILLIONS who actually stay put where they were born in the first place!

Typically, people who came to the US have been people who did not fit in their own cultures for one reason or another: loners, socially isolated, willing to leave their families and friends behind for purely economic reasons - except of course those like the Mexicans who come in huge groups and continue to live in their own culture, be it on US territory" etc.
No immigrant who came to this country was actually starving in their own at the moment of departure; because when you starve you don't have the energy or the means to actually pack up up and go.

So what kind of people came here? The kind whose idea of a good life is leaving isolated, owning a wood house and mowing its lawn for all eternity, at the expense of losing the real human communities they left behind; and such individuals are awsome...because?

See ...not everything is to be judged by the standards of the American culture. There are lots of nasty things about this culture which your minds process as virtues because you were socialized to see them as virtues; but most people on this globe do not see them as such...as hard as this may be to believe.