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jsmith36 · Jul 7, 2006, 09:32 pm

Hello All,

I wanted to see what people thought on the following topic:

Quote:

The United States should abolish the federal Columbus Day holiday

Let the debate begin!

tinybear · Jul 7, 2006, 11:00 pm

Yes. Columbus was..what...Spanish?

jsmith36 · Jul 7, 2006, 11:05 pm

Well, Columbus's birthplace is actually a little controversial. Some people say he was born in Italy, other place his birth in Portugal. There are also claims that he was Basque, or even French.

For an interesting read, click here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christo...ational_origin

But even if he isn't American, we have holidays celebrating other foreign nationals... Any particular reason you want to get rid of Columbus Day?

tinybear · Jul 7, 2006, 11:12 pm

There's no particular reason why we should celebrate Columbus day, is there?

Umm, what other foreign national do we celebrate (apart from Jesus Christ)?

jsmith36 · Jul 7, 2006, 11:40 pm

Well, we celebrate the birthday of George Washington, who was born in England (although died as as a U.S. president)

And many states have holidays recognizing foreign nationals, such as Kashmir Pulaski day in Illinois.

Is there any more of a reason to celebrate Thanksgiving, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Labor Day, or any of the other Federal holidays as opposed to Columbus day?

bishop · Jul 7, 2006, 11:46 pm

there's always that bit about columbus being a sadistic murderer... if we celebrate his birthday, why not hitler's?

jsmith36 · Jul 7, 2006, 11:48 pm

I guess I would argue that Hitler did not contribute that much to America... It might be argued that Columbus had at least contributed to the permanant settlement of America.

tinybear · Jul 8, 2006, 12:11 am

Columbus didn't establish any permanent settlement in America.

jsmith36 · Jul 8, 2006, 12:27 am

I never said he established permanent settlements in America. What I said was:

Quote:

It might be argued that Columbus had at least contributed to the permanant settlement of America.

In support of that statement, I offer:

Quote:

His voyage marked the beginning of European exploration and colonization of the Americas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

tinybear · Jul 8, 2006, 12:37 am

Yeah, but he had nothing to do with colonization of the Americas. Nor, I suspect, would he want to be associated with the colonization of the Americas; a savage, genocidal process and a shameful chapter in Spain's history..

**Jack** · Jul 8, 2006, 02:04 am

Quote:

Kashmir Pulaski day

Whaaaa? It has to be asked; who the hell is Kashmir Pulaski, and what did he(?) do to deserve a day?

We're not even sure Columbus was the first European to visit the shores of this continent. What we are doing by celebrating Columbus Day is celebrating dubious history, like what we do on St. Patrick's Day (someone whom even the Catholic church has largely discredited.) Why shouldn't a country that espouses a prevailing belief in the supernatural also celebrate people whose roles in history are questionable at best?

Spartacus · Jul 8, 2006, 02:45 am

We celebrate a lot of dubious holidays in this country. Christmas isn't really on Christ's birthday because no one REALLY knows when that was. Only a few people signed the Declaration on the Fourth of July. Most of the rest signed the thing in August. We combined Lincoln's birthday and Washington's birthday into president's day. Heck, Washington wasn't even born on Feb 22 but rather Feb 11th. They adjusted the calendars and added 11 days during his lifetime which technically changed his birthday around as well. Nothing is as you want it to be. Whatsamattayou, picking on poor Christobal thatta way? Sheesh.

PatrickHenry · Jul 8, 2006, 02:46 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Yeah, but he had nothing to do with colonization of the Americas. Nor, I suspect, would he want to be associated with the colonization of the Americas; a savage, genocidal process and a shameful chapter in Spain's history..

Oh, Columbus wouldn't mind. He was pretty much a slaver and killer himself. Actually Columbus Day sorta falsely rehabilitates his image.

At least if the nation is gonna have a holiday named after ol' Chris they should have some honesty regarding his actual record. http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

**Jack** · Jul 8, 2006, 02:56 am

Quote:

We celebrate a lot of dubious holidays in this country.

Great examples. I hadn't really grasped the pervasiveness of the problem. Perhaps the topic should have asked, "is there any federal holiday we celebrate in the U.S. that is even close to being historically accurate?" (Yes, I realize that's too long for a topic title...just pretend.)

Spartacus · Jul 8, 2006, 03:08 am

Memorial Day, Labor Day, and New Years Day are the only ones I can come up with.

tinybear · Jul 8, 2006, 03:14 am

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

Oh, Columbus wouldn't mind. He was pretty much a slaver and killer himself. Actually Columbus Day sorta falsely rehabilitates his image.

At least if the nation is gonna have a holiday named after ol' Chris they should have some honesty regarding his actual record. http://web.mit.edu/thistle/www/v9/9.11/1columbus.html

Well in that case I think we should have a Saddam Day and a Milosevic Day. I mean, come to think of it, why not?

**Jack** · Jul 8, 2006, 03:28 am

Quote:

Memorial Day, Labor Day, and New Years Day are the only ones I can come up with.

I like the thought behind Veteran's Day, but to be fair, every profession that contributes in a positive way to society ought to have a day. Veteran's Day, Porno Shop Counter-person Day, CIO Day, etc. Each day will celebrate 57 professions, more being added daily.

Mia · Jul 8, 2006, 04:40 am

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

Whaaaa? It has to be asked; who the hell is Kashmir Pulaski, and what did he(?) do to deserve a day?

We're not even sure Columbus was the first European to visit the shores of this continent. What we are doing by celebrating Columbus Day is celebrating dubious history, like what we do on St. Patrick's Day (someone whom even the Catholic church has largely discredited.) Why shouldn't a country that espouses a prevailing belief in the supernatural also celebrate people whose roles in history are questionable at best?

Yeah, but St. Patrick's day is fun. Green beer, pinching people, and general silliness. We have to keep the day regardless.

Mia · Jul 8, 2006, 04:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: BaronVEsslingen

Memorial Day, Labor Day, and New Years Day are the only ones I can come up with.

Have you noticed that on Labor day the laborers still work? It is (some) professionals who get the day off!

tinybear · Jul 8, 2006, 04:54 am

Professionals work too. So in a way they are all workers. It's only unemployed folk like me who aren't.

Jul 7, 2006, 11:46 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	there's always that bit about columbus being a sadistic murderer... if we celebrate his birthday, why not hitler's? hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jul 7, 2006, 11:00 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	Yes. Columbus was..what...Spanish?

Jul 7, 2006, 11:05 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
jsmith36 Molten Ash Posts: 40	Well, Columbus's birthplace is actually a little controversial. Some people say he was born in Italy, other place his birth in Portugal. There are also claims that he was Basque, or even French. For an interesting read, click here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christo...ational_origin But even if he isn't American, we have holidays celebrating other foreign nationals... Any particular reason you want to get rid of Columbus Day?

Jul 7, 2006, 11:12 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	There's no particular reason why we should celebrate Columbus day, is there? Umm, what other foreign national do we celebrate (apart from Jesus Christ)?

Jul 7, 2006, 11:40 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
jsmith36 Molten Ash Posts: 40	Well, we celebrate the birthday of George Washington, who was born in England (although died as as a U.S. president) And many states have holidays recognizing foreign nationals, such as Kashmir Pulaski day in Illinois. Is there any more of a reason to celebrate Thanksgiving, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Labor Day, or any of the other Federal holidays as opposed to Columbus day?

Jul 7, 2006, 11:48 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
jsmith36 Molten Ash Posts: 40	I guess I would argue that Hitler did not contribute that much to America... It might be argued that Columbus had at least contributed to the permanant settlement of America.

Jul 8, 2006, 12:11 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	Columbus didn't establish any permanent settlement in America.

Jul 8, 2006, 12:37 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	Yeah, but he had nothing to do with colonization of the Americas. Nor, I suspect, would he want to be associated with the colonization of the Americas; a savage, genocidal process and a shameful chapter in Spain's history..

Jul 8, 2006, 02:45 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Spartacus voyager Location: where I am free Posts: 111	We celebrate a lot of dubious holidays in this country. Christmas isn't really on Christ's birthday because no one REALLY knows when that was. Only a few people signed the Declaration on the Fourth of July. Most of the rest signed the thing in August. We combined Lincoln's birthday and Washington's birthday into president's day. Heck, Washington wasn't even born on Feb 22 but rather Feb 11th. They adjusted the calendars and added 11 days during his lifetime which technically changed his birthday around as well. Nothing is as you want it to be. Whatsamattayou, picking on poor Christobal thatta way? Sheesh.

Jul 8, 2006, 03:08 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Spartacus voyager Location: where I am free Posts: 111	Memorial Day, Labor Day, and New Years Day are the only ones I can come up with.

Jul 8, 2006, 04:54 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,009	Professionals work too. So in a way they are all workers. It's only unemployed folk like me who aren't.