THE reason for the current hate for Wal-Mart.

[Sean]

Originally posted by bullshitdetector, Our government advocates for free market and the opportunity to be successful. Not that I like how Wal-Mart treats their people, that is why I don't work there, but they can as they please just like any other entity in this land of the free.

I usually do not get involved in the debates, but Wal Mart angers me. What I meant was that the US government is being abused by China. This "free trade" is not truly trade. The chinese do not have enough money to buy goods from us (we thought that t would be a market of billions of consumers...WRONG), and the Chinese government under-values their currency so they can dump goods. How is this fair trade? We barely export anything to China in comparison. Our trade deficit with them is huge.

[Osborn F Enready]

Not to mention they are one of the biggest counterfeiters of our money, one of the biggest copyright infringers, and a known maker of brand name goods, with generic labeling, sold at inflated rates to U.S. consumers.

Is that free trade?

[harumscarum]

Finally caught that doc last night. I am curious to see how long this trade gap can exists before we start seeing serious consequences. Who will be the first to fold Wal-Mart or the small business? So we have lost all textile jobs, losing manufacturing and for what? are the prices that much cheaper or is the profits just that much better for the shareholders? I would like to see an experiment of a family who switches from Wal-Mart to other stores to see how much money they actually do save. I know that Wal-Mart is capitalism at its best but at what point do you have more pride in your country then in your bottom line? I guess I am not too angry at Wal-Mart itself since they are just working the free market but I am angry at consumers and businessmen who stand by and accept it.

I fail to see how cheaper prices or jobs that arise from the outsourcing to China can have the same positive impact as a manufacturing plant that employs an entire town.

[Osborn F Enready]

harumscarum said: I fail to see how cheaper prices or jobs that arise from the outsourcing to China can have the same positive impact as a manufacturing plant that employs an entire town.

I say: I agree, and I doubt we ever will.

[Sean]

Well it becomes a transition. People go from wanting lower prices to needing them because their standard of living decreases as a result.

[PatrickHenry]

A book by Greider put me onto this question: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846
ONE WORLD READY OR NOT : THE MANIC LOGIC OF GLOBAL CAPITALISM

Here's a review:

Greider (Secrets of the Temple) here surveys the dynamics and contradictions of the corporate-driven global economy, which, he says, is heading toward "an economic or political cataclysm." His selective tour(he avoids Africa and much of South America, and focuses on U.S. corporations)nonetheless vividly introduces this changing economic world and suggests populist reforms well worth discussion. In developing Malaysia, Greider sees multinational corporations seeking not just cheaper workers but another power base. He observes that technological improvement has actually led to overcapacity in the global auto industry. He notes that the industrialization of China(substituting low-paid workers for higher-paid Westerners)will erode the world's purchasing power. He perceives the U.S. as ominously failing to decrease its trade deficit or to defend domestic producers and jobs. Then Greider looks at the metastasizing world of finance capital and proposes a transaction tax to slow down the "furious pace" of computer-driven traders impelled to seek higher returns. He suggests debt forgiveness for poor nations. To foster a more responsible capitalism, he proposes taxes on capital, not payrolls, reciprocity with mercantilist countries such as Japan and labor rights for workers in poor countries. Greider devotes a final section to emerging examples (e.g., employee ownership) of his proposed "global humanism." But he skirts the question of how religious and ethnic nationalism might affect global economic convergence. Copyright 1996 Reed Business Information, Inc.

[caspian88]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but one union with too much power is the Major League Baseball Player's Union. I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of any off-hand.

[Technosoul]

Originally posted by bullshitdetector, The trouble with Wal-Mart is they use a auctioning concept when getting manufacturers to supply good for their stores. For example, if the coffee makers want a spot in their store to sell their product they bring each of them in one by one and ask what their lowest dollar amount they will accept for the contract. When that is all done they drag them all into one room and auction off the opportunity to the lucky guy who all but gives his product away for a 5 year contract with WallyWorld. They then go back to their dens and decide to move their business to China because the labor there is like 20 cents an hour, driving their profit margin back up. WallyWorld uses the excuse they are selling for near wholesale so in order to keep their profit margin within projections they screw their help over. They don't actually say that but you can bet if there were held accountable for their shitty employee relations that would be the excuse du jour. I don't know anything about this Von Market you speak of Technosoul, I imagine it is like any other small chain, they may charge twice as much but they sure aren't paying what WallyWorld pays, this is where the manufacturer gets an edge as well, they get to charge more to the smaller chains to make a quick profit at lower volumes. They are also held by contract with WallyWorld to keep their product price jacked so the small has to drive the price up. Wally World is a sad excuse for a shopping experience, I will admit to that, but being a consumer with a family to raise and a home to maintain I find myself driving to WallyWorld just so I can grit my teeth and curse under my breath.

Here in So. California in the L.A. area we have about three main supermaket chains, Vons, Abertsons, and Ralphs, and a smaller one called Stater Brothers. They sell mostly only food and household items like soaps, etc. We do not yet have a big Walmart superstore where they sell all food items and everything else under the sun within the L.A. or Orange County area as they have been blocked - with one exception which is still pending construction. All four supermarkets are about the same price wise. They all charge the producer for the shelf space, if you want your beans sold on a shelf that is eye-level it cost you more then if you don't mind having your beans on the bottom shelf. Speical displays in key areas cost the seller more. Some of the small brands cannot afford to pay for the shelf space and still make a profit by underselling the name brands that can mass produce stuff (depending on volume sales).

Now some big name coffee dealers have come out with budget brands under their label to compete, instead of using the more expensive good mountain grown beans from South Ameirca they use coffee beans grown in Veit Nam, or "Arab blends" which they can get for next to nothing.
They might call them "speical roasted" coffees but in fact they are not like the original blends the Big Name brand become famous for taste wise.

But you are right about all the backroom deals going on that the buying public is not aware of. And those supermarkets are not interested in being competitive like the public would think in a capitalistic system, instead the work together to maintain certain price ranges so they are all about the same. They have a system where a big brand like CocaCola wlll move it's "sale" around week by week, one week Ralphs will have it on sale, the next week Albertsons gets to have the sale, and then Vons gets their turn with a Cola sale. This deal is all worked out so that each store can advertise the sale but they all take even turns with that regulated migrating sale so as to make it even-steaven for each supermarket chain.

The whole supermarket busness is not so much about the prices of the goods on the shelf, the busness is about getting stores in just the right locations where you can draw in the most people.

Now the Unions have so far lost big time in keeping or getting more for the employees, and the Unions are now preparing for a bigger showdown to come. The fact is that if the Walmart superstores do make inroads into So. California the other supermarkets will simply find a way to bust the Union, and they also will cut employee pay and other perks, and will and can sell the same name prices as cheap as Wally.
They will not just sit by and allow old union contracts to sink their ships.
More big chain stores will merge, and bigger and bigger they will become.

Remember the Dinosaour?

[crayola]

K-Mart will meet WalMart prices on the same items.

Competition cannot be created against Walmart. I inquired about two items for Walmart shelves. Both can be produced in China for less than fifty-cents each. Here it would cost more than $6.00 per item to manufacture.

Solutions? There isn't any, unless you can find American workers who are willing to work for pennies on the hour.

What good will unions be to empty spaces? And is Greenspan still wanting to lower the min wage?

I think we're already seeing the first phase of Ameica's third world status. But wasn't it inevitable anyway? I mean how long has any nation prospered until its cup runeth over?

No, the solution is to get free trade to be fair trade as some people have touched on.

Also, rewarding companies for moving overseas via tax breaks is not a good idea either.

But overall, I do agree this issue of the Chinese working for less is indeed a never-ending problem.

If the US worked united, and used it's money/technology advantage to build machines that helped America's industry be more efficient that 100 chinese paid a nickel then we might be getting somewhere

[crayola]

Oh, I would like to state the reason I hate Walmart. They hire the elderly to do their dirty work for them. After shopping in their super store and on the way out, you'll encounter those "greeters" who insist on checking your ticket and puchases. It's like a prison or something. I wrote and complained about their setup and how it was affecting our local "good neighbor policy". And Walmart has camera's all over their stores and "watchers" who know what is going on. So they do not need to harrass customers. I was so mad that I turned around and went throught the same cashier spot again, and this time demanded my money back. I was so tired and they gave me a little hassle but not much. I demanded they call the police and replace those greeters with real Gestopo in uniform. <g> One of the managers even had the nerve to tell me the greeters were saving me money on "rollbacks". I asked him what planet he got that information from. I asked him how much Walmart was paying him to inspect customers who had already paid for their purchases. He was so confused as he pretended he didn't see the harm in Walmart policy toward paying customers. Oh well.. next time you're on the way out of Walmart and one of those Nazi police persons demand to check your baggage, just tell them to go to hell. This somehow confuses them even more.

[bugsbunny04]

Originally posted by crayola, He was so confused as he pretended he didn't see the harm in Walmart policy toward paying customers

Ive never had your experience at walmart, only at SAM's Club (walm marts warehouse sister store). And it only happens in areas that have a high occurance of shoplifting (like mobile alabama for example). And the purpose of it is to make sure that you are a paying customer. So quit your bitching.

And people say I am paranoid.

[donkrabbit]

Originally posted by crayola,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (crayola,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Oh, I would like to state the reason I hate Walmart. They hire the elderly to do their dirty work for them.[/b]

To "hire" entails a voluntary trade by both sides. Obviously these people value what they gain from working for Wal-Mart more than they would gain from the alternative (not working for Wal-Mart), or else they wouldn't choose to do so.

What Wal-Mart does is provide an added opportunity for people (both customers and employees). Would it be better if these people didn't have this extra choice available to them? This is an important question for anybody who is anti-Wal-Mart, whatever their reason might be.

<!--QuoteBegin-crayola,
Oh well.. next time you're on the way out of Walmart and one of those Nazi police persons demand to check your baggage, just tell them to go to hell. This somehow confuses them even more.[/quote]

You are allowed on the property under the condition that you follow the policies they have set forth. By entering the store you are agreeing to these policies. If you don't like it then don't shop there.

[bullshitdetector]

I agree, the elderly need more options to increase their incomes through employment opportunities because this country sucks when it comes to looking out for our elderly. Someone has to do whatever job WalMart has to get done, why not the elderly? Sams club is a membership based opperation, WalMart and Sams are not just checking you for your purchases but ensuring the cashier charged you for what you bought. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to complain about.

[Osborn F Enready]

Crayola said: They hire the elderly to do their dirty work for them.

BSD said: the elderly need more options to increase their incomes through employment opportunities because this country sucks when it comes to looking out for our elderly.

Donkrabbit said: To "hire" entails a voluntary trade by both sides. Obviously these people value what they gain from working for Wal-Mart more than they would gain from the alternative (not working for Wal-Mart), or else they wouldn't choose to do so.


I say: In my opinion, this is what I get from the situation. The elderly are willing to work for them, because of two things...
A.) The work is rather low demand in the labor area, low impact.
B.) The elderly have to supplement their income, because S.S. benefits are pretty sad. (My dads on S.S. so I have a base reference.)
C.) They seek the elderly, over younger folks, because as a rule I think the elders have a better work ethic, and they are more trusting overall.
D.) Elders are some of the only that COULD fill the posititon, since it doesn't pay enough to warrant the effort from someone who is working to CREATE an income, instead of SUPPLEMENT an income. (unless of course you are talking about a teen, who lives at home, which in most cases Wal-Mart would RATHER hire an elder, since they are easier to schedule, no child-labor laws, and less odds of internal theft.
E.) A lot of young people, and people of my mindset, refuse to piss in a bottle for a job that pays minimum, or barely above minimum wage. It's an insult, an unnecessary cost, and just plain an unnecessary violation of rights.


This is all my opinion, but most I have heard several times from local kids who are trying to get work in my area.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Mark it on the calendar, something you and I agree on, Osbo.

I wonder if they make the elderly piss in a cup too?

[Osborn F Enready]

According to the "Ohio Drug Free Work Place" program, all WORKERS are held to the drug test, whether it be hair follicle test, urine test, or saliva testing. The management is excluded, of course.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready According to the "Ohio Drug Free Work Place" program, all WORKERS are held to the drug test, whether it be hair follicle test, urine test, or saliva testing. The management is excluded, of course.

This is just in Ohio? I have worked in retail management and they do have to give a urine samle and a complete background check. That is a fact.

[Osborn F Enready]

The Ohio Drug Free Workplace Program, is only in Ohio, but many companies enforce their own drug testing, whether by choice, or by requirement for the insurance company that provides their benefits.

In Ohio, they created the ODFWP, which is a "legalized" way of employers to get kickbacks from workers compensation, for selling out the privacy of their workers. These kickbacks range anywhere from 3%, to over 30% depending on the "risk rating" the particular job has for insurance.

This is a link to the site explaining some of the new Gestapho techniques.
http://das.ohio.gov/hrd/dfwppoli.html

Companies like Wal-Mart, usually have a nation-wide blanket set of rules and policies, and I would bet Wal-Mart is much like Meijer, being on the over-zealous side of regulation, including what you do in your personal time.

[amana1man]

I did work for Walmart a short time. I am a handicaped person. Walmart asked me to do things they were aware I could not do. When I told my manager I was restricted by my doctor and I could only work 8 hours a day my manager said "I do not care about any doctors orders, you will work until I tell you you can go home". When I had problems with my health I had to leave work early. Walmart fired me but did I get unemployment? No. Job service said since I did not finish my shift I quit. Read it at www.angelfire.com/ia/terryleewilcox Walmart also paid out a lot of money in fines for hireing illegal aliens. They cost America 1000s of jobs because they refused to buy and sell quality American made goods because they could buy from China and make more money. I seen this on a show aired on public television.

I did work for Walmart a short time. I am a handicaped person. Walmart asked me to do things they were aware I could not do. When I told my manager I was restricted by my doctor and I could only work 8 hours a day my manager said "I do not care about any doctors orders, you will work until I tell you you can go home". When I had problems with my health I had to leave work early. Walmart fired me but did I get unemployment? No. Job service said since I did not finish my shift I quit. Read it at www.angelfire.com/ia/terryleewilcox
Walmart also paid out a lot of money in fines for hireing illegal aliens. They cost America 1000s of jobs because they refused to buy and sell quality American made goods because they could buy from China and make more money. I seen this on a show aired on public television.