Document Details WMD Recovered In Iraq

[deedee]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Hmm I see numbers here, that aren't supported by any facts, and yet for some reason I am not surprised. Wonder why...

I have provided that information before......read all my posts...I have provided lots of data on this subject before. Do a google on mass graves.

Spank ya very much.

[deedee]

Quote by: RickSp By your silence I presume that this treatment by the military is OK with you. You only seem to get upset if congressmen make statements that you consider out of line. When the military mistreats its own personel, you stand silent.

Wow, Rick....I actually agree with you here!

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel . Thom Hartmann is the champion of the middle class. A national radio host for the radical middle. Right now hes talking about the super secret "Super Highway" from Mexico to Canada (Listen now) Bernie Sanders is his regular guest on Fridays. Edit to add: Heres that article

Dan: I am not familiar with Hartmann but Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. He is hardly a "radical middle" politician. He is more a "radical leftist" politician.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: deedee Uh huh......we are desperate.....it is good to be desperate in taking care of those who can do 'mass'ive harm.

Hmm. Osama Bin Laden seems to have changed his appearance quite a bit... But hey, the picture says "Bush Delivers", so it must be referring to someone who had anything to do with 9/11, i mean what else would he have to deliver? He couldn't possibly be wasting our time, money, and lives fighting somewhere that never attacked us, could he?

[Marconius]

Didnt the dept of defense already say that these were from the 1980s and were not the weapons they were looking for? For one thing these weapons are useless.

[deedee]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Hmm. Osama Bin Laden seems to have changed his appearance quite a bit... But hey, the picture says "Bush Delivers", so it must be referring to someone who had anything to do with 9/11, i mean what else would he have to deliver? He couldn't possibly be wasting our time, money, and lives fighting somewhere that never attacked us, could he?

LOL!

Typical liberal/left mentality......all many of y'all know how to do is criticize. :rolleyes:

From a wiseman, and I quote................

"First though, I have to tell you that I'm just a caveman who likes to smoke an occasional cigar. The way I see it (again, I'm a caveman - very simple) the world is mostly sheep. They just want to live, eat well, and sleep at night. Unfortunately in this world, there are also a fair number of wolves. Wolves and sheep don't get along all that well. Fortunately, there are a group of people in this world who are sheepdogs. They understand that it is their purpose in life to defend the sheep, all the sheep. So, the beautiful thing about this whole string of posts is that whether you're for or against the war it's almost irrelevant. What is relevant is that you have the Freedom to spout what you believe. Now, here's what I believe. Having been a sheepdog for many years I am not convinced that Iraq had no WMD. The reality, which for some reason is so easy to forget, is that we know Saddam had at least nerve gas because he used it on his own folks. I think it's fairly naive to think that he would just stop production and risk his power base. I do think it is very realistic that when you give a country six months notice that you are going to attack (thank you United Nations) it is very possible that he made a lot of WMD "go away". That said though, if you want an equalizer, Clinton sent troops into Europe because of a guy mass murdering people he doesn't like (Milosevic) so why not send troops into Iraq for the same reason? Even our media, which frankly I see as maybe 40% accurate, keeps telling us about mass graves in Iraq. Maybe Iraqi people just aren’t worth as much as our European cousins? Personally I think they are. I just got back from Iraq and honestly I didn’t see this horrific loss of morale that people seem to think exists. What I did see is a bunch of grunts who believe in what they’re doing. Sure we can find disgruntled men there, heck I can find disgruntled folks almost anywhere. I just don’t make a habit of looking for the bad in life. If the terrorists/insurgents/bad guys want to live, all they have to do is let other people live and pretty soon the war just goes away. Not gonna happen though because they need for America to go away. Not from Iraq or the Middle East in general but from the world. To this humble caveman, that sounds like a bad idea. My vote is that we continue to let them die on our terms, not theirs.

[PatrickHenry]

For a "sheepdog" he fails to recognize the wolves. Instead he goes for the weasels while the wolves eat the sheep and the rustlers rob them.

See, weasels don't threaten sheep. Rustlers and wolves do. Ya' gotta get a program if you wanna know the players, deedee.

Ever had a dog that wouldn't do his job?

[deedee]

Quote by: PatrickHenry For a "sheepdog" he fails to recognize the wolves. Instead he goes for the weasels while the wolves eat the sheep and the rustlers rob them. See, weasels don't threaten sheep. Rustlers and wolves do. Ya' gotta get a program if you wanna know the players, deedee. Ever had a dog that wouldn't do his job?

:rolleyes:

It's obvious to me that you don't know how law enforcement/intelligence agencies work. They get the weasels to get info out of them.......the weasels are the ones who will ultimately tell us where the wolves are.

Typical "liberalism".

[PatrickHenry]

Liberal, Liberal, Liberal, Liberal, Liberal.

Ever get tired of labeling somebody whose politics you don't understand, deedee?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Liberal.

The weasels are the terrorists. Nuisance but no threat. The Sheep are the citizens of our former republic, currently an Empire. The Wolves are those with a thirst for blood...the US military from Cheney/Rumsfeld on down. The Rustlers are profiting immensely from the vast flock of unprotected sheep they have located...the Corporations and their wholly-owned politicians.

[deedee]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Liberal, Liberal, Liberal, Liberal, Liberal. Ever get tired of labeling somebody whose politics you don't understand, deedee? Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Liberal. The weasels are the terrorists. Nuisance but no threat. The Sheep are the citizens of our former republic, currently an Empire. The Wolves are those with a thirst for blood...the US military from Cheney/Rumsfeld on down. The Rustlers are profiting immensely from the vast flock of unprotected sheep they have located...the Corporations and their wholly-owned politicians.

Actually, I get tired of those who criticize Bush all the time when it is evident he is doing his job as Chief in Command. He got the No. 1 and No. 5 guy on the terrorist list, and more WMDs will be discovered.

CIAO!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: brien Dan: I am not familiar with Hartmann but Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. He is hardly a "radical middle" politician. He is more a "radical leftist" politician.

Sanders is an Independant Congressman from Virginia. (Edit to add: He is welcomed to the show for one hour each friday to take questions and suggestions from the people and to inform us of whats up in DC, from inside.) I suppose to someone who is radically right-winged he would seem radically left. He has called for accountability from the reich this week (link)
But I wasnt referring to Sanders..... I was talking about Thom.

Heres the radical middle:
(Flag to deedee)

http://www.thomhartmann.com/radicalmiddle.shtml What is the Radical Middle? The Founders of this nation represented the first Radical Middle. Back then they called it "being liberal." As George Washington said, "As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality." They didn't want King George or his military or corporate agents snooping in their houses, mails, or private matters; preventing them from organizing together and speaking out in public in protest of government actions; imprisoning them without access to attorneys, due process, or trials by juries of their peers; or reserving rights to himself that they felt should rest with the people or their elected representatives. (They ultimately wrote all of these in the Bill of Rights in our Constitution.) They also didn't want giant transnational corporations dominating their lives or their local economies. When, in 1773, King George III signed the Tea Act - a massive tax cut for the British East India Company - they protested this first attempt to WalMart-itize America by preventing the Company's ships from landing in several cities up and down the eastern seaboard, and boarding and destroying over a million dollars (in today's money) of tea in the ships that did dock in Boston. This was the beginning, by the Radical Middle, of the American Revolution. The Radical Middle has always believed in fairness and democracy, and understood that completely unrestrained business activity and massive accumulations of wealth into a very few hands can endanger democratic institutions. As James Madison said, "There is an evil which ought to be guarded against in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by … corporations. The power of all corporations ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses." Similarly, John Adams wrote that when "economic power become concentrated in a few hands, then political power flowed to those possessors and away from the citizens, ultimately resulting in an oligarchy or tyranny." Thomas Paine, among others, wrote at length about the dangers to a free people of the massive accumulation of wealth, and following the excesses of the Gilded Age - which led to massive corruption of the American government by corporate and wealth-based interests - laws were put into place limiting the size and behavior of corporations (such as the Sherman Anti-Trust Act), and taxing inheritance of the most massive of family estates so that a new hereditary aristocracy wouldn't emerge in the nation that had thrown off the economic and political oppressions of the hereditary aristocracy of England. The Radical Middle always believed in the idea of a commons - the things that we all own collectively, and administer the way we want through our elected representatives. Our parks, roads, police, fire, schools, and our government itself. Our ability to vote in fair and transparent elections. Our military and defense. Our systems for protecting our air, water, food, and pharmaceuticals. Our ability to retire in safety if we've worked hard and played the game by the rules, and to know that an illness won't financially wipe us out. Regardless of electoral politics (since both of the major political parties often overlook these values, and both have become corrupted by wealth and corporate influence), poll after poll shows that the vast majority of Americans embrace the values of the Radical Middle. In recent years, America has been hijacked by the Radical Right. Corporations now write most of our legislation. Our elected representatives cater to the interests of wealth rather than what is best for the commons we collectively own, or what will sustain that bulwark of democracy known as the middle class. They have, in large part, seized control of our media, wiped out our family farms, and wiped out small, middle-class-owned businesses from our towns and cities. They seek a "merger of corporate and state interests" - a definition Mussolini used for what he called "fascism." The Radical Right has even gone so far as to use sophisticated psychological programming tools, like Newt Gingrich's infamous "word list," to paint the Radical Middle as some sort of insidious anti-Americanism. We in the Radical Middle are calling for nothing less than a restoration of democracy, of government of, by, and for We The People, in a world that works for all.

Hartmann also has a regular guest from the Ayn Rand Institute for a lively debate. Hartmann welcomes opposing views, gives republican callers priority status, then proceeds to wallop them with measured reason, sanity. I wanna be like Thom when I grow up. His talking points come from Jefferson and Madison.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Marconius Didnt the dept of defense already say that these were from the 1980s and were not the weapons they were looking for? For one thing these weapons are useless.

ding!!

I wonder where Saddam bought them from? A few different places, I suppose. :rolleyes:

I've been clenching my teeth lately. Having this twice debunked claim come up in the media again just makes me...

As far as I remember, the reasons the Gov't pushed on us for war was WMD and 9/11. Not any alleged torture rooms and whatnot.

HeyApe. To my list of things wrong with this war, should I add letting WMD slip off into unnacountable hands? You guys are on fucking crack.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: deedee He got the No. 1 and No. 5 guy on the terrorist list

Wrong!
Usama has been #1 since before 911. He is not even wanted by the FBI for 911. Which was a huge fuck up by junior (911). GW Bush should be on the Most Wanted Terrorist list. He has murdered more innocents than OBL ever did.

[brien]

Dan This is the Bernie Sanders I thought was made reference to in your link:

http://www.iuoe545.com/issues/00-the-majority.pdf

http://house.ontheissues.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm

on foreign policy:
Voted YES on deterring foreign arms transfers to China. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on reforming the UN by restricting US funding. (Jun 2005)
Voted YES on keeping Cuba travel ban until political prisoners released. (Jul 2001)
Voted NO on withholding $244M in UN Back Payments until US seat restored. (May 2001)
Voted YES on $156M to IMF for 3rd-world debt reduction. (Jul 2000)
Voted NO on Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China. (May 2000)
Voted YES on $15.2 billion for foreign operations. (Nov 1999)
Multi-year commitment to Africa for food & medicine. (Apr 2001)
Urge China to respect religious freedom. (Mar 2001)

Bernie is defintely the Independent Congressman from VT. I remember when he was first elected as he was then mayor of Burlington, VT's largest city.

[Osborn F Enready]

Ape said: The reaction to this story is as expected. Those who oppose “this” war have used the “say it til they believe it” method of pushing the idea of WMDs as the sole reason for toppling Saddam.

I say:
The President, the Secretary of Defense, and especially the Vice President formed the biggest basis, and vocal framework for the war in Iraq.

There was no imminent threat, no reason for war, especially a rushed and completely foolishly planned war.

Ape said: Forget about his refusal to live up to the cease-fire agreement, forget his interfering with the weapons inspectors, forget his support of international terrorism ($50,000. for the families of suicide bombers), and forget the mass graves, rape rooms, and generally tyrannical rule. Forget his thumbing his nose at the U.N. and 17 resolutions they passed that he ignored. Forget that the war could have been avoided by his stepping down from power. The war was only about WMDs.

I say:
Simply opposing a war that was badly calculated, mathed out, reasoned, and justified does not make us "forget" what has put us at odds of Saddam, Apeman. It seems as though you forgot we supplied Saddam with chemical weapons, support, arms, until he refused to stop playing "our game" according to what we dictated. Maybe you forgot the trade sanctions we put on Iraq that starved out the women and children, but left Saddam at full operation? Maybe you forgot the no-fly zones that were being enforced over that same soverign nation? Iraq is, was, a soverign nation, and its people were well armed until our forces arrived and disarmed them. They could have raised their own revolt. We left them hung out to dry when they did that last time, remember? Oh yea, that is when we supported Saddam, my fault.

Soverign nations deserve the right to remedy their OWN governmental problems. Death in the streets is far more common now, than it was when Saddam was in power. Innocent, random killings are up now, compared to Saddam. Does that mean I support Saddam just because I acknowledge the facts?

I support the troops, not the morons who put them in the predicament they are in. That was both Democrips, and Rebloodlicans, so I am trying to get them all evicted, and their stock options revoked.

Ape said: The hue and cry of “No WMDs found” started as soon as possible. Anyone who cared to know could read about the truck convoys and ships leaving Iraq for Syria and elsewhere with unknown cargo on board during the months preceding the start of hostilities. I guess it was dried dates.

I say:
Funny, that when we were pulling troops away from catching Osama, and sending them to Iraq right?
Maybe if we could have captured Osama, we wouldn't have had a crutch to support the weight of the "WAR" in Iraq?

Ape said: It doesn’t require an exceptional IQ to realize that given the size of the country of and the continued skirmishes with terrorists that the search for WMDs was not the highest priority, and would require a lot of time. Besides, the real goal of the war, the removal of Saddam and allowing the establishment of a new government in Iraq required more attention than the straw man reason of WMDs.

I say:
Speaking of strawmen...... LOL

Ape said: You are free to choose your path.

I say:
It is not my path I am concerned with, since I fully defend and have rights for my path. It is the Presidents path, for these soldiers to be led to war for no justifiable reason. It is needless death of our servicemen, for a threat that didn't exist.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: deedee more WMDs will be discovered.

More? Where were the first ones? Oh yeah, old, inactive artillery shells that were probably used against Iran. Yes, Saddam was aiming them right at us, wasn't he?

CIAO!

Does this mean we have to wait a month to learn from your insight, as usual?

[RickSp]

Quote by: deedee yippe ki yay! we will find more i'm confident. i am on record for saying that it will be a matter of time before we find MWD's......we will find more. wait and see.

Pretty typical Deedee. The only problem with your odd little victory dance is that they found degraded traces of nerve gas in junk shells. So they are no longer Weapons, nor could they cause Mass Destruction. So your WMD have no W, no M and no D.

But enjoy your misinformation.

Officials: U.S. didn’t find WMDs, despite claims

Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Thursday they have no evidence that Iraq produced chemical weapons after the 1991 Gulf War, despite recent reports from media outlets and Republican lawmakers. Pentagon officials told NBC News that the munitions are the same kind of ordnance the U.S. military has been gathering in Iraq for the past several years, and "not the WMD we were looking for when we went in this time."

[Osborn F Enready]

She is just reurgitating the "stated" plan of attack for the upcoming election blitz via the Republican party.

Say the lies enough in enough media outlets, they expect the sheeple to obediently suck it down like its fresh cocoa from mothers kettle. Family values you know.... gotta be PC.

[lsbskins1]

That repeating the lie thing works pretty well on some. There are those who still believe that the Protocals of the Elders of Zion is real, and those who think some Polish people stormed a radio station on the German frontier and started WWII. It's all very sad.

[Apeman81]

[quote=Osborn F Enready]Yea DeeDee, keep looking under chairs, tables in the oval office. There are plenty of WMDs."

Nope. that's where you find Whitewater billing records.