Cheney, CIA, The Darkside

[Boetie]

I started this thread because there is a program that will air sometime Tuesday evening and I will not be able to watch it. So if any of you members of volconvo will take a peak at the program and give your opinion I will appreciate it. Thank You.Below is the link and following the link is parts taken from the press release posted at the link.

Cheney CIA The Darkside

Early in the Bush administration, Cheney placed a group of allies throughout the government who advocated a robust and pre-emptive foreign policy, especially regarding Iraq. But a potential obstacle was Tenet, a holdover from the Clinton administration who had survived the transition by bypassing Cheney and creating a personal bond with the president. ... In the initial stages of the war on terror, Tenet's CIA was rising to prominence as the lead agency in the Afghanistan war. But when Tenet insisted in his personal meetings with the president that there was no connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq, Cheney and Rumsfeld initiated a secret program to re-examine the evidence and marginalize the agency and Tenet. Through interviews with DoD staffers who sifted through mountains of raw intelligence, FRONTLINE tells the story of how questionable intelligence was "stovepiped" to the vice president and presented to the public. ... ..., but after the failure to find Iraqi WMD, the tension between the agency and Cheney's allies grew to the point that some in the administration believed the CIA had launched a covert war to undermine the president. The film shows how in response, Cheney's office waged a campaign to distance itself from the prewar intelligence the vice president had helped to cultivate. Under pressure, Tenet resigned. Cheney's chief of staff, Scooter Libby, would later admit to leaking key sections of the NIE -- authorized, he says, by Cheney. Libby also stated that the vice president told him that President Bush had declassified the material. Insiders tell FRONTLINE that the leak was part of the battle between the vice president and the CIA.

[PatrickHenry]

Frontline is, at times, one of the best exposé shows on the tube. My all time favorite Frontline was Guns, Drugs and the CIA from 1988, I think.

I'll try to catch it, but why don't you set a video recorder to tape it for you?

[Milton Bradley]

Thanks for the heads-up Boetie, gonna have to round up Osborn to watch it with me.


We shall report back if it is att all possible for us to watch.


P.S. Right on Patrick.

[Mr. Jaggers]

It would take a great philosopher to know all the causes of the Iraq war, suffice it to say that President George W. Bush accused Iraq of having weapons of mass destruction - some of which were sold to Iraq by George H.W. Bush when he was President - that Saddam Hussein denied having and the United Nations weapons inspectors could not find, but that President Bush insisted Iraq had, or was in the process of acquiring for imminent use against the United States; and that when this was shown to be based on false intelligence, the invasion and occupation was then justified as a war against terrorism, to liberate Iraq from a oppressive regime, and spread democracy throughout the Middle East; for which thousands of American soldiers were killed and wounded, and untold numbers of Iraqi citizens lost their lives, were maimed, imprisoned, tortured, humiliated, and made to be enemies of the United States and its allies.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Mr. Jaggers It would take a great philosopher to know all the causes of the Iraq war, suffice it to say that President George W. Bush accused Iraq of having weapons of mass destruction - some of which were sold to Iraq by George H.W. Bush when he was President - that Saddam Hussein denied having and the United Nations weapons inspectors could not find, but that President Bush insisted Iraq had, or was in the process of acquiring for imminent use against the United States; and that when this was shown to be based on false intelligence, the invasion and occupation was then justified as a war against terrorism, to liberate Iraq from a oppressive regime, and spread democracy throughout the Middle East; for which thousands of American soldiers were killed and wounded, and untold numbers of Iraqi citizens lost their lives, were maimed, imprisoned, tortured, humiliated, and made to be enemies of the United States and its allies.

It doesn't take a philosopher to find out, it takes an investigator.


Read Crossing the Rubicon, by Mike Rupert, a trained Investigator.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/086...lance&n=283155

[Mr. Jaggers]

Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia 1431 - 1501) once said that men are so simple they will believe anything. The Borgia Pope, while the spiritual leader of the Church, was, if anything, a homme du monde; and, for all his faults, a keen observer of human nature, noting that it is a defect in the human character that we would rather listen to lies than believe the truth we can see with our own eyes. Even when forced to confront the facts, we deny them and make up excuses. In The Prince (modeled after Pope Alexander’s son Cesare), Niccolo Machiavelli wrote about the state and its rule as it is rather than as it should be, for which, after five centuries of experience, he continues to be roundly condemned. It is a social preference for what we choose to believe, though false, over what is in fact true. Great Caesar was right when he wrote: Fere libenter homines it quod volunt credunt - “Men willingly believe what they wish to be true.” Julius Caesar, Gallic War, iii. 18.

[Boetie]

Thanks everyone. I'm unable to record the show because all I have is a dvd player.

The reason I'm interested in this is because the picture isn't matching. The Legislative Branch claims to have connected the dots regarding the WMD's issue and drew up the conclusion that it was an intelligence failure. This connecting the dots is also known as phase one.

How can the Legislative Branch be so corrupt? If they truly did connect the dots it should have came out like the Frontline version. The press release posted above is where I'm getting the the Frontline version.

If the frontline version is convincing, something I cannot verify, but those of you whom watch it are able to at least to say whether it was convincing or not. If it is convincing then in my opinion we have a serious problem with at least two of our Branches of Goverment and this is under Bush Jr's watch.

Also I'm am well aware that right after Libby was indicted in the Plame affair, Bush Jr on Veterans Day blatanly lied to the American public that he was cleared of hyping up the march to war. The investigation into what role did the White House play in hyping up the march to war is known as phase two.

The Legislative Branch dragged it's feet on phase two. Do you know how long it has been since they drew up the conclusion that the WMD issue is an intelligence failure aka phase one, did you know the Legislative Branch never even started phase two.

We have two very corrupt Branches, which means our check and balance has completely collasped.

[Milton Bradley]

Thanks for proving my point Jaggers.

Quote by: Mr. Jaggers Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia 1431 - 1501) once said that men are so simple they will believe anything.

If you choose to believe the government, at least the "official story", on this issue, then indeed people are capable of believing whatever they want.

Quote by: Mr. Jaggers The Borgia Pope, while the spiritual leader of the Church, was, if anything, a homme du monde; and, for all his faults, a keen observer of human nature, noting that it is a defect in the human character that we would rather listen to lies than believe the truth we can see with our own eyes. Even when forced to confront the facts, we deny them and make up excuses.

Speaking of "the truth we can see with our own eyes", do you not see a government with an agenda?


I think it's criminal that the current administration ( and several past administrations ) feel the need to change the nature of our government under the guise of The War, and Emergency Powers Acts in the alleged War on Terror, to do battle with a bunch of barely organized, cave dwelling. low tech agents of a small Jihad, when the Constitution was written with a formidable enemy on our soil. Surely the Brits were a more formidable enemy to the Colonists than Al Qaiada is to the modern American military machine.


So if you wish to philosophize about the meaning of it all, ponder the deep truths of why my government has acted in the manor it has since 9/11/01.


I would think an attack of that scale, and that nature would deserve more than a cursory investigation. Fortunately Mike Rupert, and others thought so as well.

[Mr. Jaggers]

Philosophize? How else does one explain those who, in light of the facts, continue to blindly support President Bush and his failed policies? How much evidence does it take to make the people see the light?

[Boetie]

Whoops, I got the date wrong. I thought it was going to air on Tuesday the 13th. The airing of the show is on Tuesday the 20th. Still I will not be able to watch it.

[PatrickHenry]

What I watched tonight: The Insurgency:

You can watch it online: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/insurgency/

Likely you can watch the one on Cheney online too.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Boetie Whoops, I got the date wrong. I thought it was going to air on Tuesday the 13th. The airing of the show is on Tuesday the 20th. Still I will not be able to watch it.

Yep, you did.


The funny thing is, last nights episode was a repeat. ( Already saw it myself. )

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Boetie The Legislative Branch dragged it's feet on phase two. Do you know how long it has been since they drew up the conclusion that the WMD issue is an intelligence failure aka phase one, did you know the Legislative Branch never even started phase two.

Of course we know it wasnt an intelligence failure at all. The intelligence was fixed around the policy, rather than vice-versa. Fraud, not failure. Big Difference.

Quote by: MB The funny thing is, last nights episode was a repeat.

It was an updated version, included additional footage:

The updated report also examines how the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq will impact the insurgency

I saw it on tv last night.
It can be seen online here http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/insurgency/

[gr8fuldaniel]

They should be corrected every time they try to pass it off as human error. That removes blame in the minds of people. Bush was warned not to include those 16 words in the SOTU Address. Intelligence KNEW they were forgeries before our pinhead in chief wave the !! MUSHROOM CLOUD !! at us. How many innocent people would be alive today if bush were arrested for fraud that night? The "war on terror" became a war of terror at that moment.

[Boetie]

For those of you whom may be watching the upcoming Frontline investigation Cheney CIA Darkside the following may be of interest.

In the lead up to the War in Iraq Congress and the Public was given what is known as the White Paper. I came across the following information regarding the White Paper at a website known as globalsecurity and this is what they have on their website

WHITE PAPER ON IRAQ'S WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION PROGRAMS (U) On October 4, 2002, three days after the National Intelligence Council (NIC) published its classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) published an unclassified paper, Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs. The paper was drafted and ultimately released as a white paper on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs, but the Intelligence Community (IC) intended the paper to also meet requests from Congress for an unclassified version of the classified NIE. (U) The unclassified paper was substantively similar to, although not nearly as detailed as, the classified NIE. The key judgments were almost identical in layout and substance in both papers. The key judgments of the unclassified paper were missing many of the caveats and some references to alternative agency views that were used in the classified NIE, however. Removing caveats such as "we judge" or "we assess" changed many sentences in the unclassified paper to statements of fact rather than assessments. For example, the classified NIE said, We judge that all key aspects - research & development (R&D), production, and weaponization - of Iraq's offensive biological weapons (BW) program are active and that most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf War, while the unclassified paper said, All key aspects - research & development (R&D), production, and weaponization - of Iraq's offensive BW program are active and that most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf War. (U) Committee staff asked the NIO why the caveats, such as "we judge" and "we assess" were removed from the key judgments when they were declassified for use in the unclassified paper...

Then I came across another site which monitors journalists being harmed as the result of occupational hazards and what do we find here

(RSF/IFEX) - RSF has denounced the laying of charges against two journalists from the conservative daily "Berlingske Tidende". On 26 April 2004, Jesper Larsen and Michael Bjerre were questioned and charged with "publishing information illegally obtained by a third party" under Article 152-d of the Criminal Code. They face a possible six-month prison sentence. "It would be unacceptable for these journalists to be convicted for having made public information which calls into question a major foreign policy decision and is thus clearly a matter of public interest," the organisation said. In a series of articles published since 22 February, the journalists quoted excerpts from Danish military intelligence reports, given to them by agent Frank Soeholm Grevil, which denied the availability of credible information on the existence of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq before the March 2003 military intervention. The existence of WMD was the principal argument put forward by Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen to justify Danish involvement alongside the American and British-led coalition. Grevil, who was also charged, was upset by the way in which the intelligence reports were interpreted by the government

.


So how is it that the United States Legislative Branch came up with the conclusion that poor Bush JR and Cheney were victims of intelligence failure? When the very classified information used is loaded with caveats. Even members of the Legislative Branch was very well aware of the difference between the classified version and the unclassified version.

We are being lied to by both the Legislative Branch of our government and the Executive Branch of our government.

[Boetie]

Just a reminder that tonight is the Frontline program which is topic of this thread.

Also many of you should be aware that the Republican Party and the Pentagon are going to trying to con the American Public again with the catching phrase, "we shoudn't cut and run" which is code for the Republican Party and the Pentagon haven't got a clue as to what to do about and exit plan. In fact they went into this without even giving an exit plan a thought. But the do have cute slogans.

Funny to hear them say, "we shouldn't cut and run" when it was their cowardice that got us into the mess in Iraq in the first place. Remember the boogeyman rhetoric they gave us? Well that boogeyman rhetoric is a rhetoric one would expect from chicken and the sky is falling.

Will someone please put real men in charge. This Pentagon and Bush Jr is getting to be like the comedy duo of Wet Pants and So no More Jo

[Milton Bradley]

I'm on it.


I'm looking forward to tonights episode.

[Milton Bradley]

I watched the show tonight, great production.


Osborn says it exceeded his expectations, but I was expecting a little more. ( So I only rated it as great. )


I just reread the thread, and you never specifically said what you wanted us to report back on, so, questions?


I guess if I were to summarize the feeling I was left with after watching the production, I would say that it's pretty clear that they were inferring that the "illegal" intelligence organization that Cheney created to go around the CIA seems to have won the battle, and succeeded in marginalizing the CIA to an extent, and that a great deal of power now exists in places where it ought not to be.


As usual, the truth makes the conspiracy theories pale in comparison.


Lots of talk from insiders in the Intel community of pressure from the Vice President, the man G.W. appointed to head the War on Terror.


So it looks to me like this was exactly as suspected by those painting the "worst case scenario", and that we really have invested nearly a HALF TRILLION DOLLARS in a bogus war, for false reasons to forward some Right Wing whack jobs concept of a stronger Executive, and that 9/11 was used as a modern day Reichstag by the NeoCons to usurp power away from other branches of government, and from the We the People.

[Osborn F Enready]

Excellent production, and I was shocked at the amount of information they compiled into a 90 minute program.

A nice compilation of what they see of the picture "as of this moment", based on factual data.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Boetie So how is it that the United States Legislative Branch came up with the conclusion that poor Bush JR and Cheney were victims of intelligence failure? When the very classified information used is loaded with caveats. Even members of the Legislative Branch was very well aware of the difference between the classified version and the unclassified version.

Congress can't even be bothered to read laws before voting on them, ( Patriot Act ) so it's no surprise that they don't have time to police official government documents to see if they are truth based assumptions, or outright lies to forward an agenda.

Quote by: Boetie We are being lied to by both the Legislative Branch of our government and the Executive Branch of our government.

Even more disturbing is the fact that the bulk of the media is in on the lies, and many are marching along in lockstep with our treasonous, duplicitous, lying, representatives in government.


...then, there is the Judicial Branch...