Depression - a religious pathway towards joy.

[Technosoul]

The dark night of the soul.

The seemingly endless hopelessness, poverty of spirit, all alone with no one to turn to that can really help, unable to grasp anything enlightening or inspirational, a saddening of perception.

The Mystic say ... good....that means you are on the correct pathway of a spiritural journey though your mind, and into deeper understanding, out which shall come the rapture to lift one up into the higher consciousness.

(as long as a shrink does not block the way).

Source data - http://themystic.org/dark-night/index.htm

Whatcha think?

[Jack]

If depression, hopelessness and darkness doesn't lead to enlightenment for you, there always flagellation. Very respected in its day.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isherwood If depression, hopelessness and darkness doesn't lead to enlightenment for you, there always flagellation. Very respected in its day.

I hear tell that dominatrix-ism is still a fad in New York city. (not sure spelling) - on that Velvet Underground LP (the one with the banna cover) they have a song about it that which seems to explain the consciousness behind such rituals.

When the Buddha fellow was on his trip to check out all the different religions he tried one where flagellation was used, but found it lacking.

Our jailers still believe that punishment and mild torture will make the inmates see the light and the error of their ways, some inmates when set free even come back for more.

Perhaps depression is simular to self-torture, not sure however if that shoe really fits or not.

Flagellation and other punishments seem to be more of a subsitute for confessions and self motivated repentence, relative to getting liberated from feelings of guilt (sin?). A kind of "false salvation" perhaps, or a secular version of a religious transformation.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Flagellation is more in line with some schools of Islam, and some of the more diverse Catholic sects. It's use as a medatative means for bodily distraction is much miss-understood by those unaccustomed to the training and rigours involved.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel Flagellation is more in line with some schools of Islam, and some of the more diverse Catholic sects. It's use as a medatative means for bodily distraction is much miss-understood by those unaccustomed to the training and rigours involved.

You are no doubt right about that aspect. Learning how to maintain a peaceful meditative state under whatever distraction might occur. This one Native Amercan teacher would have students meditate in the woods with no shirt on, the idea was that when bugs would land on the skin you would continue to meditate and overcome the urge to swish away the bugs. A guy I know who took part in that experience reported that once you get used to the insects and remain in your meditative state you get a sense of harmony with nature and your surroundings.

[Jack]

It's use as a medatative means for bodily distraction is much miss-understood by those unaccustomed to the training and rigours involved.

I understand well enough. Mortification of the flesh is a common theme in less progressive religions. Punishing the flesh to exorcise impurities and to produce religious ecstasy. The attempt religion makes to imbue it with holy motives doesn't excuse its brutality, violence and lack of compassion towards ones self. It makes no sense except to fanatics.

[Technosoul]

Some of those rituals came out of what was known as a "rite of passage". From boyhood to manhood. The idea that a man must be tuff. The young boys had to endure hardships of different kinds to prove they were man enough to take it. Without going into details differnent tribes and cultures had those kinds of "tests" - especially if becomeing a warror was the goal.

Today, street gangs conduct such "tests" to find out if someone is brave enough to join the neighborhood gang or not.

In surburban neighborhoods they get tested when they get into sporting groups, playing football can cause suffering and pain, but they feel the "high" of overcoming and winning is worth it, and they find more acceptance amoung adult males of the culture. Old rituals re-formed into new methods.

Some of the rituals were designed to create a simulated near death experience - which can provoke an visionary experience because the brain will produce pleasure chemicals - like some drugs - that can cause illusions simular to a spiritural revelation. Fasting being the most popular form of self-torture and starving can create a near death experience (time allowed).

Although such rituals have nothing to do with the "dark night of the soul" experience, which is another bird. None the less the topic we have wandered into is worthwhile examining.

[Princeps]

I get what you're really saying, Technosoul. You're familiar with the writings of St. John of the Cross, yes?

It's not simply "depression" or "angst" being discussed here. Those who truly worship God find that there is a drug-like ecstasy that is triggered in the body, but after excessive bouts of prayer and worship this feeling goes away, and it seems like God is abandoning the person. But God really isn't; by taking away the simplest form of communion between Himself and humans, He forces us to commune on a higher level-to contemplate Him with our spirits instead of our souls.