IS the loss of spirituality a progression, or regression of man?

[Sandy]

I don't know about you guys, but I spend a lot of time trying to avoid the scams that seem to assault me through phone calls, emails, mailings and of course the schemes coming out of the the government. I guess I just don't have time for spirituality while I'm dodging the world that wants something from me.

I look at the spiritual leaders in America and I see scam artists. Even the Priests in the Catholic churches are molesting our little boys. It all boils down to asking the religious leaders to shape up and stop trying to finagle the people into giving more money or even a quick feel now and again.

I live in a senior development and daily we read that somebody sold a new roof to an old couple and absconded with their check. I'm trying to put up a 6 ft. fence around my back yard and half the cost has been paid to the builder and he has taken a long time to get my permits which are needed to replace a broken down fence and put up a new one, We are already into this at $1600 and I will never know if he is really going to do the job. The problem is that I'm new to the area and don't know anyone. I will wait and see.

Don't give me spirituality but try a little honesty once in a while.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Marilyn Monroe I'll bet you will. :eek:

Yeah, I'd like to see him try. I have the distinct impression that if he ever saw God, he'd be dumbstruck just like the rest of us.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Sandy I don't know about you guys, but I spend a lot of time trying to avoid the scams that seem to assault me through phone calls, emails, mailings and of course the schemes coming out of the the government. I guess I just don't have time for spirituality while I'm dodging the world that wants something from me. I look at the spiritual leaders in America and I see scam artists. Even the Priests in the Catholic churches are molesting our little boys. It all boils down to asking the religious leaders to shape up and stop trying to finagle the people into giving more money or even a quick feel now and again. I live in a senior development and daily we read that somebody sold a new roof to an old couple and absconded with their check. I'm trying to put up a 6 ft. fence around my back yard and half the cost has been paid to the builder and he has taken a long time to get my permits which are needed to replace a broken down fence and put up a new one, We are already into this at $1600 and I will never know if he is really going to do the job. The problem is that I'm new to the area and don't know anyone. I will wait and see. Don't give me spirituality but try a little honesty once in a while.

Well, it's a sad situation and I apologize, but it is not very wise always to judge the message by the messenger. It is true that you should be able to trust the person who tells you these things (especially things relating to faith), and I can tell you that if you look, you can find people who earnestly and truly live out the message that they preach to others. I just encourage you not to be put off by the pretenders.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Why, you want to see me ream God out in front of all of you? If he is there, he has a LOT to answer for, and I am not going to cut him slack for HIS sins, IF he is there. You guys can bow to him and walk behind him smelling his gas, while holding his robe, I will set him straight.

good luck, when your done, why don't you tell me why YOU sinned your way to hell? God doesn't control humans, so blaming him for stuff like wars and crime would be useless, the earth was cursed because of man's sin, so natural disasters and diseases aren't His fault. what do you want him to do, make everyone but you a robot?

[Matt W]

Os - enough. Dmstr254...don't encourage him.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Matt W Os - enough. Dmstr254...don't encourage him.

don't worry, I sort of enjoy some of the responses, considering how many hundreds of times I have heard them from other people. work on a debate team, and take a Biblical Worldview class, and you tend to hear a lot of the arguments.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: dthmstr254 I was wondering how long it would be before I debated with you. well, considering that God put them out pretty simply: "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, this is the second death." "the wages of sin is death...". It looks rather clear to me.

dthmstr254] I am satisfied with the faith in your clarity. It is indeed your choice :)

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel dthmstr254] I am satisfied with the faith in your clarity. It is indeed your choice :)

meet me on the apologetics thread. that way a debate about what is right and wrong can be more fully addressed. trust me, if all Christians were as devoted to God as some Muslims were to Allah, the world would be a better place.

[mlingley]

I think a loss of spirituality is going backwards.
The more we slip away from the soul the more we get caught up in me and I and we forget the bigger picture.

Religion is a complicated issue. It has it's good and bad points. All religion if followed is good for people in general. The problem is when people start thinking their religion is better than your religion. If people would just mind their own business we would have no problems. It doesn't matter what you believe and I probably couldn't change your mind if I wanted to, nor should I want to. Your beliefs are your beliefs.

[Athena]

http://www.boloji.com/spirituality/077.htm Quantum science is going beyond the probe of atoms, photons, neutrons, quirks and exploring a newer string theory (dancing, unobservable, vibrational waves of energy) and membrane theory (Multiple universes, carved up into slices, living side by side, all conduced by?). Together they give room to explore what is know as the M-theory which is undertaking to prove the unity of Gravity, Electromagnetism, Weak and Strong nuclear forces. The deeper Quantum physicists explore, the closer they encircle metaphysical philosophy. They are realizing there are higher realities within infinite dimensions of intelligent vibrational energy.

I think when all public schools begin preparing students to think in terms of quantum physics there will an explosion of spirituality and we will enter the New Age, and it will be so different from our past, the people of the future will not able to relate to the consciousness of the past.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: dthmstr254 meet me on the apologetics thread. that way a debate about what is right and wrong can be more fully addressed. trust me, if all Christians were as devoted to God as some Muslims were to Allah, the world would be a better place.

dthmstr254 having viewed and been fascinated by the apologetics thread, i found very little i could contribute too, thank you for your kind invite though.

devotion ah well an emotion that can sometimes lead too much trouble through lack of forethought

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel dthmstr254 having viewed and been fascinated by the apologetics thread, i found very little i could contribute too, thank you for your kind invite though. devotion ah well an emotion that can sometimes lead too much trouble through lack of forethought

apologetics is simply the defense of a person's faith. you are a Muslim if I read your posts correctly. all you have to do is post what your views are on some topic, such as salvation, commandments, who God is, etc. the thread was created by an Orthodox person looking to bash on anything that didn't line up with his beliefs. he was easy enough to refute biblically. I guess you will be a more difficult challenge. I have taken the thread over and changed it to a debate on why you believe what you believe. it don't matter what you believe, so long as you believe something as a religious/spiritual matter.

and by devotion is the amount of zeal people have for God.

[rez]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I ask this in all seriousness, putting aside my own beliefs, and yours, here's the question: There is a general sense of loss of spirituality in the world, some countries it's more prevalent then others, but that's not the point, that there is this movement away from religion, and all things religious, is man really progressing or is it something else? I was thinking about this today, and I hoenstly don't know. On one hand, I can see the arguement of "It's our destiny, it our life, where is this God and why should we listen to him?" I can understand the issue, after all, we can't hear, see, detect God in any tangible way. So is he really there? It begs the question though, if there is a God and people turn away from him, whose fault? I blame the larger Churches, that have become mroe power/money systems, and the organized religions as a whole. "If you don't believe what WE believe, you shall burn in the firey pitts of HELL!" right. I have not, nor will I ever buy that line of thought. If X religion is so right, and our souls would really rot in hell for not believing them, don't you think God would have spent a bit more effort makng sure we knw that was the gig? Yeah, me too. In the end though, it's hard to even bother with religion in some ways because there are 5,000 different flavors of "Believe in US and YOU will be a chosen one" It's crap. Crap crap crap. But IMHO that doesn't mean there isn't a God.

Why can't we evolve our idea of what god is? Why do we have to associate a gender to the concept? Why do we have to make the idea of a god a way to control society?

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: dthmstr254 apologetics is simply the defense of a person's faith. you are a Muslim if I read your posts correctly. and by devotion is the amount of zeal people have for God.

dthmstr254 I have no faith to defend friend. And if my posts have misled you into classing me as a Muslim then the brothers and sisters whom follow allah might be concerned, for have no knowledge of Muslim beliefs.

I practice the way that is not spoken. My zeal and devotion is to the enaction of love :)

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel dthmstr254 I have no faith to defend friend. And if my posts have misled you into classing me as a Muslim then the brothers and sisters whom follow allah might be concerned, for have no knowledge of Muslim beliefs. I practice the way that is not spoken. My zeal and devotion is to the enaction of love :)

I would ask then, what is the nature of humanity?

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Well, my big issue is, one extreme, be it full on whatever religion has proven over and over to be not so great an idea. Inquisition, Islamic Terror..... just for example. But on the flip side, in real world examples of completel lack of religion, we have seen some pretty nasty things too. USSR, China, NK and Cuba for example. It's the extreme's that bother me, and thats the gist of the question, is a tottal abondonment of God any better then a full slave state to him? I say, no.

Britain is one of the most secular countries (aside from those Dictatorships which you'd mentioned) and I don't think it become that by force.
Source

I'm not a socialogist but I do think it looks like progression to me. We've maintained all the moral standards which religion sought to enforce but we've done away with a lot of dogma.

[Derach]

Quote by: mlingley I think a loss of spirituality is going backwards. The more we slip away from the soul the more we get caught up in me and I and we forget the bigger picture. Religion is a complicated issue. It has it's good and bad points. All religion if followed is good for people in general. The problem is when people start thinking their religion is better than your religion. If people would just mind their own business we would have no problems. It doesn't matter what you believe and I probably couldn't change your mind if I wanted to, nor should I want to. Your beliefs are your beliefs.

Good point ... the call of most religions to evangelize with zealousness can create an environment of intolerance and pompousness that leads to the bad side of religion.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Pooeypants Britain is one of the most secular countries (aside from those Dictatorships which you'd mentioned) and I don't think it become that by force. Source I'm not a socialist but I do think it looks like progression to me. We've maintained all the moral standards which religion sought to enforce but we've done away with a lot of dogma.

don't forget that the kings/queens who came before were the source of a lot of the dogma related evils that religion has offered thus far. (witch hunts started in the Anglican church, bloody Mary killed all people non-Catholic, the English king the Americans fought against in the Revolutionary war were committing his evils in the name of the church.) check out your history according to Yale and Harvard, it isn't until recently that England did away with religion, and I STILL wouldn't want to live there. remember that the USSR experienced a short time where the government worked, before it fell apart into a dictatorship. England is going the SAME direction.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Derach Good point ... the call of most religions to evangelize with zealousness can create an environment of intolerance and pompousness that leads to the bad side of religion.

and the standpoint that most atheists have taken AGAINST Christianity has been equally, if not more intolerant than the people they called intolerant (Hitler, USSR, NK, China). it isn't like we are the only ones to blame. literally speaking, with the persecution it has been put through, Christianity shouldn't even exist. go figure. the more people parade and protest and persecute Christianity, the more it grows.

[Derach]

Protests AGAINST Chritianity?? ... Are you serious? ... The protest I see are Bible thumpers in front of health clinics, and at death-penalty hearings, and at 'gay pride' parades ... I've never seen an organized protest against Christianity. The point I made about enthusiastic evangelism has more to do with the 'faithful' being overwhelmed with the desire to 'spread the good news'. I don't really blame them; If I really thought that your eternal salvation was based on taking some action, or attending some sermon, or whatever ... I sure would encourage people I cared about to attend ... vigorously. Maybe it's right to do so, but it's intolerant of other religions, or sects of your religion, that don't follow those standards. Hey -- you think someone's SOUL is at stake ... of course your gonna be pushy about it. People get pushy about things they REALLY care about (go to an Amway seminar for more proof of how zealous people can get when it comes to something important to them). The true spirit of evangelism (I think) is to introduce your beliefs to other people, and let them accept or deny that belief system on their own, and not let their choice affect how you treat the person. That's an awfully hard pill to swallow when your talking about the possibility of eternity with or without the grace of God in your presence, so many 'evangelicals' (Christian or otherwise) in a black or white, 'if you accept it your saved, if you reject it your dammned' attitude. And that breeds intolerance.