'Everything happens for a reason' or 'Shit Happens'?

[Mia]

Which do you believe? I tried all my life to believe in the former, but I find it problematic. It's easy to believe if: something good happens, you get a good result from something you initially thought was bad, or you learn some type of valuable lesson or something else you wouldn't have if not for the bad occurance/experience.

But sometimes trying to believe this leaves me searching for some good or meaning when I can't find any. And I feel I'd be better off if I said 'Shit happens, now how to get over it and move on?'

What do you think?

[phoenix_fire]

I believe that the vast majority of things happen for a reason. Dice rolls are a good example. The gambler will usually think that the dice are either for or against him when in reality (all things being equal), probability tells us that each number will be, in a sufficient number of rolls, rolled exactly as many times as every other number.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I believe that the vast majority of things happen for a reason. Dice rolls are a good example. The gambler will usually think that the dice are either for or against him when in reality (all things being equal), probability tells us that each number will be, in a sufficient number of rolls, rolled exactly as many times as every other number.

Wouldn't that mean that "shit happens" then? I mean, the dice won't roll a 2 for a guy so he can buy a new car, pay off his debts, or go on vacation. It's random everytime, like every other probability. So when something bad happens, it's just unfortunate, not part of a gran scheme of reasons. Shit happens wins this hands down.

[swtypie918]

When you say that things happen for a reason, that means destiny. I looked up what the bible says about that. Ecclesiastes 9:11 says "Nor do even those having knowledge the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all." Everything that happens are just responses of our actions and coincidences.

[phoenix_fire]

Just because it doesn't benefit you, SF, doesn't mean it's chaos conspiring against you.

Hey, n00b. Welcome to our madness. I would have to say that the verse you use doesn't really prove your point. Coincidence is unforseen to us. We are victims of linear time and limited perception. But if you want to acknowledege at all the possibility of some kind of divine order, then you have to admit that what seems to be coincidence to us may make perfect sense to someone else. Say, for instance, that there is a cute guy that I want to talk to. I know that he always leaves for class at 10:45, so I just "coincidently" decide to go to the library at the same time and run into him halfway. It's a random occurence to him, but to me it is no coincidence at all.

[Sonart]

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I suppose it depends on your particular faith...

Taoism: Shit happens.
Confucianism: Confucius say, "Shit happens."
Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.
Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
Episcopalian: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
Methodist: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.
Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work.
Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
Creationism: God made all shit.
Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
Christian Science: Shit happening is all in your mind.
Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this shit.
Quakers: Let us not fight over this shit.
Utopianism: This shit does not stink.
Darwinism: This shit was once food.
Capitalism: That's MY shit.
Communism: It's everybody's shit.
Hedonism: There is nothing like a good shit happening!
Mormonism: God sent us this shit.
Wiccan: An it harm none, let shit happen.
Scientology: If shit happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.
Jehovah's Witnesses: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
Moonies: Only really happy shit happens.
Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!
Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half on the time.
Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
Atheism: I can't believe this shit!
Nihilism: No shit.

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[phoenix_fire]

Lol.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Just because it doesn't benefit you, SF, doesn't mean it's chaos conspiring against you.

That;s my point. Chaos happens because it happens, that's why we have so many unanswered questions and always will, because as humans we're so used to cause and effect, whereas the universe knows only chaos and random mishap in creation/death of stars, galaxys, planets, etc.

[Jack]

No surprise, I'm in the "shit happens" camp. Trying to attach meaning ex post facto to events is understandable. It's nearly against our nature to accept something happening for no reason. Yet those events were happening long before there were humans to attach meaning to them, and will no doubt occur long after.

This debate is the "ID vs. evolution" debate using different concepts. Does shit have a reason for happening or does it just happen? Does creation have a purpose, a designer, or did it just work out this way?

Sonart, excellent list. In exchange for that other thread, I'm stealing this for my blog. I'll even give you the credit, whether or not you created it. Zen Buddhism koan: what is the sound of one shit happening?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I believe that the vast majority of things happen for a reason. Dice rolls are a good example. The gambler will usually think that the dice are either for or against him when in reality (all things being equal), probability tells us that each number will be, in a sufficient number of rolls, rolled exactly as many times as every other number.

O.o What stats class did you go to?

[underbear1]

I think we aren't in the position to know if things happen for a reason, or random chaos. Guess we'll learn that a few seconds after we die, or we won't.

[Lullaby Chainer]

What I always wonder..

If everything happens as it should. Cause and effect. For every happening, the is a reason for its happening. What will happen, quite simply, WILL happen.

If we assume those things, and I personally do. Does anyone here think it is odd that the universe is, in a way, reading a book? What purpose does that solve? What is it trying to do?

[Osborn F Enready]

My opinion.....

Everything happens for a reason, and your choice is that reason.

If you want to blame someone, look to yourself first, you will usually be right.

Things that happen without choice, are nature.

We can't not like nature, well, we can but it is counter-productive.

So I say things that happen due to nature, must be natural, and play the cards you've been dealt.

All I know is that in the end of my life, I can't control what nature has done to me, but I can reflect on my ability to make good choices when choices were forced to be made. If I can die happy with my choices, I can die happy. That is what is important to me, much more than success, love, reproduction, mans plight or anything else.

If I can look in the mirror and look in my own eyes, and say I did the best I can and MEAN it, and KNOW IT, than what the hell else can anyone ask for, except the power to have that ability?

[Matt W]

I'm in the 'shit happens' camp. The only person in control of my destiny is ME, and it's by my own sweat & blood that I will sort things out.

[Osborn F Enready]

Word Matt, word.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

As one who practices the way; I’m happy that shit happens. It would be so boring if it didn’t; a hell of view

The shit can be from others, the planet or our own. Besides it’s not the shit!
Once it has happened then the important essence is our interaction with it. Clean it up, get some one to clean it up, ignore it by either getting covered in it or going round (hiding from it is the same) to avoid it.

Shit is the fertiliser of opportunity.:)

Recall this fable?

"A young bird lay alive but frozen on the ground, for what seemed like hours to him, he tried to yell for help but no one came to help him get warm enough to fly again. It wasn’t until a lumbering old cow came by and unknowingly dropped a pile of warm dung on top of the bird, now angry because the cow had shit on him he began to yell again “Damn you Cow! You dumb beast!” but soon the young bird realized that the hot cow dung had melted the ice off of his wings. “Wooo Hooo! Soon I’ll be able to fly again! Thank you stupid Cow!” But now the bird had a different problem, the cow dung was so thick and gooey that he was still stuck in it, so he began to yell again this time much louder. “Will somebody get me out of this shit? Help! Help! Help! Soon an old Cat wandered along and saw the little birds distress, “ here little bird let me help you out of that awful shit!” the Cat pulled him out and carried him into the barnyard and sat him down next to a bowl of water where he could clean the shit off of his feathers. While he was cleaning himself, The old Cat asked him “So tell me what happened to you Little Bird! How did you end up in such a pile of Shit?” he related the entire story to the old Cat and when he was done cleaning the shit off of himself he proclaimed the old Cat to be his greatest friend ever! Just then the old Cat jumped on the little Bird and killed it and ate it.

And so the story around the Barnyard goes, just because someone accidentally shits on you, that doesn’t necessarily make them your enemy, and just because someone is there to pull you out of the shit, It doesn’t necessarily mean that they have your best interest in mind."

[tman_ndsu08]

IE, do you believe in hard determinism or not?

Heisenberg proved that hard determinism is false.

Therefore, I don't believe in it.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer What will happen, quite simply, WILL happen.

You're close.

What did happen, DID happen.

There are infinite possibilities for the future. Thus, it's impossible to say what will happen.

Therefore, only the events that did happen, happened.

[Sonart]

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Shit happens.

Only the religious require that there has to be a reason for it. I'm always a tad annoyed when, following, say, a tragic accident that claims many lives, the survivors go before media cameras and declare that God must have answered their prayers and saved them. So what are they saying? That those who parished didn't pray hard enough? Or that God decided that those who died weren't worthy?

The survivors can't seem to deal with the fact that pure random chance determined to whom shit would happen and to whom it would not.

Shit happens. Evolution has simply equipped us to deal with it when it does, giving us the opportunity to affect a postive outcome.

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[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 You're close. What did happen, DID happen. There are infinite possibilities for the future. Thus, it's impossible to say what will happen. Therefore, only the events that did happen, happened.

Actually... no. Assuming time only occurs once, there is only one way for things to happen. And these things can happen in no other way than the way they will happen. Cause and effect. For every happening, we can ask why?

Just because we cannot predict the future doesn't prove anything, silly! ^^

A possibility, is only our ignorance of the future. We may say there are 6 possibilties to a roll of a dice at a casino. This only means we have a hard time choosing between 6 different event. But there can only be one, and this one is the direct effect of millions and millions of different factors, some too small for us to understand.