'Everything happens for a reason' or 'Shit Happens'?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: mlingley When you are sitting in the present your future is in front of you. There are an infinite number of future available to you. Your future may be set in stone, but that is only because your future you have planned and are making choices to reach it. Altough "SHIT" may happen that you hadn't planned at any given moment. It's all about free will, choice, and timing. In my opinion.

Possibilities are simply our ignorance of the future.

When we are totally ignorant... our evident possibilities may seem infinite.

As we learn more.. we can exclude a few possibilties from our reasonable veiw of the outcomes ahead of us.

It isn't about what we choose or do not choose to believe. It isn't about how many possibilities we think we have. It isn't about what's available to us.. It's all about the 'O' at overstock.com

aha.. sry

No, it's about what WILL happen MUST happen because it is GOING to happen. Yes, our future may seem hard to grasp, and thus there may seem to be many possible outcomes. But that doesn't change cause and effect. That doesn't change the trillions of tiny little factors that all come together to cause an effect. For every happening, we can ask "why?"

An example..

We have a die. Our ignorance prevents us from accuratley predicting the future. So we are left with 6 main and reasonable possibilties and we expect one to happen; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6.

(and no tman, before you talk about aliens coming down to pick up the dice, notice I said "main" and "reasonable" possibilities. I could list all the possibilties that the die roller may conjure up but.. I'm not)

Now.. let us go through the roll of the dice. Thoughts trigger thoughts. Brain activity triggers brain activity. The dice is rolled at a set velocity with a set spin determined by trillions of tiny mental and physical factors and reasons. Cause and effect.

Once this dice is in the air. Things don't just happen for the heck of it. The dice will most likely follow the laws of physics present in the current area. This would govern how it spins through the air, how it travels through the air, how fast it travels through the air, how it lands on the surface, how it rolls on the surface, how it tilts and wobbles on the surface, and how it sets itself on the surface.

The result just so happens to be a 4. Just as the roller thought, the die landed within their expected outcomes.

Now, let's "un-complicate" the matter. The roller now places the dice right above the surface. He notices that the die reads "6" on top. He concludes that the reasonable outcome(s) would be 6. This is because his ignorance of the future is lifted when he simplifies the matter.

The roller drops the die centimeters off the surface and as exspected, the die reads "6". Did the laws of physics and the billions of different factors really care what outcomes the roller had in mind? (other than perhaps unconscious muscle bias towards the roll ^^;

You see.. for every happening, there is a reason. Just because we are ignorant of our future doesn't change this.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer And this future is already set in stone whether we like it or not.

It's completely possible that the univere is not determinisitc.

There is no avoiding the WAY it WILL happen.

Assuming the universe is deterministic, we can never know the way it will happen.

Thus, infinite possible ways that it could happen are all legitimate until t+dt becomes t.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Possibilities are simply our ignorance of the future. When we are totally ignorant our evident possibilities may seem infinite.

That's the point.


We can never know the future (even if it is determinable), thus, all possible futures are legitimate until the future becomes the present.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Tman!!! How many time do I have to tell you!!!!??? I've never ever said we can know the future!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE try to understand that.

[tman_ndsu08]

But you still claim that there exists only one legitimate event for time t + dt.

Untrue.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 But you still claim that there exists only one legitimate event for time t + dt. Untrue.

I'm saying if time only occurs once, than there is only one way for things to happen. And these things don't just happen for the heck of it.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I'm saying if time only occurs once

I'm assuming we've thrown out parallel universites etc. from the start.

than there is only one way for things to happen.

Exactly as I've said it.

When time t+dt becomes time t, only one of the infinite legitmate futures becomes true.

And these things don't just happen for the heck of it.

Of course not.

[Lullaby Chainer]

I'm assuming we've thrown out parallel universites etc. from the start.

Ya.. hence "assuming time only happens once"

Exactly as I've said it. When time t+dt becomes time t, only one of the infinite legitmate futures becomes true.

You've told me there are infinite possibilities. All I'm telling you is.. possibilties are simply the result of ignorance of the future. Like in my roll of the dice example, when we lift our ignorance of the future, the main possibilities decrease. But.. there is only one way things can happen. And this is determined by cause and effect. The more we understand the cause and effect parameters of an event, the closer we get to predicting the future. But this future, will happen, and not just for the heck of it.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer possibilties are simply the result of ignorance of the future.

You can't be ignorant of the future if you can't know which future will become true.

Only one future will becomes true and there will be an exact set of cause and effect relationships that you can study in the past to see the deterministics of why that future became true.

You're in the past, you're not talking about the future.

[tman_ndsu08]

Maybe this will help explain my idea:




The grey clouds represent the set of futures that are likely to happen. Even though at any time greater than t all futures are possible, using probability we can see that as t+t0 approaches t+dt, the set of likely futures shrinks until the threshold of the present has passed and only one future becomes the past.

[JessiR85]

God has a purpose in our lives. Everything that goes on in our lives happens for a reason that only God knows. There are also lots of different things that are consequences of our decisions or sins. Following God's will doesn't mean that everything will be easy going. Even if the world seems to be falling on top of you, everything is for a reason. Maybe you are to learn from it or maybe it just means that this event is leading you to a better event. You will have to wait and see. If you do everything with God in mind and as He says, at the long run you will be fine.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: JessiR85 God has a purpose in our lives. Everything that goes on in our lives happens for a reason that only God knows. There are also lots of different things that are consequences of our decisions or sins. Following God's will doesn't mean that everything will be easy going. Even if the world seems to be falling on top of you, everything is for a reason. Maybe you are to learn from it or maybe it just means that this event is leading you to a better event. You will have to wait and see. If you do everything with God in mind and as He says, at the long run you will be fine.

Oh is that it?? Aw man, almost a year on this forum and I finally found the answer: all you need to have faith in God, is to have faith in God! Duh, right under my nose. And so relevant to the main topic, too! Great post Jessi, you're a real eye-opener... :rolleyes:

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Athena However, we can speculate about the power of thought, or possibilty of recarnation and the result of karma, or about a devil and God, as what is behind "shit happening".

Why speculate when there's no evidence to speculate over? It's dumb to speculate hypothetically...leads no where.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Maybe this will help explain my idea: The grey clouds represent the set of futures that are likely to happen. Even though at any time greater than t all futures are possible, using probability we can see that as t+t0 approaches t+dt, the set of likely futures shrinks until the threshold of the present has passed and only one future becomes the past.

The graph did not duplicate above - So an Easter egg rolls from the past through now and becomes a gaint Easter egg. cool!

But what determined that the egg would crack open - and a bunny would pop out?

What about the novelty wave factor? For novelty to be inserted that could alter the determinate to cause change you need some constant factor that can insert that novelty to re-direct a evolutionary pattern towards a new future of developement.

Random events that happen during and to something in motion are regulated by a number of factors such as gravty, how the ball or dice can bounce off of a number of different surfaces, and what force the motion had behind it, and what resistance the object would encounter - and so on The more complex the reasons are the more random it appears to be.

[tman_ndsu08]

...

What?

You lost me after Easter eggs.

[JessiR85]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Oh is that it?? Aw man, almost a year on this forum and I finally found the answer: all you need to have faith in God, is to have faith in God! Duh, right under my nose. And so relevant to the main topic, too! Great post Jessi, you're a real eye-opener... :rolleyes:

I'm sorry if you don't like my point of view. I'm just expressing my opinion: Everything that goes on around us happens for a specific reason. Even though you have something to say...I'm sorry, it won't change the way I think.

Thank you

[shunyadragon]

Quote by: Mia Which do you believe? I tried all my life to believe in the former, but I find it problematic. It's easy to believe if: something good happens, you get a good result from something you initially thought was bad, or you learn some type of valuable lesson or something else you wouldn't have if not for the bad occurance/experience. But sometimes trying to believe this leaves me searching for some good or meaning when I can't find any. And I feel I'd be better off if I said 'Shit happens, now how to get over it and move on?' What do you think?

Both happen in the course of reality. Many things happen for a reason, but some times that the reason appears arbitrary and shit happens. Recently the floor opened up in house in California and a man fell to his death in collapsing debri of what was apparently an abandoned mine shaft under the house.

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Oh is that it?? Aw man, almost a year on this forum and I finally found the answer: all you need to have faith in God, is to have faith in God! Duh, right under my nose. And so relevant to the main topic, too! Great post Jessi, you're a real eye-opener... :rolleyes:

Actually, this response is directly relevant to the main topic, unlike the current debate going on as a splinter.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: JessiR85 I'm sorry if you don't like my point of view. I'm just expressing my opinion: Everything that goes on around us happens for a specific reason. Even though you have something to say...I'm sorry, it won't change the way I think. Thank you

Then why are you here? To preach your oh, so very wise words of wisdom? You can't be that narcissist...or can you?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia Actually, this response is directly relevant to the main topic, unlike the current debate going on as a splinter.

Uh for one, the issue of God wasn't even mentioned in the title. And it's fine for his introduction, but at least give some reasons why and not just a simple opinion with no evidence nor explanation as to WHY any of us should take in what is being read.