Let's discuss death.

[Mr.Vicchio]

We are all going to die, it's probably the biggest thing after conception that we KNOW will happen.

So lets discuss Death.

There are really two views on death, and these are the two I want to focus on in relation to life.

1. There is nothing, death is the end of your exsistance. You're born, you live, you die. That's it. Be it 5 minutes or 105 years, that is all you get to experience reality.

2. There is an afterlife. I personally have a different view of the after life, and it's not the traditional Catholic one. www.near-death.com has some very compelling NDE's (Near Death Experiences) which paint a picture of what comes next IMHO.

What I want to discuss is, the effect for you the two beliefs have. Does the thought of nothingness bother you? Do you believe that thoughts of the afterlife are just a crutch to make death acceptable.

Personally, I believe in an afterlife. I believe there is more to the universe then just what we are now. Do I have any solid concrete proof. No. I do not.

If life is just what we have now, then the cruelity of life is far more magnified then most people might think. If there is an after life, and the Earth and our time here has some greater importance then just exsisting... well, it makes the cruelnes sof life more acceptable.

[whoracle]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio If life is just what we have now, then the cruelity of life is far more magnified then most people might think. If there is an after life, and the Earth and our time here has some greater importance then just exsisting... well, it makes the cruelnes sof life more acceptable.

iIbelieve in nothingness. i also believe that your above statement is exactly why people cling to the belief of something more.
ntohing personal - i just don't think most people would do well in everyday life with the knowledge that they're not going to be rewarded or punished for their actions. Faith is a tricky thing, and most people need it in the same way an amputee needs a crutch.

[brien]

[quote=Mr.Vicchio]We are all going to die, it's probably the biggest thing after conception that we KNOW will happen.

So lets discuss Death.

Mr Vicchio:

I think you mean you want to discuss what comes after death, not death. Death is something you probably won''t even notice. At least that is what I can conclude from your post.

Life is like a glass of water slowing leaking back to the universal ocean from which it came. Substitute energy for water, and you get my meaning here. Therefore, if you understand my meaning here of life, you will be able to conclude my understanding of what comes after death.

[rez]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio 2. There is an afterlife. I personally have a different view of the after life, and it's not the traditional Catholic one. www.near-death.com has some very compelling NDE's (Near Death Experiences) which paint a picture of what comes next IMHO.

I think it is a very compeling argument to say that the brain is what causes humans to have consciousness, without it, there is nothing. How can one be able to be conscious without a brain?

I don't really think that the afterlife is a crutch to make death acceptable, but a crutch for religious authority or any other type of authority to gain power. I think the after-life is just another example of humans never being satisfied.

[Rave7pt0]

I know there is an afterlife. I can't prove it to a hard and fast skeptic (who could?), but I, in fact, died when I was 7, and have spent a goodly portion of my life figuring out what it was that I experienced.

I get faintly excited when I think of my own death -- it's going to be incredible, and I can't wait to experience it.


I'm sure those of you who believe in rotting and decay after death find my optimism naive, but try to believe me when I say that there is a huge universe out there -- a world just beyond what you normally see and feel... it's right there to be experienced by anyone willing to look.

[leftcider]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 I, in fact, died when I was 7

???????????????

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 figuring out what it was that I experienced.

Residue electricity in your brain after your heart stopped?

I get faintly excited when I think of my own death -- it's going to be incredible

Except for that whole excrutiating pain thing.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: leftcider ???????????????

If your heart stops beating, you're technically "dead" until they start it again.

[rez]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Residue electricity in your brain after your heart stopped?

seems to be the case, but why do they determine death by your heart stoping?

[phoenix_fire]

I believe in an afterlife. Worst case scenario and there isn't one: when I die, I will have lived an unselfish life, I will have met my end bravely and head-on instead of being drug out like a coward, and if there is nothing else, I will have gone out blissfully ignorant. I really don't see what good it does anyone (even if they're right) to go on thinking there is nothing. I mean, when you die, if you're right, you don't get the satisfaction of telling the rest of us "I told you so". All you get for your trouble is misery and fear. If faith is a fantasy, it's a good one: one worth staking your life on.

[LetThereBe]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I believe in an afterlife. Worst case scenario and there isn't one: when I die, I will have lived an unselfish life, I will have met my end bravely and head-on instead of being drug out like a coward, and if there is nothing else, I will have gone out blissfully ignorant. I really don't see what good it does anyone (even if they're right) to go on thinking there is nothing. I mean, when you die, if you're right, you don't get the satisfaction of telling the rest of us "I told you so". All you get for your trouble is misery and fear. If faith is a fantasy, it's a good one: one worth staking your life on.

The only thing worth staking your life on is truth.

I have never been sure about the afterlife: both eternal life and ultimate oblivion are unfathomable. I would like to hope that there is an afterlife, but that does not mean it is truth. Perhaps the gambler should choose religion because of the possible outcomes, but I believe that to be the wrong attitude to take with a question of such depth and gravity.

[rez]

Quote by: phoenix_fire when I die, I will have lived an unselfish life

I mean, when you die, if you're right, you don't get the satisfaction of telling the rest of us "I told you so".

how selfish.

[Jack]

it's right there to be experienced by anyone willing to look

You mean anyone willing to die right now to find out? No thanks. While I don't believe there's anything after death, I prefer to enjoy the life I do have while I still have it. I'll find out what death's all about when the time comes, as will we all.

[Boetie]

I wish to offer my experience. About a year and a half ago, I was going to die, there was no reason for me not too.

What they do is put you in a room private room, so that when you do die, the staff can discreetly put you in a body bag and take you away out of site out of mind.

I noticed the doctors, nurses, staff members, and hospital chaplains were all nervous around me. Seeing everyone nervous taught me that the death wasn't about me, it was about everyone else. I did what I could to make everyone comfortable and relaxed. It worked.

Don't fret over yourself because you are going to be gone and big deal. If possible do everything you can to make everyone comfortable. And please do not manipulate others for example getting others to come down to see you, maybe they don't want to see you, respect that.

Of course the very fact that I am posting tells everyone that I made it.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: LetThereBe The only thing worth staking your life on is truth. I have never been sure about the afterlife: both eternal life and ultimate oblivion are unfathomable. I would like to hope that there is an afterlife, but that does not mean it is truth. Perhaps the gambler should choose religion because of the possible outcomes, but I believe that to be the wrong attitude to take with a question of such depth and gravity.

Well, I kinda said all of that for the benefit of everyone else. I believe fully that I believe the truth. With God, it's kinda all or nothing.

[G. Adams]

I do believe in an afterlife, but I'm not terrified of being wrong, much for the same reasons as pheonix. If there's no afterlife, I won't be around to comprehend it, and if there is, whaddya know I was right.

He's a puzzler though; What if this is the afterlife? What if we're in the afterlife state now, waiting to be reborn into life? What if what we call death is just your time to be reborn? Thank you Terry Pratchett for introducing that boggling thought to me.

[another day]

pheonix_fire, you clearly don't believe in the truth, your "faith" is terribly shaky if you ask me consdiering the way you talk. Keep on trying to convince yourself that you really believe it all, you said so yourself its a delusional fantasy to keep you from fear and misery and the possibility to rub it in everyones faces after you die. Ridiculous. Your philosophy on life is pitiful.

As for the "after-life"...Any traditional view of after-life is pure delusion. Heaven, hell, purgatory,paradise you name it, it's all wishful mythical bullshit.

I think it's exactly like before we were born. You return once again to the whole of the universe and your short time experiencing a focused version of reality is over. You as you know it is completely meaningless, you cease to exist.

If reincarnation exists, then obviously you would not be conscious of your past lives, considering we are not conscious of our past lives and should be since we must have already been reincarnated if this cycle is endless. But if were not conscious of our past life/lives, then what is the difference between that and no reincarnation at all? What part of you is even being passed on? It's way too abstract.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio We are all going to die, it's probably the biggest thing after conception that we KNOW will happen.

We mentally calculate and then know we are going to die some day. Had we be ignorant what death is obviously nobody would feel that he would die. It is our knowlege about death and observation tha tmakes us think that we would die. There is difference in feeling and knowing. I have discussed death in detail on various other threads "Is there time to die" recently.

So lets discuss Death. There are really two views on death, and these are the two I want to focus on in relation to life. 1. There is nothing, death is the end of your exsistance. You're born, you live, you die. That's it. Be it 5 minutes or 105 years, that is all you get to experience reality. 2. There is an afterlife. I personally have a different view of the after life, and it's not the traditional Catholic one. www.near-death.com has some very compelling NDE's (Near Death Experiences) which paint a picture of what comes next IMHO.

Yes, you get to experience reality. The reality is you die for others and not for yourself. Exactly the way while you come out of your house, you are non existant for your family members in the house, but continue to be existant outside for yourself. The only difference is during living state you move about with body and after death you move about without body. My other posts may be reffered to get thing clear !!!

What I want to discuss is, the effect for you the two beliefs have. Does the thought of nothingness bother you? Do you believe that thoughts of the afterlife are just a crutch to make death acceptable.

No, it does not bother me since I have seen my own body lying by my side in one dream. Yes, for most of the persons, who are ignorant about the experience of personal death, afterlife statement would sound like a crutch to make death acceptable.

Personally, I believe in an afterlife. I believe there is more to the universe then just what we are now. Do I have any solid concrete proof. No. I do not.

I wont't be able to provide you one such proof. But would explain the reason for your believe viz, Why you believe there is more to the universe then just what we are now???
Suppose you live always in one room and are not aware of out side world. But somehow you come out of room one day and you would be able to look a vast sorrounding much different. Your field of vision would be widened in a way! At the time of your death something similar happens, you come out of body (compare body with room in previous case) and your vision broadens exactly same way. This is why your belief!!!!!

Persons after having NDEs (near death experiences) describe similar situations. Our respected science names such situations as hallucinations and what not!!! But reality is you exist with your meta-physical mind with memory in tact, which slowly fades off due to your attention to different more interesting environment you are interested in at that time. :confused: ??? No need to do so, it is very similar to dream, as I explained somewhere else. :)

If life is just what we have now, then the cruelity of life is far more magnified then most people might think. If there is an after life, and the Earth and our time here has some greater importance then just exsisting... well, it makes the cruelness of life more acceptable.

First part is not correct! Definitely there is after life since, many indirect proofs are there. Coming to the case of after life, you are mistaken slightly. My dear nothing is compelling you to be in this world. There is no greater importance than just existing. You are here since you love to be here. It very simple you mostly do what you like, if not binded by rules and regulations of society, Govt. etc.. You have come here out of your own wish. You are ignorantly considering your true self as your body. At the time of death when you are deprived of your body due to natural fixed property of aging, you mourn for it. Nature not being cruel as you have termed it, provides you another body in form of reincarnation.

Now then, you may ask why is the cruelity of death at all existing. I would ask you in return, what would have happen if there would been no death. Just think it over!!!! :confused:

You would get the answer as to why nature has kept aging and deterioration of tissues, organs, malfuctioning etc., etc., all is for the good of pleasant continuation of life smoothly!!!!!!!

No cruelness Sir, all bless. In gist you love to be here and so you are here. Temporary, since nature runs most of the phenominas in a cycle. :)

[heiscomingsoon]

Hello!
Many people do not understand what DEATH is. they are afraid of it, and do not want to talk about. For example, many people are ready to do anything to live one more day (heart transplant...). On the other hand; most christian people do not have this problem because they know there is something good for them after DEATH.

[another day]

They know or they think? Besides, many christians undergo huge surgeries and such to prolong their life. What you said simply isn't true. Christians are just as scared of death as anyone else, they have just attempted to delude themselves in such a way that they don't have to face the reality of death.

Persons after having NDEs (near death experiences) describe similar situations. Our respected science names such situations as hallucination and what not!!!

Ever stop to think that maybe the similarity of these so-called "near death experiences" stems not from the reality of after-death, but from what society has conditioned us to believe happens when we die? I just don't see why people give these NDEs any credit...It's just a dream that happens under extremely stressful circumstances.