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fedfem · Oct 4, 2003, 01:32 pm

Fallen, do you have a source for that info?--copyright rules and all ya know.

Plus, I believe some of the info is incorrect. Without your source,(if I am missing it, I apologise)it makes it difficult for me to debate the info without writing a freakin' book in this post.

Section 8 · Oct 5, 2003, 07:01 pm

Hmmmmmmm, FA how about the Crusades? Spanish Inquisitions? According to you I could argue that Christianity is evil. I know that Christianity isn't evil, they're just examples to prove that just because people use religion as a conduit to further their own hateful ways doesn't mean that the religion preaches hate. A modern day example is the pope, using religion to discriminate against homosexuals.

Section 8 · Oct 6, 2003, 12:36 pm

FA, I still believe that Islam is a peaceful religion, because I judge it upon the teachings of the Qu'ran, not on the actions of some of its followers. I suggest you to do the same. And no the Qu'ran is not filled with hateful passages towards other religions, it has the same basic beliefs as Christianity and Judaism.

Fallen Angel · Oct 7, 2003, 05:51 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Section 8@10-05-2003 07:01 PM
Hmmmmmmm, FA how about the Crusades? Spanish Inquisitions? According to you I could argue that Christianity is evil. I know that Christianity isn't evil, they're just examples to prove that just because people use religion as a conduit to further their own hateful ways doesn't mean that the religion preaches hate. A modern day example is the pope, using religion to discriminate against homosexuals.

The Pope has said Homosexuality is not acceptable in the eyes of the Catholic Church or God, hes not saying go out and slaughter them if they don't repent is he.
Be gay if you want, just don't ram it down peoples throats that don't like it.

Section 8 · Oct 7, 2003, 10:54 am

What about gay marriages? That is definently an obsticle in being gay, and this form of hate is spearheaded by the pope. I'm sure homosexual people will be happy if the pope left them alone and allowed them basic human rights.

Section 8 · Oct 7, 2003, 07:56 pm

FA, leading back to my main point about abolishing the church, if the church were abolished none of the horrific events would have occured. At least ten million people would be alive and kicking ass. Ten million! Now answer me why abolishing the church is such a bad idea, and don't give me that "slavery of religion" bullshit. As stated earlier, all that I'm proposing is the abolishtion of organized religion. One would still be free to practice any religion that they choose. This would create renewed freedom, and stop horrible predjudices and massacres based upon religion.

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Oct 7, 2003, 07:59 pm

We need help to discriminate? Last time I looked polarized thinking was built into the system. Of course doing your thinking with your emotions makes it worse, but I try to discourage that.

Our perceptions are always colored by another persons sex, gender, religion, and anything else we know about them. Only knowing enough about them that they fail to fit in a box very well cures that tendancy...

Section 8 · Oct 7, 2003, 08:00 pm

GWB, organized religion helps fuel the discrimination machine.
What's your opinion on abolishing the church?

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Oct 7, 2003, 08:15 pm

I do not like organized religion, but a system must exist to reduce the pressure caused by population pressure. Invent a workable system that works as well or better than the church, and I will be right behind you. But I do not think that the common man is ready to stand w/o the crutch the church provides. IOW: if the church were to disappear this instant, the people seek stability in forms of government that did not respect individual rights at all.

Fallen Angel · Oct 8, 2003, 01:00 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Section 8@10-07-2003 10:54 AM
What about gay marriages? That is definently an obsticle in being gay, and this form of hate is spearheaded by the pope. I'm sure homosexual people will be happy if the pope left them alone and allowed them basic human rights.

He is leaving them alone Section 8, he is just making a statement on the Catholic churches position regarding homosexuality, no one is forcing the gays to go and get married in a Catholic church are they?

Fallen Angel · Oct 8, 2003, 01:13 am

Quote:

Originally posted by fedfem@10-04-2003 01:32 PM
Fallen, do you have a source for that info?--copyright rules and all ya know.

Plus, I believe some of the info is incorrect. Without your source,(if I am missing it, I apologise)it makes it difficult for me to debate the info without writing a freakin' book in this post.

The source I was given Fedfem has been lost, it was taken off the google search engine, and I 'm not what you meant about your liability angle, as Google put it on the web in the first place.
What info did you think was incorrect anyway?

Section 8 · Oct 8, 2003, 02:45 am

FA, you've not answered my question yet. And yes the pope openly opposes gay marraige and uses his political and religious power to stop gay's rights.

Fallen Angel · Oct 8, 2003, 02:55 am

I did answer your question Section 8, the Pope opposes Homosexuality in the Catholic Church, that is his opposition, if you don't like it then don't hang around with Catholics, there are plenty of other people you can talk with who have embraced gay issues in fear of being victim to a PC witch hunt.

fedfem · Oct 8, 2003, 09:55 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Fallen Angel@10-08-2003 01:13 AM

The source I was given Fedfem has been lost, it was taken off the google search engine, and I 'm not what you meant about your liability angle, as Google put it on the web in the first place.

Google had the link to the info, you don't.

Google doesn't remove things from its search engine!

I will do your homework for you.

fedfem · Oct 8, 2003, 10:53 am

Fallen, there are multiple sources for the material you posted.

Here are the sources. You may want to cite them for legal reasons.

http://www.satribune.com/archives/feb17_23...nion_bertil.htm

http://www.bartleby.com/67/287.html

literaryroc · Oct 8, 2003, 05:47 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by anti-flag5446@09-28-2003 12:09 AM

Umm... do you even know what you're talking about? Slavery? Aboloshing the church would do nothing but make the world more equal. Why were hundreds of Christians killed by the Romans? Religion. Why were hundreds of Jews killed during the holocaust and the crusades? Religion. If the church was abollished then we could have more equality, and this would certainly not be "slavery"

let me just preface this with the blanketed statement: i am not a scholoar of religion or philosophy so i don't claim to know anything more than what i feel.

you mentioned here that it was religion, not church, that caused the murders of romans and jews. don't you think it had more to do with the cultism of the church verses what message they were learning or following? as a person you can believe in something, and do nothing, until another person convinces you that something must be done.

literaryroc · Oct 8, 2003, 06:08 pm

FA - let me see if i understand this correctly (and this is a question of clarification, not an attack). first you state that you don't question your beliefs, i'm assuming you are meaning, your religion. the only time you would question your religion is if the pope all of a sudden announced that gay marriage was supported by the catholic religion. you stand in support of his thoughts and opposition of gay rights, and gay marriage. you believe that he is right and that as a catholic congregation - all must have this same opinion, because the pope is right.

but... within this same discussion you mention the way that "another religion" treats woman. and that there should be no such treatment. why? just because they are women? women are human beings and the true argument here should be that no human being deserves to be stoned because they aren't wearing proper attire as it is stated by their religion.

you say, question "another religion" for the mistreatment of a woman not dressed correctly according to their (wrongful) religion. But i will not question my own for the mistreatment of a human being because they love differently than i do as stated by my religion.

i'm confused.

Fallen Angel · Oct 10, 2003, 09:53 am

Quote:

Originally posted by literaryroc@10-08-2003 06:08 PM
FA - let me see if i understand this correctly (and this is a question of clarification, not an attack). first you state that you don't question your beliefs, i'm assuming you are meaning, your religion. the only time you would question your religion is if the pope all of a sudden announced that gay marriage was supported by the catholic religion. you stand in support of his thoughts and opposition of gay rights, and gay marriage. you believe that he is right and that as a catholic congregation - all must have this same opinion, because the pope is right.

but... within this same discussion you mention the way that "another religion" treats woman. and that there should be no such treatment. why? just because they are women? women are human beings and the true argument here should be that no human being deserves to be stoned because they aren't wearing proper attire as it is stated by their religion.

you say, question "another religion" for the mistreatment of a woman not dressed correctly according to their (wrongful) religion. But i will not question my own for the mistreatment of a human being because they love differently than i do as stated by my religion.

i'm confused.

OK, your confused.
The Catholic Church does not except Homosexuality, as it is not a natural relationship to have before God.
I mainly object to the Sharia against women as it is abrutal way of treating women who cannot defend themslves against this aggression.
If the Catholic Church treated women like this I wouldnt be a Catholic.

Fallen Angel · Oct 10, 2003, 09:57 am

Quote:

Originally posted by fedfem@10-08-2003 10:53 AM
Fallen, there are multiple sources for the material you posted.

Here are the sources. You may want to cite them for legal reasons.

http://www.satribune.com/archives/feb17_23...nion_bertil.htm

http://www.bartleby.com/67/287.html

Thanks Fedfem, I still dont know what your legalitys issue is about, your stressing out over nothing I think.
The errors you found, in my Google research on Islamic agression throughout history, what are they?
You havent clarified that one yet.

Oh, and what I meant by 'taken off' the search engine Google was that is where the info came from, we had a communication breakdown there from our cultural divide.
In Australia if we say 'taken off', in the right context this means 'got from'.

Oct 7, 2003, 08:15 pm	#49 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	I do not like organized religion, but a system must exist to reduce the pressure caused by population pressure. Invent a workable system that works as well or better than the church, and I will be right behind you. But I do not think that the common man is ready to stand w/o the crutch the church provides. IOW: if the church were to disappear this instant, the people seek stability in forms of government that did not respect individual rights at all. Logical Fallicies Link

Oct 4, 2003, 01:32 pm	#41 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	Fallen, do you have a source for that info?--copyright rules and all ya know. Plus, I believe some of the info is incorrect. Without your source,(if I am missing it, I apologise)it makes it difficult for me to debate the info without writing a freakin' book in this post.

Oct 5, 2003, 07:01 pm	#42 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	Hmmmmmmm, FA how about the Crusades? Spanish Inquisitions? According to you I could argue that Christianity is evil. I know that Christianity isn't evil, they're just examples to prove that just because people use religion as a conduit to further their own hateful ways doesn't mean that the religion preaches hate. A modern day example is the pope, using religion to discriminate against homosexuals.

Oct 6, 2003, 12:36 pm	#43 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	FA, I still believe that Islam is a peaceful religion, because I judge it upon the teachings of the Qu'ran, not on the actions of some of its followers. I suggest you to do the same. And no the Qu'ran is not filled with hateful passages towards other religions, it has the same basic beliefs as Christianity and Judaism.

Oct 7, 2003, 10:54 am	#45 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	What about gay marriages? That is definently an obsticle in being gay, and this form of hate is spearheaded by the pope. I'm sure homosexual people will be happy if the pope left them alone and allowed them basic human rights.

Oct 7, 2003, 07:56 pm	#46 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	FA, leading back to my main point about abolishing the church, if the church were abolished none of the horrific events would have occured. At least ten million people would be alive and kicking ass. Ten million! Now answer me why abolishing the church is such a bad idea, and don't give me that "slavery of religion" bullshit. As stated earlier, all that I'm proposing is the abolishtion of organized religion. One would still be free to practice any religion that they choose. This would create renewed freedom, and stop horrible predjudices and massacres based upon religion.

Oct 7, 2003, 07:59 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	We need help to discriminate? Last time I looked polarized thinking was built into the system. Of course doing your thinking with your emotions makes it worse, but I try to discourage that. Our perceptions are always colored by another persons sex, gender, religion, and anything else we know about them. Only knowing enough about them that they fail to fit in a box very well cures that tendancy...

Oct 7, 2003, 08:00 pm	#48 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	GWB, organized religion helps fuel the discrimination machine. What's your opinion on abolishing the church?

Oct 8, 2003, 02:45 am	#52 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	FA, you've not answered my question yet. And yes the pope openly opposes gay marraige and uses his political and religious power to stop gay's rights.

Oct 8, 2003, 02:55 am	#53 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	I did answer your question Section 8, the Pope opposes Homosexuality in the Catholic Church, that is his opposition, if you don't like it then don't hang around with Catholics, there are plenty of other people you can talk with who have embraced gay issues in fear of being victim to a PC witch hunt.

Oct 8, 2003, 10:53 am	#55 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	Fallen, there are multiple sources for the material you posted. Here are the sources. You may want to cite them for legal reasons. http://www.satribune.com/archives/feb17_23...nion_bertil.htm http://www.bartleby.com/67/287.html

Oct 8, 2003, 06:08 pm	#57 (permalink) (top)
literaryroc Sedimentary Rock Posts: 2	FA - let me see if i understand this correctly (and this is a question of clarification, not an attack). first you state that you don't question your beliefs, i'm assuming you are meaning, your religion. the only time you would question your religion is if the pope all of a sudden announced that gay marriage was supported by the catholic religion. you stand in support of his thoughts and opposition of gay rights, and gay marriage. you believe that he is right and that as a catholic congregation - all must have this same opinion, because the pope is right. but... within this same discussion you mention the way that "another religion" treats woman. and that there should be no such treatment. why? just because they are women? women are human beings and the true argument here should be that no human being deserves to be stoned because they aren't wearing proper attire as it is stated by their religion. you say, question "another religion" for the mistreatment of a woman not dressed correctly according to their (wrongful) religion. But i will not question my own for the mistreatment of a human being because they love differently than i do as stated by my religion. i'm confused.