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tman_ndsu08 · Mar 17, 2006, 03:11 pm

Perfect example.

Today my step mom called the city to have the road plowed. But since we live in a culdesac, they wouldn't come through.

So finally today (three days after the now) they came through with a pickup which does nothing.

But they could care less. They're the city. They run the whole show around here. If you don't like it, who cares?

They have no incentive to do a good job. None.

someguymp3 · Mar 17, 2006, 03:39 pm

Do you not have elected representitives?

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 17, 2006, 05:16 pm

Yes. So what?

The next moron they put in there won't have an incentive to improve things.

someguymp3 · Mar 17, 2006, 06:34 pm

Well, if the person who is ultimately accountable fears for their re-election then that is incentive

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 17, 2006, 06:36 pm

That's only an incentive to get the most campaign money and to smear the other guys who are running.

someguymp3 · Mar 17, 2006, 06:43 pm

Maybe being pro-active and setting up a pressure group would help, rather than moaning

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 17, 2006, 07:08 pm

No. It wouldn't

What incentive does the government have to listen to a pressure group?

Morgan_Freeman · Mar 17, 2006, 10:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: someguymp3

Well, if the person who is ultimately accountable fears for their re-election then that is incentive

That's only an incentive to please 51% of the electorate. The other 49% gets fucked.

**Jack** · Mar 17, 2006, 11:08 pm

While I see your point and empathize with it in several contexts, I think "Incentive is the only human motivation" is a bit overstated. And "incentive" is a rather ill-defined word. Humans are motivated for a number of reasons, and all could perhaps be referred to as incentives, but then all you're really saying is that all humans do everything for a reason. No shit. :)
You are speaking of a specific motivation for a certain group of people (if one can honestly use that term in reference to bureaucrats), a topic with which I agree with you.

another day · Mar 18, 2006, 02:02 am

Of course...I'm tired of these silly assumptions that humans are divinely beings or somehow purely good. We are animals fighting to survive, of course people don't care abotu something unless it affects them in a positive or negative way. It's totally natural.

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 18, 2006, 09:48 am

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

While I see your point and empathize with it in several contexts, I think "Incentive is the only human motivation" is a bit overstated. And "incentive" is a rather ill-defined word. Humans are motivated for a number of reasons, and all could perhaps be referred to as incentives, but then all you're really saying is that all humans do everything for a reason. No shit. :)
You are speaking of a specific motivation for a certain group of people (if one can honestly use that term in reference to bureaucrats), a topic with which I agree with you.

I'm saying that altruism is a fantasy.

**Jack** · Mar 18, 2006, 10:03 am

Pure altruism without thought to reward most likely is. Even Mother Theresa did what she did in hopes of an eternal reward for both her and those she helped.

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 18, 2006, 10:18 am

That's the point.

There is no such thing as unpure altruism.

**Jack** · Mar 18, 2006, 12:31 pm

Quote:

That's the point.

There is no such thing as unpure altruism.

Ummm, I think you just contradicted your earlier point. Don't you mean there's no such thing as pure altruism?
Altruism= A quality opposed to Egoism. Actions tending to do good to others, regardless of self.

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 18, 2006, 01:51 pm

What I was saying is that altruism only exists in pure form.

IE, doing something for nothing.

And, of course, no one ever does that.

Which you could try to say is unpure altruism, but that doesn't exist. As soon as there's something in it for you, it's not altruism anymore.

**Jack** · Mar 18, 2006, 07:12 pm

Quote:

What I was saying is that altruism only exists in pure form.

OK, I get you.

Now where were we? Oh yeah...I agree.
Sorry, I've got nothing else...

someguymp3 · Mar 18, 2006, 07:48 pm

The topic is flawed anyhow because incentive and motivation are pretty much interchangable. It's like saying the only human motivation is motivation.

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 18, 2006, 10:50 pm

No.

The idea of altruism exists. This thread is here to disprove that.

Mar 17, 2006, 03:11 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Incentive is the only human motivation Perfect example. Today my step mom called the city to have the road plowed. But since we live in a culdesac, they wouldn't come through. So finally today (three days after the now) they came through with a pickup which does nothing. But they could care less. They're the city. They run the whole show around here. If you don't like it, who cares? They have no incentive to do a good job. None.

Mar 17, 2006, 11:08 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,997	While I see your point and empathize with it in several contexts, I think "Incentive is the only human motivation" is a bit overstated. And "incentive" is a rather ill-defined word. Humans are motivated for a number of reasons, and all could perhaps be referred to as incentives, but then all you're really saying is that all humans do everything for a reason. No shit. :) You are speaking of a specific motivation for a certain group of people (if one can honestly use that term in reference to bureaucrats), a topic with which I agree with you. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Mar 18, 2006, 10:03 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,997	Pure altruism without thought to reward most likely is. Even Mother Theresa did what she did in hopes of an eternal reward for both her and those she helped. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Mar 17, 2006, 03:39 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
someguymp3 Molten Ash Posts: 100	Do you not have elected representitives?

Mar 17, 2006, 05:16 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Yes. So what? The next moron they put in there won't have an incentive to improve things.

Mar 17, 2006, 06:34 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
someguymp3 Molten Ash Posts: 100	Well, if the person who is ultimately accountable fears for their re-election then that is incentive

Mar 17, 2006, 06:36 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	That's only an incentive to get the most campaign money and to smear the other guys who are running.

Mar 17, 2006, 06:43 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
someguymp3 Molten Ash Posts: 100	Maybe being pro-active and setting up a pressure group would help, rather than moaning

Mar 17, 2006, 07:08 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	No. It wouldn't What incentive does the government have to listen to a pressure group?

Mar 18, 2006, 02:02 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
another day slipping sand Posts: 1,802	Of course...I'm tired of these silly assumptions that humans are divinely beings or somehow purely good. We are animals fighting to survive, of course people don't care abotu something unless it affects them in a positive or negative way. It's totally natural.

Mar 18, 2006, 10:18 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	That's the point. There is no such thing as unpure altruism.

Mar 18, 2006, 01:51 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	What I was saying is that altruism only exists in pure form. IE, doing something for nothing. And, of course, no one ever does that. Which you could try to say is unpure altruism, but that doesn't exist. As soon as there's something in it for you, it's not altruism anymore.

Mar 18, 2006, 07:48 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
someguymp3 Molten Ash Posts: 100	The topic is flawed anyhow because incentive and motivation are pretty much interchangable. It's like saying the only human motivation is motivation.

Mar 18, 2006, 10:50 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	No. The idea of altruism exists. This thread is here to disprove that.