Jesus=God?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Back again with a mix of confusion and annoyance. Is Jesus, God?

Can Jesus be God? And what's the trinity about? And if there's a trinity with Jesus and God and the Ghost or something as the same entity, then how did God "create" Jesus? Or why did "Jesus" save us, and not God? If God wanted to send someone down to "save" us, even though we're probably worse in the 2000 years after him, why didn't he come down himself to tell us what was up? And why the separate entity?

I'll spare my other thousand questions for the posts.

[Boetie]

How come God couldn't tell Mary in person that he knocked her up?

I mean come on don't you think it's a little chickenshit to send an angel to tell the mother of your child that you are the father.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Back again with a mix of confusion and annoyance. Is Jesus, God? Can Jesus be God? And what's the trinity about? And if there's a trinity with Jesus and God and the Ghost or something as the same entity, then how did God "create" Jesus? Or why did "Jesus" save us, and not God? If God wanted to send someone down to "save" us, even though we're probably worse in the 2000 years after him, why didn't he come down himself to tell us what was up? And why the separate entity? I'll spare my other thousand questions for the posts.

ok, now, to start here, I will start in what is most likely the oldest book in the Bible, and possibly one of the oldest writings we have copies of, the book of Job. most likely, this book was written by an eyewitness, according to many of the teachers at Tennessee Temple Baptist Seminary, one of Job's friends. the setting would most likely be as old as the history of written history, pre or early Sumer times (given the lack of mentioning of important cities that Jews would be familiar with, evidence that the writer was most likely not Jewish). anyways, in the book of Job, we have pictures of two of the Trinity, namely, God the Son, and God the Father. in the early parts of the book, Satan comes to God and challenges Him, betting that Job would curse God if he were deprived of family and wealth, and later, his health. in each of these scenes, God "walks" while doing this. now, to my knowledge, something can't walk unless it has feet (of some type), and it can't have feet unless it has a physical form. now, we also see several times what Christians refer to as "Christographies," where Christ came down in the Old Testament times. two examples of this would be where Abraham talked with the Lord (who was in the form of a glorified being), and when there was a "fourth man" in the fiery furnace with Shadraq, Meshack, and Abednego. the Father is quite clearly illustrated throughout the Old and New Testament. the Spirit of the Lord is basically the being of God that embodies (not literally) His WILL. the Spirit of the Lord, in the New Testament is called the Holy Spirit, was shown many times in the Old Testament. that is the embodiment of God's will, everywhere the Spirit is mentioned, it is directly mentioned with guidance. the Spirit is also called the "presence of the Lord" in many places in the Old Testament, including in the cloud/pillar of fire in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers (not in order, so sue me.)

now, most people know the "canned argument" that is used in the New Testament, so, lets just skip over that and get to your main question: is Jesus God? the answer I have, most definitely, without a doubt, yes. we can see that through what investigators would call a profile matchup.

all-powerful: see the miracles and the ressurection.
all-loving: see the attitude behind the miracles and the teachings, and the motives for his death on the cross (John 3:16, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.)
all-knowing: Mark 2 illustrates how Jesus knew exactly what the pharisees were thinking (thinking that He was blaspheming by saying "son, thy sins be forgiven thee"), and then proved what He had said by curing his palsy ("son, take up thy bed and walk"). basically, he not only said that He was God, but He proved that He was God through that healing, no doubt you would believe at least that God was behind that healing if you witnessed a guy you had seen and known was crippled and unable to walk, suddenly get up and walk with the weight of his bed on top.
all-wise: refer to his teachings, especially the sermon on the mount. the rabbis of the day thought they could gain recognition by citing other older or long dead rabbis (something I know you here at volconvo hate). Jesus was an enigma of sorts, He had His own authority. He denied most of the teachings of the rabbis (teaching to love your enemy, while the rabbis taught the opposite) and cited Himself as an authority. He was so much of an enigma (yes, I like that word) that when He entered a city, He was asked to teach at many many places (back then it was common practice to invite a visiting teacher to the synagogue to teach. who better than God to teach what God commands?)

as of right now, that is the most my tired out mind can offer, I need some sleep, and my head feels like it is rolling around the dorm.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 ok, now, to start here, I will start in what is most likely the oldest book in the Bible, and possibly one of the oldest writings we have copies of, the book of Job. most likely, this book was written by an eyewitness, according to many of the teachers at Tennessee Temple Baptist Seminary, one of Job's friends. the setting would most likely be as old as the history of written history, pre or early Sumer times (given the lack of mentioning of important cities that Jews would be familiar with, evidence that the writer was most likely not Jewish). anyways, in the book of Job, we have pictures of two of the Trinity, namely, God the Son, and God the Father. in the early parts of the book, Satan comes to God and challenges Him, betting that Job would curse God if he were deprived of family and wealth, and later, his health. in each of these scenes, God "walks" while doing this. now, to my knowledge, something can't walk unless it has feet (of some type), and it can't have feet unless it has a physical form. now, we also see several times what Christians refer to as "Christographies," where Christ came down in the Old Testament times. two examples of this would be where Abraham talked with the Lord (who was in the form of a glorified being), and when there was a "fourth man" in the fiery furnace with Shadraq, Meshack, and Abednego. the Father is quite clearly illustrated throughout the Old and New Testament. the Spirit of the Lord is basically the being of God that embodies (not literally) His WILL. the Spirit of the Lord, in the New Testament is called the Holy Spirit, was shown many times in the Old Testament. that is the embodiment of God's will, everywhere the Spirit is mentioned, it is directly mentioned with guidance. the Spirit is also called the "presence of the Lord" in many places in the Old Testament, including in the cloud/pillar of fire in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers (not in order, so sue me.)

Dude, you could have summed that up in like 3 sentences. Here's what I gathered from the rubble that actually pertained to what I want to know...1) The Holy Spirit is the Will 2) The Spirit is present 3) There's a Father, a Son, and a God 4) The Holy Spirit is the 4th entity? Ok, still lost in this mess.

Quote by: dthmstr254 now, most people know the "canned argument" that is used in the New Testament, so, lets just skip over that and get to your main question: is Jesus God? the answer I have, most definitely, without a doubt, yes. we can see that through what investigators would call a profile matchup..

So God and Jesus are the same? So how can he be the father if he's the son, too? And why give separate names? Why not stick with just God? And if they are the same entity, who was up there in the sky while "Jesus" was down here, even though that was himself? And if God willingly came down then (in the form of Jesus or something) to show us his own self and to have faith in him, why not come down in person to everyone, instead of just showing a handful of people and even though he knows most will be skeptical? And even though he knows when he "creates" us that we will or will not be skeptical towards his existence, since he only revealed himself to some?

Quote by: dthmstr254 all-powerful: see the miracles and the ressurection. all-loving: see the attitude behind the miracles and the teachings, and the motives for his death on the cross (John 3:16, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.) all-knowing: Mark 2 illustrates how Jesus knew exactly what the pharisees were thinking (thinking that He was blaspheming by saying "son, thy sins be forgiven thee"), and then proved what He had said by curing his palsy ("son, take up thy bed and walk"). basically, he not only said that He was God, but He proved that He was God through that healing, no doubt you would believe at least that God was behind that healing if you witnessed a guy you had seen and known was crippled and unable to walk, suddenly get up and walk with the weight of his bed on top. all-wise: refer to his teachings, especially the sermon on the mount. the rabbis of the day thought they could gain recognition by citing other older or long dead rabbis (something I know you here at volconvo hate). Jesus was an enigma of sorts, He had His own authority. He denied most of the teachings of the rabbis (teaching to love your enemy, while the rabbis taught the opposite) and cited Himself as an authority. He was so much of an enigma (yes, I like that word) that when He entered a city, He was asked to teach at many many places (back then it was common practice to invite a visiting teacher to the synagogue to teach. who better than God to teach what God commands?).

This was a waste of time. Little relevance to the debate at hand, although it all seems childish.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Dude, you could have summed that up in like 3 sentences. Here's what I gathered from the rubble that actually pertained to what I want to know...1) The Holy Spirit is the Will 2) The Spirit is present 3) There's a Father, a Son, and a God 4) The Holy Spirit is the 4th entity? Ok, still lost in this mess.

sorry, I tend to overexplain everything I say when I really know what I am talking about. I will leave the concise arguments to those who are good at them.

to answer them:
1.) correct
2.) I don't quite understand
3.) God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Ghost/Spirit
4.) misconception.

So God and Jesus are the same? So how can he be the father if he's the son, too? And why give separate names? Why not stick with just God? And if they are the same entity, who was up there in the sky while "Jesus" was down here, even though that was himself? And if God willingly came down then (in the form of Jesus or something) to show us his own self and to have faith in him, why not come down in person to everyone, instead of just showing a handful of people and even though he knows most will be skeptical? And even though he knows when he "creates" us that we will or will not be skeptical towards his existence, since he only revealed himself to some?

I might get into a little bit of psychology and brain science with that realm. many brain scientists believe now that the mind is not a result of the brain (note that I did not say all). if it were, we could look at the brain and say that the mind was that one set of firing neurons. nobody can do that. several brain scientists in Britain did experiments where they had patients who were clinically dead for a certain amount of time (around ten seconds), yet revived, interviewed. they found that they had lucid thought patterns that included some conversations from patients that were sometimes down the hall while they were dead, sometimes whole floors away. this evidenced that something was leaving the body and had the ability to use all the normal senses.they chalked up that it had to be a mind. now, as a Christian, I believe in a trichotomy of the human. I believe we are body, mind, and soul. well the mind and soul aren't located in any one place in the body. you can't point to somewhere in the body and say "there is the soul." it is all over the body. it exists in the entire body, as does the mind. the study of psychology is literally, by definition, the study of the soul (because the prefix psyche- means soul, and the ending -ology means study of). taking that in a likeness of God, God is a trichotomous God, body being Jesus, mind being God, and Spirit being obviously the Holy Ghost. unlike us, God's mind and Spirit are universally located, which accounts for the omniscience. are we understanding this so far? or did I lose you somewhere in the maze of my sometimes haphazard thoughts? :)

PS: I will deal with the rest of the points later on, so, in case I forget to back up to here again, please remind me so I fully answer it. to many questions that need to be answered in a logical series that builds upon itself. my head already feels like it is rolling around the dorm, do I really need the confusion you are imparting to me?

This was a waste of time. Little relevance to the debate at hand, although it all seems childish.

actually, it is a direct answer to the question posted in the title: "Jesus=God?"
if you want to know who someone is in a crime, you take a profile of the actions of that person. I took the actions of Jesus and compared them to the explanation of God the Jews had. He fit everything I listed, and quite a few more, including righteous anger (when the vendors turned the temple in Jerusalem into a "den of thieves")

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 sorry, I tend to overexplain everything I say when I really know what I am talking about. I will leave the concise arguments to those who are good at them. to answer them: 1.) correct 2.) I don't quite understand 3.) God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Ghost/Spirit 4.) misconception. I might get into a little bit of psychology and brain science with that realm. many brain scientists believe now that the mind is not a result of the brain (note that I did not say all). if it were, we could look at the brain and say that the mind was that one set of firing neurons. nobody can do that. several brain scientists in Britain did experiments where they had patients who were clinically dead for a certain amount of time (around ten seconds), yet revived, interviewed. they found that they had lucid thought patterns that included some conversations from patients that were sometimes down the hall while they were dead, sometimes whole floors away. this evidenced that something was leaving the body and had the ability to use all the normal senses.they chalked up that it had to be a mind. now, as a Christian, I believe in a trichotomy of the human. I believe we are body, mind, and soul. well the mind and soul aren't located in any one place in the body. you can't point to somewhere in the body and say "there is the soul." it is all over the body. it exists in the entire body, as does the mind. the study of psychology is literally, by definition, the study of the soul (because the prefix psyche- means soul, and the ending -ology means study of). taking that in a likeness of God, God is a trichotomous God, body being Jesus, mind being God, and Spirit being obviously the Holy Ghost. unlike us, God's mind and Spirit are universally located, which accounts for the omniscience. are we understanding this so far? or did I lose you somewhere in the maze of my sometimes haphazard thoughts? :) PS: I will deal with the rest of the points later on, so, in case I forget to back up to here again, please remind me so I fully answer it. to many questions that need to be answered in a logical series that builds upon itself. my head already feels like it is rolling around the dorm, do I really need the confusion you are imparting to me? actually, it is a direct answer to the question posted in the title: "Jesus=God?" if you want to know who someone is in a crime, you take a profile of the actions of that person. I took the actions of Jesus and compared them to the explanation of God the Jews had. He fit everything I listed, and quite a few more, including righteous anger (when the vendors turned the temple in Jerusalem into a "den of thieves")

so Jesus (God) sacraficed himself to save the sins of man. Basically god sacraficed itself to save the sins of man.

[Jack]

Basically god sacraficed itself to save the sins of man.

...sins which the god that killed itself made possible in the first place. Yup, it's a story that really holds together.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Isherwood ...sins which the god that killed itself made possible in the first place. Yup, it's a story that really holds together.

Yeah, that's what I've never understood. God should just skip all this life stuff and place us all in heaven right away. Otherwise it is simply a pointless, wasteful exercise to see who will u etheir free will for "sin." That many will use their free will in such a way and disbelive in God is obvious.

Grandpa h.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 sorry, I tend to overexplain everything I say when I really know what I am talking about. I will leave the concise arguments to those who are good at them. to answer them: 1.) correct 2.) I don't quite understand 3.) God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Ghost/Spirit 4.) misconception.

How are there three things that are the same? Are they the same entities? Why have you avoided my barage of questions from the previous post?

Quote by: dthmstr254 I might get into a little bit of psychology and brain science with that realm. many brain scientists believe now that the mind is not a result of the brain (note that I did not say all). if it were, we could look at the brain and say that the mind was that one set of firing neurons. nobody can do that. several brain scientists in Britain did experiments where they had patients who were clinically dead for a certain amount of time (around ten seconds), yet revived, interviewed. they found that they had lucid thought patterns that included some conversations from patients that were sometimes down the hall while they were dead, sometimes whole floors away. this evidenced that something was leaving the body and had the ability to use all the normal senses.they chalked up that it had to be a mind. now, as a Christian, I believe in a trichotomy of the human. I believe we are body, mind, and soul. well the mind and soul aren't located in any one place in the body. you can't point to somewhere in the body and say "there is the soul." it is all over the body. it exists in the entire body, as does the mind. the study of psychology is literally, by definition, the study of the soul (because the prefix psyche- means soul, and the ending -ology means study of). taking that in a likeness of God, God is a trichotomous God, body being Jesus, mind being God, and Spirit being obviously the Holy Ghost. unlike us, God's mind and Spirit are universally located, which accounts for the omniscience. are we understanding this so far? or did I lose you somewhere in the maze of my sometimes haphazard thoughts? :)

Once again, because I realize this is dthmstr254, care to give any evidence to this? Let's try avoiding those hardcore Christian sites, because I know how much you love them. They always seem to go in your favor...

But really, quite an imaginative belief. Sounds like it came from a third grader though. This is the 21st century. We know the mind comes from the brain. And yes, we can look at the brain and say these bundles of fibers cause specific thought patterns and body movements. It's not that hard. The problem is finding specific enough movements and thoughts for experiementation and for health advancement.

And these conversations, the ones you give no evidence of, explain them more. Was it just voices in the hallways no one could explain? Was it the voice of the "dead" person. And how "dead" is the person? And if there are random voices in the hallways, usually given to the placement of ghosts (no, I don't want your opinion on ghosts), how many people were there to hear the voices? Probably one or two.

And anyways, "gyne"cology is the study of female reproductive organs, not the entire female, which is what "gyne" refers to in Greek. Like Psychology, "Psych" now refers more to mind, rather than soul, since no one knows what the soul is, and it's anybodys imaginative guess as to what a soul could look like. That's why it's safe to say they don't exist.

So you're saying that whenever someone, Old or New Testament, saw God, they saw Jesus? So Jesus controls the body, like movements and stuff through his brain or something, while God is just a lifeless electric attachment in his neurons that surround thought capabilities? I think you need to go back to psychology class or realize that this figment of so many imaginations is totally screwed up psychologically. Maybe this explains the bi-polar attitudes in the New and Old testament...

Quote by: dthmstr254 PS: I will deal with the rest of the points later on, so, in case I forget to back up to here again, please remind me so I fully answer it. to many questions that need to be answered in a logical series that builds upon itself. my head already feels like it is rolling around the dorm, do I really need the confusion you are imparting to me?

It's really not that hard of a question. You just tend to realize your possible errors and so cloud them in possible errored examples and errored anaylsis. For example, you could have just flat out told me your position: God is a trichometry, like a human, because Jesus is the body, God is the mind that is a separate entity, like a human, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit that can't be found anywhere in the body but is the body. I mean, that sounds like me recanting what I learned from CCD class when I was young and thoughtless. No one knew what the hell they were talking about until our teachers and parents kept drilling it into their minds, even though the jumble didn't make sense.

Quote by: dthmstr254 actually, it is a direct answer to the question posted in the title: "Jesus=God?" if you want to know who someone is in a crime, you take a profile of the actions of that person. I took the actions of Jesus and compared them to the explanation of God the Jews had. He fit everything I listed, and quite a few more, including righteous anger (when the vendors turned the temple in Jerusalem into a "den of thieves")

No, it's not. If I wanted a fairy tale response, I'd ask a more creative theist. You analysis fits no where in modern psychology with your basis of a separate mind, and you have absolutely no proof or evidence of a soul, nor have you given it a substance, a mass, or volume, or even thought pattern to which it is fixed, that could even come close to justifying your claim of spiritual existence. A fairy tale. The end.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: grandpa Yeah, that's what I've never understood. God should just skip all this life stuff and place us all in heaven right away. Otherwise it is simply a pointless, wasteful exercise to see who will u etheir free will for "sin." That many will use their free will in such a way and disbelive in God is obvious. Grandpa h.

The best part is you can be a complete ass your whole life, all 80 years of your life for example, then at the last minute forgive your sins, and pow! heaven you go. Yet there are so many good atheists, muslims, and buddhists who are told by Christians that they will go to hell for not believing. It's a big joke. :rolleyes:

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Isherwood ...sins which the god that killed itself made possible in the first place. Yup, it's a story that really holds together.

The sad thing, Ish, is that they don't realize the circles they keep making...

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 How are there three things that are the same? Are they the same entities? Why have you avoided my barage of questions from the previous post?

to answer them in a logical sense

Once again, because I realize this is dthmstr254, care to give any evidence to this? Let's try avoiding those hardcore Christian sites, because I know how much you love them. They always seem to go in your favor...

well, I doubt that David G Myer's Exploring Psychology would be a Christian source at all. Myers is an expert in psychology, making him a fully acceptable source for this. to cite a biology source, I cite Ricki Lewis's Life chapter 31, which deals with the Nervous System.

But really, quite an imaginative belief. Sounds like it came from a third grader though. This is the 21st century. We know the mind comes from the brain. And yes, we can look at the brain and say these bundles of fibers cause specific thought patterns and body movements. It's not that hard. The problem is finding specific enough movements and thoughts for experiementation and for health advancement.

specific MEMORIES, not cognition, not emotion, shoot, logical thought tends to cause the supposed machines they are supposed to see the action in the brain say the entire brain is going crazy, plus they can only see the actions of the white matter, which is sending action potentials everywhere like crazy anyways, and at speeds highest in the brain, because of the myelin sheaths speeding up the movement.

And these conversations, the ones you give no evidence of, explain them more. Was it just voices in the hallways no one could explain? Was it the voice of the "dead" person. And how "dead" is the person? And if there are random voices in the hallways, usually given to the placement of ghosts (no, I don't want your opinion on ghosts), how many people were there to hear the voices? Probably one or two.

actually, they were in patients' rooms "down the hall". these rooms are closed when the doctor is giving the diagnosis. the people had no connection to the ones with memories of their problems after revival. the deadness of the person was to the point that the brain had shut down to below 5% activity (approximately ten minutes). they even decided to have a control mechanism and bring in someone from another country to have a conversation down the hall on Marfan's Syndrome (a rare type of heart disease which causes irregular heartbeat, mitral valve prolapse, weakening of the heart muscle, and eventually death. otuward symptoms include having an armspan longer than your height, underweight, and, for some odd reason, big feet and fingers.). of the persons who had participated in the study, 25% of the people recalled the height and armspan of the person mentioned, 34% said that Marfan's syndrome was being spoken of, 10% recalled which room it was in, and 50% said that heart disease was being spoken of (mind, the numbers overlap). someone tell me, how did they come by this information?

And anyways, "gyne"cology is the study of female reproductive organs, not the entire female, which is what "gyne" refers to in Greek. Like Psychology, "Psych" now refers more to mind, rather than soul, since no one knows what the soul is, and it's anybodys imaginative guess as to what a soul could look like. That's why it's safe to say they don't exist.

and notice that the psychology books I have, many secular psychology journals, and most psychologists still hold to the traditional definition being SOUL, not MIND. so you are saying that emotions don't exist? the mind is logic. mind games deal with logic. almost every time you see mind referred to, it is dealing with logic.

So you're saying that whenever someone, Old or New Testament, saw God, they saw Jesus? So Jesus controls the body, like movements and stuff through his brain or something, while God is just a lifeless electric attachment in his neurons that surround thought capabilities? I think you need to go back to psychology class or realize that this figment of so many imaginations is totally screwed up psychologically. Maybe this explains the bi-polar attitudes in the New and Old testament...

oh, you really screwed up what I said. I said to TAKE IT ON A LARGER SCALE. reread and notice that I was taking it to the larger scale by saying that Jesus is the physical manifestation of God, while God is omnipresent (everywhere).

It's really not that hard of a question. You just tend to realize your possible errors and so cloud them in possible errored examples and errored anaylsis. For example, you could have just flat out told me your position: God is a trichometry, like a human, because Jesus is the body, God is the mind that is a separate entity, like a human, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit that can't be found anywhere in the body but is the body. I mean, that sounds like me recanting what I learned from CCD class when I was young and thoughtless. No one knew what the hell they were talking about until our teachers and parents kept drilling it into their minds, even though the jumble didn't make sense.

and if you ever listened to what I said, you would know that you might have well just thrown my paragraph into a blender to pull what you pulled out.

No, it's not. If I wanted a fairy tale response, I'd ask a more creative theist. You analysis fits no where in modern psychology with your basis of a separate mind, and you have absolutely no proof or evidence of a soul, nor have you given it a substance, a mass, or volume, or even thought pattern to which it is fixed, that could even come close to justifying your claim of spiritual existence. A fairy tale. The end.

it fits in well with David G Myers. he has his psychology books in many colleges across the US and Europe. game set and match. this is over unless you can actually pull up some psychological journals from someone who denies that Dr Myers is a credible psychologist.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez so Jesus (God) sacraficed himself to save the sins of man. Basically god sacraficed itself to save the sins of man.

in a sense, yes. in another sense, no. if God is all-powerful and omnipotent and infinite, then this would be perfectly possible.

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 in a sense, yes. in another sense, no. if God is all-powerful and omnipotent and infinite, then this would be perfectly possible.

no the point is how retarded the whole process is. Why do all religions require some kind of sacrafice to happen to appease some type of supreme entity

[grandpa]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 The best part is you can be a complete ass your whole life, all 80 years of your life for example, then at the last minute forgive your sins, and pow! heaven you go. Yet there are so many good atheists, muslims, and buddhists who are told by Christians that they will go to hell for not believing. It's a big joke. :rolleyes:

Yep.
Grandpa h.

[Jack]

specific MEMORIES, not cognition, not emotion, shoot, logical thought tends to cause the supposed machines they are supposed to see the action in the brain say the entire brain is going crazy, plus they can only see the actions of the white matter, which is sending action potentials everywhere like crazy anyways, and at speeds highest in the brain, because of the myelin sheaths speeding up the movement.

If you're going to take every instance in which science does not have enough knowledge to determine the exact processes involved and jump right to "it's god", then we shouldn't try to understand anything scientifically. Lightening might as well still be thought of as god's manifestation of power. We might as well not go to the doctor to cure our ills. We might as well never open any book for knowledge but the bible (there must be something in there to explain those pesky fossils).

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Isherwood If you're going to take every instance in which science does not have enough knowledge to determine the exact processes involved and jump right to "it's god", then we shouldn't try to understand anything scientifically. Lightening might as well still be thought of as god's manifestation of power. We might as well not go to the doctor to cure our ills. We might as well never open any book for knowledge but the bible (there must be something in there to explain those pesky fossils).

huh?!?!? :eek: where in tarnation did you pull that from? I was simply stating more of the supporting evidence that the mind was not part of the brain and neither was the soul. and to explain those pesky fossils, I refer to the process of methanization (turning carbon and water into methane and oxygen), which also lends evidence to the flood, because covering the world with water would move enough sediments all over the place, destroying or covering fossils, and the water that covered the fossils would react with the carbon (every isotope, at different rates, which would explain the imbalance of isotopes, as it does in something that you do methanization to in a lab today.) changing the balance of isotopes or removing all the carbon from the fossil. this would account for the extreme age of the fossils, and the fact that you could test the rock from the recent eruption of Mt Saint Helens and find results that tell you that it was some 49 billion years old, I really doubt that dating mechanism. as for the potassium argon dating mechanism, what happens when you mix water and potassium? a small version of what happens when you mix sodium and water (fire!!!! ). considering that those are the two dating mechanisms most used on the fossil record, we got an issue.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez no the point is how retarded the whole process is. Why do all religions require some kind of sacrafice to happen to appease some type of supreme entity

because that is what the original required. all the way back in Job you can find reference to it, and considering Job is one of the first written works in human history, that is pretty far back.

[Sinner]

Isherwood ...sins which the god that killed itself made possible in the first place. Yup, it's a story that really holds together.

The only way to guarantee that people wouldn't sin is to deprive them of freedom. Is this what you would expect from a loving God?
He gave us example of supreme love and self-sacrifice, yet He didn't interfere with our freedom.

grandpa Yeah, that's what I've never understood. God should just skip all this life stuff and place us all in heaven right away. Otherwise it is simply a pointless, wasteful exercise to see who will u etheir free will for "sin." That many will use their free will in such a way and disbelive in God is obvious. Grandpa h.

He doesn't need all of us. He only wants those who love Him willingly. Christianity is not recruitment of as many as possible, but selection of worthy.
Obviously most people would misuse their freedom this is expected.

SoccerfreakAB2 The best part is you can be a complete ass your whole life, all 80 years of your life for example, then at the last minute forgive your sins, and pow! heaven you go. Yet there are so many good atheists, muslims, and buddhists who are told by Christians that they will go to hell for not believing. It's a big joke.

You cannot fool God. In order to be forgiven one must wholeheartly repent. If one lived 80 years in sin, the sin would become part of his personality and he wouldn't be able to repent as he should.
As for atheists, muslims, budhists etc. I don't know their fate it is ut to God to judge them. Yet, I am not optimistic at all. Not all Christians will be saved, what hope have those who oppose Christ?

rez no the point is how retarded the whole process is. Why do all religions require some kind of sacrafice to happen to appease some type of supreme entity

Because people who are saved become God's friends. He expects them to pass certain tests in order to deserve this.