Jesus=God?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 What reward has already been given and HOW and WHY?

you are asking the wrong person a question that he won't know. I ain't a universalist. you can find one of them and ask them. they are rampant in Australia.

We weren't talking about heaven, though, I meant hell. Not believing in every major religion sends you to some sort of hell, making the stakes for you being wrong very high. So the atheist/theist split is a 50/50. But among your theist 50% are all the other religions, making you like 1%, less than that actually.

huh, could you please cut this down? if there are two exclusive, than the theist group is a 50/50 split.

He would see fit that he gets recognition? Is he a loner or some kind of loser? Does a God really have needs like that? That's not a good start.

look at the gods described by the now dead religions we do know of. they fought eachother and demanded things like child sacrifices. if that is the real god, then to your question of "is he a loser?" in a word, yes.

My priest, when I was a kid, said that Christians worship the cross...

if a Christian worships the cross, he is worshipping the wrong thing. that cross is not what rose from the dead. that cross is not what redeemed his soul. that cross didn't come down here to be spat upon, beaten, shamed, stripped, and killed for you. Jesus did that for you. even in songs like "Old Rugged Cross" the cross is just a stepping stone to the centerpiece of the song. there are lines that continually point to the focus of our belief such as "And I love that old cross where the dearest and best, For a world of lost sinners was slain." and "For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above, To bear it to dark Calvary." and "For 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died, To pardon and sanctify me."

And how do you know a piece of rock won't do anything for someone? There are still theistic idols today, anyways. And you have no proof against or for their validation for something to prayer into. And what's the difference between praying to a doll and praying to nothing at all?

and ain't a single one of them that wasn't the result of the false teaching known as iconoclasm. would you like me to list the sins related to this? or shall we move on?

What is a universal belief? And your last statement on hinduism is false, you don't go straight to heaven for not being a hindu.

or is it Hinduism that has the whole reincarnation process? I get them all mixed up all the time.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 incorrect. loyalty is a concept, very much real, but intangible. just because you touch them and think them loyal, doesn't mean that the next second, they won't turn around and drop you like yesterday's news. love is an action, and is thus, also intangible. religion is not inside the mind, it is inside the heart and life and soul of a person. one of my friends told me this fun quote, "if what you believe doesn't change your life, then maybe you should change what you believe."

How is loyalty real then, and not any other imaginative concept??

Let me slow things down for you, like usual...

Loyality is a concept. Let's also says the concept of life on pluto exists (there's no life on pluto). These are both concepts, so how do they not have equal validity in being REAL? Concepts within the mind can go unproven, like the God of yours. So I suppose if what you say is true, that concepts in the mind, though intangible, are real, then that means anything you think of is real, because one thought is equal in validity to any other. Animals do not experience loyalty, so to them, for instance, it wouldn't be real. But to us it is real. Therefore, your theory contradicts itself in you trying to prove God's existence as a concept of the mind, because every other God and religion is proven in the same instance.

This is why I hate debating you:

"religion is not inside the mind, it is inside the heart and life and soul of a person."

So you don't think of praying, faith, believing, bible analyzation, etc.? That all occurs in your right ventricle of your heart I guess. Clearly, the heart is a muscle organ that transports blood, but in your fairy tale it has to do with love. Fine if you want to live in your own little world where the heart is not an organ, where you can say "objectively" that religion is in a soul, even though no such thing has ever been found to exist, then go for it, just don't say those things when we're having n objective debate, because you have absolutely no evidence for what you're saying. Then, I could make up my own beliefs to counter yours and we'd truly go no where.

Why should what you believe change your life? I'm sure in your case it's probably a mix of low self-confidence and some other troubling emotional imbalances, but at least I understand the reason why you wish to confuse yourself about the nature of the universe.

Quote by: dthmstr254 the supernatural cannot be experienced on earth physically. it occurs to ones soul. your response reminds me of the story of Elijah and the "still, small voice." Elijah set on a mountain and watched a tornado, a fire, and an earthquake go by, and God wasn't in those. but when that still small voice came, God was in that. the Hebrew phrase here was "D@mama Daq qowl" which literally translated means a calm and peaceful knowledge.

It occurs to you're soul? Where's that in my biology textbook? Oh yeah, it's not there, because people made it up, that's right.

So how do you know you're soul picks up the supernatural? With what sensors? And how do this connect to the brain so you can analyze what you've discovereed? And how do you know you've even discovered the supernatural is you can't see, feel, touch, or think of it? That's probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard about the idea of a soul.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 you are asking the wrong person a question that he won't know. I ain't a universalist. you can find one of them and ask them. they are rampant in Australia..

Great so you don't know what you're even talking about. Just splendid. But what more could I expect.

Quote by: dthmstr254 huh, could you please cut this down? if there are two exclusive, than the theist group is a 50/50 split.

If I even know what you mean by exclusive, then all religions are exclusive, meaning, from what I've gathered, that they separate believers from nonbelievers. So there is no 50/50 split in the theist camp.

Quote by: dthmstr254 look at the gods described by the now dead religions we do know of. they fought eachother and demanded things like child sacrifices. if that is the real god, then to your question of "is he a loser?" in a word, yes.

Your god required animal sacrifices, too. He even wanted one of the guys in the old testament to kill his son, but at the last second ordered it off, like some sick joke. You're God destroyed two cities full of innocent and bad people together; like, he might as well wipe out any city today. He murdered many opponents and asked many to murder opponents and commit to war. YOUR god is the real asshole.

Quote by: dthmstr254 if a Christian worships the cross, he is worshipping the wrong thing. that cross is not what rose from the dead. that cross is not what redeemed his soul. that cross didn't come down here to be spat upon, beaten, shamed, stripped, and killed for you. Jesus did that for you. even in songs like "Old Rugged Cross" the cross is just a stepping stone to the centerpiece of the song. there are lines that continually point to the focus of our belief such as "And I love that old cross where the dearest and best, For a world of lost sinners was slain." and "For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above, To bear it to dark Calvary." and "For 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died, To pardon and sanctify me."

I guess that leaves the theists splits on issues again...No surprise there...

Quote by: dthmstr254 and ain't a single one of them that wasn't the result of the false teaching known as iconoclasm. would you like me to list the sins related to this? or shall we move on?

It's false teaching in your opinion, you mean, since like all your other supernatural beliefs, they mean jack shit when compared to one another, such as praying to idols. You can't harp on idol worshippers when you don't even worship anything, since idols are representations of theistic beliefs, much like the cross that my church worshipped when I was young.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Great so you don't know what you're even talking about. Just splendid. But what more could I expect.

youasked me a question about a reward that has "already been given." I have never heard or seen this doctrine before. you might want to ask someone who knows, and not ask me to expound on a quote I gave you.

If I even know what you mean by exclusive, then all religions are exclusive, meaning, from what I've gathered, that they separate believers from nonbelievers. So there is no 50/50 split in the theist camp.

no, only theistic religions (of which there are 2) are exclusive.

Your god required animal sacrifices, too. He even wanted one of the guys in the old testament to kill his son, but at the last second ordered it off, like some sick joke. You're God destroyed two cities full of innocent and bad people together; like, he might as well wipe out any city today. He murdered many opponents and asked many to murder opponents and commit to war. YOUR god is the real asshole.

God was never going to have Abraham kill his son. otherwise, why put a ram in the bush? he destroyed Sodom of Gomorrah because He could not find even ten that were good (check his long conversation with Abraham), but he spared Lot's family-the wife that looked back. He commanded Israel to take the land promised to them long back and in the process a group of people whose descendants sook to destroy them were partially wiped out. twould have been better if they had been. there would be no argument over the Iraq war.

I guess that leaves the theists splits on issues again...No surprise there...

not really, check your Bible. if they worship the cross, they aren't Christians according to it. it is an instrument.

It's false teaching in your opinion, you mean, since like all your other supernatural beliefs, they mean jack shit when compared to one another, such as praying to idols. You can't harp on idol worshippers when you don't even worship anything, since idols are representations of theistic beliefs, much like the cross that my church worshipped when I was young.

correction there. we were saved not by silver or gold or material things, but by Jesus Christ. He is Lord. idols are dead twigs. my God is a living God. and because He lives, I can face tomorrow. because He lives, all fear is gone. Because I know He holds the future, my life is worht the living just because He lives.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 How is loyalty real then, and not any other imaginative concept?? Let me slow things down for you, like usual... Loyality is a concept. Let's also says the concept of life on pluto exists (there's no life on pluto). These are both concepts, so how do they not have equal validity in being REAL? Concepts within the mind can go unproven, like the God of yours. So I suppose if what you say is true, that concepts in the mind, though intangible, are real, then that means anything you think of is real, because one thought is equal in validity to any other. Animals do not experience loyalty, so to them, for instance, it wouldn't be real. But to us it is real. Therefore, your theory contradicts itself in you trying to prove God's existence as a concept of the mind, because every other God and religion is proven in the same instance. This is why I hate debating you: "religion is not inside the mind, it is inside the heart and life and soul of a person." So you don't think of praying, faith, believing, bible analyzation, etc.? That all occurs in your right ventricle of your heart I guess. Clearly, the heart is a muscle organ that transports blood, but in your fairy tale it has to do with love. Fine if you want to live in your own little world where the heart is not an organ, where you can say "objectively" that religion is in a soul, even though no such thing has ever been found to exist, then go for it, just don't say those things when we're having n objective debate, because you have absolutely no evidence for what you're saying. Then, I could make up my own beliefs to counter yours and we'd truly go no where. Why should what you believe change your life? I'm sure in your case it's probably a mix of low self-confidence and some other troubling emotional imbalances, but at least I understand the reason why you wish to confuse yourself about the nature of the universe.

you really have some inability to imagine past the walls you have boxed yourself in don't you. what I believe changes my life because what I believe changes my very soul. heart, soul, in that sentence, they are interchangeable, and no I am not referring to cardiac tissue and dendrite-axon synapses. right now, what I believe changes my life because, before, my life was worth nothing, and now, it is worth everything to God. and it is not because of something I have done. that is why my belief changes my life.

It occurs to you're soul? Where's that in my biology textbook? Oh yeah, it's not there, because people made it up, that's right. So how do you know you're soul picks up the supernatural? With what sensors? And how do this connect to the brain so you can analyze what you've discovereed? And how do you know you've even discovered the supernatural is you can't see, feel, touch, or think of it? That's probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard about the idea of a soul.

drop the biology book into the dustbin and think outside the box. if something has ever happened to you that you couldn't explain naturally, no matter what you did, you would understand. but if you don't look for something, how can you expect to find it?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 youasked me a question about a reward that has "already been given." I have never heard or seen this doctrine before. you might want to ask someone who knows, and not ask me to expound on a quote I gave you.

Well make sure when you're quoting something to prove a point, you know what it's talking about.

Quote by: dthmstr254 no, only theistic religions (of which there are 2) are exclusive.

Then what do you mean by exclusive???

Quote by: dthmstr254 God was never going to have Abraham kill his son. otherwise, why put a ram in the bush? he destroyed Sodom of Gomorrah because He could not find even ten that were good (check his long conversation with Abraham), but he spared Lot's family-the wife that looked back. He commanded Israel to take the land promised to them long back and in the process a group of people whose descendants sook to destroy them were partially wiped out. twould have been better if they had been. there would be no argument over the Iraq war..

You don't know that. Just because at the last minute he decided not to. And actually, in my European history class, that was one of the sections of the Bible that was edited by the popes frequently in the middle ages. I'm sure God ordered his death and they knew it looked bad.

So God makes people, he knows they will be bad because he gives us free will...then he kills them...that makes sense. So many "bad" people. Yeah that's realistic. What a fairy tale. And the whole wife that looked back part, yeah that totally sounds like it was stolen from Greek mythology, or else that would be a really asshole move. The group of people didn't want their land taken away, no shit they were going to fight for it, even if the people who are taking your land crying out, "God wills it." Kind of like how you probably wouldn't leave your home if a Muslim man ran up and said, "leave now, Allah wills it."

Quote by: dthmstr254 not really, check your Bible. if they worship the cross, they aren't Christians according to it. it is an instrument..

Worship="The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object."

I rest my case.

Quote by: dthmstr254 correction there. we were saved not by silver or gold or material things, but by Jesus Christ. He is Lord. idols are dead twigs. my God is a living God. and because He lives, I can face tomorrow. because He lives, all fear is gone. Because I know He holds the future, my life is worht the living just because He lives.

Yeah, you're not afraid of anything, I mean you could like take on the world, couldn't you? And if he was dead, would you know it? Maybe you'd get a twitch in your eye or something, you know, some how your soul would sense it, though we have no idea where or how or why...haha, what a joke.

If money doesn't matter to you, then why don't you go broke and forsake money itself? Why aren't you outside begging like Jesus did?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 you really have some inability to imagine past the walls you have boxed yourself in don't you. what I believe changes my life because what I believe changes my very soul. heart, soul, in that sentence, they are interchangeable, and no I am not referring to cardiac tissue and dendrite-axon synapses. right now, what I believe changes my life because, before, my life was worth nothing, and now, it is worth everything to God. and it is not because of something I have done. that is why my belief changes my life.

Your sentences make you sound like your still nine years old: "what I believe changes my life because what I believe changes my very soul." Uhh...what? Once again, what is the soul? Where is it? How do you sense something with it? And why are you not answering these questions? Is it because you have absolutely no idea what your talking about? Yes, I think so.

Wait, so if you had no religion in your life, your life would instead by worth nothing? Bullshit, I have no God and my life is worth everything to me. Make up all the excuses you want, religion is an unnecessary tool of emotion and comfort and your strapped in tight. What is your life worth before and after believing? What about the others of different religions? Are their lives worth less? Why? What makes that reasoning valid?

See, your pathetic justifications for believing only bring more questions to the table. So you have fun suppressing your ability to comprehend objectivity.

Quote by: dthmstr254 drop the biology book into the dustbin and think outside the box. if something has ever happened to you that you couldn't explain naturally, no matter what you did, you would understand. but if you don't look for something, how can you expect to find it?

Yes, there we go. Drop biology, math, physics, history, science, drop everything and believe what I am saying. I bet you've been hearing that all your life because your retorting it right back to me. How dare you forsake education and objectivity for that bullshit reasoning given by your priest of a "soul" that has absolutely no existance in the real world? How can you possibly give such a shitty reputation to mankind by completely ignoring our environment and instead tuning into your own mental world of dthmstr?

Outside the box? That means asking/answering questions objectively, not forgetting our objective educations, what we've learned, experienced, from ALL paths, people, places, books, etc. It appears your stuck in the box and I wish I could get you out.

Define "look for something." With my experience with you, that would phrase translates into "believe it" like the only way to be a Christian is to be a Christian. No shit.

If I couldn't explain something, which I can(not), the universe for instance, I ignore it. Yet, interestingly enough, I find that my fellow man, probably 90% of him, chooses instead to create and follow their OWN answers that they make for each other. I refuse to lie to myself with these religions. However, I use that drive to know the truth as a motive for searching for the true answers, the real answers in our environment, or at least those that can be understood and sensed by our minds and bodies.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Your sentences make you sound like your still nine years old: "what I believe changes my life because what I believe changes my very soul." Uhh...what? Once again, what is the soul? Where is it? How do you sense something with it? And why are you not answering these questions? Is it because you have absolutely no idea what your talking about? Yes, I think so. Wait, so if you had no religion in your life, your life would instead by worth nothing? Bullshit, I have no God and my life is worth everything to me. Make up all the excuses you want, religion is an unnecessary tool of emotion and comfort and your strapped in tight. What is your life worth before and after believing? What about the others of different religions? Are their lives worth less? Why? What makes that reasoning valid? See, your pathetic justifications for believing only bring more questions to the table. So you have fun suppressing your ability to comprehend objectivity.

drop everything and I bet you have nothing. if I drop everything I do on this earth,I still have something you will never have. oh, and before I go on, here is the definition of soul:

The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness (heaven) or misery (hell) in a future state.

Yes, there we go. Drop biology, math, physics, history, science, drop everything and believe what I am saying. I bet you've been hearing that all your life because your retorting it right back to me. How dare you forsake education and objectivity for that bullshit reasoning given by your priest of a "soul" that has absolutely no existance in the real world? How can you possibly give such a shitty reputation to mankind by completely ignoring our environment and instead tuning into your own mental world of dthmstr? Outside the box? That means asking/answering questions objectively, not forgetting our objective educations, what we've learned, experienced, from ALL paths, people, places, books, etc. It appears your stuck in the box and I wish I could get you out. Define "look for something." With my experience with you, that would phrase translates into "believe it" like the only way to be a Christian is to be a Christian. No shit. If I couldn't explain something, which I can(not), the universe for instance, I ignore it. Yet, interestingly enough, I find that my fellow man, probably 90% of him, chooses instead to create and follow their OWN answers that they make for each other. I refuse to lie to myself with these religions. However, I use that drive to know the truth as a motive for searching for the true answers, the real answers in our environment, or at least those that can be understood and sensed by our minds and bodies.

and when you run into a roadblock, such as, the impossibility of evolution even being science (can't be either of the two major types of science, which are observational and experimental), what do you do, just ignore it like you have thus far? I don't claim academics. I claim a personal relationship with my Abba father. I sense Him with my soul, as you would if you would open the door. if you could go with me to what I was before I met Him, I probably beat you in that belief. I was the uber agnostic/atheist. I read in search for information where I now read for the sake of reading. my god was my self. my whole world didn't extend past the little bubble I had created. granted, I didn't have much time to get anything under my belt, but hey, I didn't believe it unless you proved it to me. my favorite shows were things like NOVA and Law & Order, things where evidence stacked for the case of something. you want me to go farther in my past?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Well make sure when you're quoting something to prove a point, you know what it's talking about.

I wasn't going to prove a point. you asked me what universalism was. I followed with a quote addressing the question from a universalist site. then you tried to delve deeper into something I had told you at the beginning I had no clue about.

Then what do you mean by exclusive???

ever heard of "my way or the highway." well, in exclusive religions (of which there are currently 2), my way=heaven, highway=hell. make sense now?

You don't know that. Just because at the last minute he decided not to. And actually, in my European history class, that was one of the sections of the Bible that was edited by the popes frequently in the middle ages. I'm sure God ordered his death and they knew it looked bad. So God makes people, he knows they will be bad because he gives us free will...then he kills them...that makes sense. So many "bad" people. Yeah that's realistic. What a fairy tale. And the whole wife that looked back part, yeah that totally sounds like it was stolen from Greek mythology, or else that would be a really asshole move. The group of people didn't want their land taken away, no shit they were going to fight for it, even if the people who are taking your land crying out, "God wills it." Kind of like how you probably wouldn't leave your home if a Muslim man ran up and said, "leave now, Allah wills it."

only thing is, the KJV part evidently isn't from the parts the pope edited. it corresponds directly with the Old Testament copy found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. kind of funny how they managed that if the pope edited it. :rolleyes:
secondly, he warned her. if a Muslim man runs up and says that, I would probably wonder what drugs he was on. oh, and they found the city, if you would like to visit the dig.

Worship="The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object." I rest my case.

what is the function of the "OR" conjunction? I choose to worship a deity. therefore, I rest my case. :)

Yeah, you're not afraid of anything, I mean you could like take on the world, couldn't you? And if he was dead, would you know it? Maybe you'd get a twitch in your eye or something, you know, some how your soul would sense it, though we have no idea where or how or why...haha, what a joke. If money doesn't matter to you, then why don't you go broke and forsake money itself? Why aren't you outside begging like Jesus did?

because money matters to the people who I pay for my education. hey, I have to pay them somehow. what, you want me to pay them with grain?

[Marilyn Monroe]

[quote=SoccerfreakAB2]




I might get into a little bit of psychology and brain science with that realm. many brain scientists believe now that the mind is not a result of the brain (note that I did not say all). if it were, we could look at the brain and say that the mind was that one set of firing neurons. nobody can do that. several brain scientists in Britain did experiments where they had patients who were clinically dead for a certain amount of time (around ten seconds), yet revived, interviewed. they found that they had lucid thought patterns that included some conversations from patients that were sometimes down the hall while they were dead, sometimes whole floors away. this evidenced that something was leaving the body and had the ability to use all the normal senses.they chalked up that it had to be a mind. now, as a Christian, I believe in a trichotomy of the human. I believe we are body, mind, and soul. well the mind and soul aren't located in any one place in the body. you can't point to somewhere in the body and say "there is the soul." it is all over the body. it exists in the entire body, as does the mind. the study of psychology is literally, by definition, the study of the soul (because the prefix psyche- means soul, and the ending -ology means study of). taking that in a likeness of God, God is a trichotomous God, body being Jesus, mind being God, and Spirit being obviously the Holy Ghost. unlike us, God's mind and Spirit are universally located, which accounts for the omniscience. are we understanding this so far? or did I lose you somewhere in the maze of my sometimes haphazard thoughts? :)

I'm not saying you are wrong cause nobody really knows, but a lot of us have concluded that there has been a whole lot of hocus pocus in religion.

I read where we have various mixed up stuff that happens when we first die. Some have pleasant "out of supposedly body" experiences, and some have hellish experiences. It's just the brain shutting down, and really that's it.

Ten seconds seems like too short of a time to make it to the 3rd floor.

I believe people have a spirit, and it's part body, part mind, but it's something for sure, and where it goes, or who it goes to after life is hard for me to figure. Our souls it would seem have always been here, so we were just hanging around prior to birth, but we have no recollection of it. Very curious.

I really like the Jesus story, and it seems so nice, but to me why was God the Father so mean in the OT, and then Jesus comes along, and God the Son is so totally different? God the Holy Spirit has no personality.

[dthmstr254]

[quote=Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 I might get into a little bit of psychology and brain science with that realm. many brain scientists believe now that the mind is not a result of the brain (note that I did not say all). if it were, we could look at the brain and say that the mind was that one set of firing neurons. nobody can do that. several brain scientists in Britain did experiments where they had patients who were clinically dead for a certain amount of time (around ten seconds), yet revived, interviewed. they found that they had lucid thought patterns that included some conversations from patients that were sometimes down the hall while they were dead, sometimes whole floors away. this evidenced that something was leaving the body and had the ability to use all the normal senses.they chalked up that it had to be a mind. now, as a Christian, I believe in a trichotomy of the human. I believe we are body, mind, and soul. well the mind and soul aren't located in any one place in the body. you can't point to somewhere in the body and say "there is the soul." it is all over the body. it exists in the entire body, as does the mind. the study of psychology is literally, by definition, the study of the soul (because the prefix psyche- means soul, and the ending -ology means study of). taking that in a likeness of God, God is a trichotomous God, body being Jesus, mind being God, and Spirit being obviously the Holy Ghost. unlike us, God's mind and Spirit are universally located, which accounts for the omniscience. are we understanding this so far? or did I lose you somewhere in the maze of my sometimes haphazard thoughts? :) I'm not saying you are wrong cause nobody really knows, but a lot of us have concluded that there has been a whole lot of hocus pocus in religion. I read where we have various mixed up stuff that happens when we first die. Some have pleasant "out of supposedly body" experiences, and some have hellish experiences. It's just the brain shutting down, and really that's it. Ten seconds seems like too short of a time to make it to the 3rd floor. I believe people have a spirit, and it's part body, part mind, but it's something for sure, and where it goes, or who it goes to after life is hard for me to figure. Our souls it would seem have always been here, so we were just hanging around prior to birth, but we have no recollection of it. Very curious. I really like the Jesus story, and it seems so nice, but to me why was God the Father so mean in the OT, and then Jesus comes along, and God the Son is so totally different? God the Holy Spirit has no personality.

the person is clinically dead. no brain waves, no heart beat, no respiratory pattern. no nothing. the short term memory lasts for only 7 seconds, and must be encoded to become long-term. they had no time to encode it into long term memory, and thus, no chance for it to be remembered when revived. if the brain had the lucid images, nothing would be recording them, and that is a proven fact. (Roger Myers, Exploring Psychology, 2003, Chapter 9: memory.) our souls will live on forever, but are not eternal (which means forever both ways).
to answer the last question, God the Father was fulfilling the law, which was the only way that was provided before Christ's death. Romans 7 describes how the law is there to show our sins. the Pilgrim's Progress has a very good illustration. the soul is first like a dusty filthy room. the Law comes in with a broom and stirs up the dust (at which point it choked poor Christian!), but grace (which was put into action at the crucifixion) comes in with water and makes the soul clean. even then, grace was the way of salvation through faith in the OT. the sacrifices were required because faith is always manifested on the outside, but a faithful person with no money could offer nothing but his life in service to God and be right with Him, for He offered all he could in faith. the offering was the manifestation of their faith. what saved them was the faith BEHIND the offering.
finally, God the Holy Spirit is described as the Comforter. we are baptized into Him at salvation, and He shows us the way. and if we let Him fill us (meaning to let Him control our life), He will lead us in the ways of the Lord. in The Pilgrim's Progress, He is symbolized as a scroll that was given to Christian and Christiana (part 2).

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 drop everything and I bet you have nothing. if I drop everything I do on this earth,I still have something you will never have. oh, and before I go on, here is the definition of soul: The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness (heaven) or misery (hell) in a future state.

I have nothing? What don't I have? I have reliable resources, including my own mind. That is ten times worth the pathetic education you've received, at least from my experience online with you.

All you have more than me is faith in something that you shouldn't be having faith in, because it doesn't exist. It's nothing. If all the Christians died tomorrow, nothing would happen, because nothing can happen.

So what is soul made of, where does it lie, what are its properties, how does it connect to the mind, and by what methods does it travel to "heaven" or "hell?"

Or, maybe I should avoid asking any questions and just believe what you tell me. I bet you're really good at that by now. :eek:

Quote by: dthmstr254 and when you run into a roadblock, such as, the impossibility of evolution even being science (can't be either of the two major types of science, which are observational and experimental), what do you do, just ignore it like you have thus far? I don't claim academics. I claim a personal relationship with my Abba father. I sense Him with my soul, as you would if you would open the door. if you could go with me to what I was before I met Him, I probably beat you in that belief. I was the uber agnostic/atheist. I read in search for information where I now read for the sake of reading. my god was my self. my whole world didn't extend past the little bubble I had created. granted, I didn't have much time to get anything under my belt, but hey, I didn't believe it unless you proved it to me. my favorite shows were things like NOVA and Law & Order, things where evidence stacked for the case of something. you want me to go farther in my past?

I ignore it because I don't claim to know what millions of people wrongly think they have mastered. You THINK you have a personal relationship with someone. It's really your own mind talking to yourself. How do you know your sensing God with your soul? Oh wait, after the 100th time, I think you're clueless.

What were you before you had religion? Let's go spill the beans...were you a drug addict, a educational failure, an alcoholic? Many overcome these obstacles without the aid of religion; in fact, most do it without the aid of religion.

So what made you change your mind? Let's get our hands dirty here, and see if we can pin point where you made your mistake.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 I wasn't going to prove a point. you asked me what universalism was. I followed with a quote addressing the question from a universalist site. then you tried to delve deeper into something I had told you at the beginning I had no clue about.

Yes you were:

"and, if God does exist, then comes in Pascall's wager. all other gods are supposedly universal, up until the creation of Allah. if all but one are universal, then my best bet is with Christianity, because if it is true, then all other followers of all other religions are doomed. so, my chances of heaven are actually, based on an updated version of Pascall's Wager"

See, this is the first introduction of the universal theory or whatever, which you used as part of pascal's wager and thus to prove your point that you have high chances of being correct as a religion, which is basically your whole point in the past 5 posts. However, you later claim that you dont know what universal means so now that leaves me even more lost as you attempt to base evidence on an invalid base...

Quote by: dthmstr254 ever heard of "my way or the highway." well, in exclusive religions (of which there are currently 2), my way=heaven, highway=hell. make sense now?

You are totally wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

Quote by: dthmstr254 only thing is, the KJV part evidently isn't from the parts the pope edited. it corresponds directly with the Old Testament copy found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. kind of funny how they managed that if the pope edited it. :rolleyes: secondly, he warned her. if a Muslim man runs up and says that, I would probably wonder what drugs he was on. oh, and they found the city, if you would like to visit the dig.

They didn't manage it, that's how they edited it.

Yeah, he warned her before killing her even though, being omniscient, he knew she would look back, right? Yeah, that's what I thought...Your God=total asshole in a book of morals. He tells people not to do something, even though he knows they are going to do sometihng, then he kills them for his obvious pleasure since he razed two cities which were impossibly filled with only "bad" people. Sure...

Quote by: dthmstr254 that is the function of the "OR" conjunction? I choose to worship a deity. therefore, I rest my case. :)

Yes, but you're arguing AGAINST idols? So that wasn't your case to begin with...wow you're so difficult.

Quote by: dthmstr254 because money matters to the people who I pay for my education. hey, I have to pay them somehow. what, you want me to pay them with grain?

Isn't the Bible the only education you need to follow your religion? Why not forget the rest and just become his follower and doing whatever he wants and begging in the streets like Jesus supposedly did or something? Why not go around in bare feet like he did? And you call yourself a Christian. Please.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Yes you were: "and, if God does exist, then comes in Pascall's wager. all other gods are supposedly universal, up until the creation of Allah. if all but one are universal, then my best bet is with Christianity, because if it is true, then all other followers of all other religions are doomed. so, my chances of heaven are actually, based on an updated version of Pascall's Wager" See, this is the first introduction of the universal theory or whatever, which you used as part of pascal's wager and thus to prove your point that you have high chances of being correct as a religion, which is basically your whole point in the past 5 posts. However, you later claim that you dont know what universal means so now that leaves me even more lost as you attempt to base evidence on an invalid base...

problem is, you are reading in that I am an expert in this stuff. if I were an expert, would I use quotes from universalist sites? the basics of universalism is that everyone is on a one way road to heaven, however long it lasts.

You are totally wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

care to explain how I am wrong? don't make an assertion without clearly supporting it. logical fallacy number 1.

They didn't manage it, that's how they edited it. Yeah, he warned her before killing her even though, being omniscient, he knew she would look back, right? Yeah, that's what I thought...Your God=total asshole in a book of morals. He tells people not to do something, even though he knows they are going to do sometihng, then he kills them for his obvious pleasure since he razed two cities which were impossibly filled with only "bad" people. Sure...

go back, learn Greek and Hebrew, find a local museum that has a copy of the septaguint and/or the home of the dead sea scrolls, and read. shoot, the Cierpke library in Chattanooga TN has one copy of the exact part we are talking about. it translates PERFECTLY with the KJV. don't argue with a person that has both website and physical proof. I could borrow a camera, snap a pic, place it on my website and link it for you, but I doubt you would look.

Yes, but you're arguing AGAINST idols? So that wasn't your case to begin with...wow you're so difficult.

not very, if you read what I said, you could figure it out. my psychology teacher figured it out. you ought to be able to.

Isn't the Bible the only education you need to follow your religion? Why not forget the rest and just become his follower and doing whatever he wants and begging in the streets like Jesus supposedly did or something? Why not go around in bare feet like he did? And you call yourself a Christian. Please.

biblical support for going to college:
1 Thessalonians 4:11
And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

evidently we need to study, so, I choose to study.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 I have nothing? What don't I have? I have reliable resources, including my own mind. That is ten times worth the pathetic education you've received, at least from my experience online with you. All you have more than me is faith in something that you shouldn't be having faith in, because it doesn't exist. It's nothing. If all the Christians died tomorrow, nothing would happen, because nothing can happen. So what is soul made of, where does it lie, what are its properties, how does it connect to the mind, and by what methods does it travel to "heaven" or "hell?" Or, maybe I should avoid asking any questions and just believe what you tell me. I bet you're really good at that by now. :eek:

and if we were to stop pursuing every pleasure to our flesh, I would be left with more than you. I have more than you, though I be poor and you be rich. I have more than you though I be hungry and you be full. I have more than you though you have many possessions and I have nothing. I have more than you though you be free and I in chains. the reason? I can claim a personal relationship with an almighty God, a friend which sticketh closer than any brother. I am good, and getting better, for every second I spend on this earth, I am one second closer to heaven. I am one step closer to that point of time where I will be with my God, and will be reunited with loved ones gone ahead. how many Christians say they dread death? not too many that I have met.

I ignore it because I don't claim to know what millions of people wrongly think they have mastered. You THINK you have a personal relationship with someone. It's really your own mind talking to yourself. How do you know your sensing God with your soul? Oh wait, after the 100th time, I think you're clueless.

my mind isn't fractured and I tested negative for schizophrenia and MPD with a secular psychologist. that road ain't working. I did test positive for migraines though.

What were you before you had religion? Let's go spill the beans...were you a drug addict, a educational failure, an alcoholic? Many overcome these obstacles without the aid of religion; in fact, most do it without the aid of religion. So what made you change your mind? Let's get our hands dirty here, and see if we can pin point where you made your mistake.

I was in jail (literal, not figurative) for a crime I am not allowed to tell you. it is off my record because it was a dropped charge, but the crime happened. it was a result of my extremely explosive temper. I blew up and the whole world basically went to pieces. I was addicted to an explosive temper, and I started to try to control it, leaving an emptiness, well, in the book Addictions and Grace that is when your "call home" comes around. I "heard" God calling and I came to know Him. since then, I haven't been the same. if you come to Chattanooga, I would be glad to let me know where I will be so you can have a "walk in the life of" my own life. until then, enjoy.