Time travel and reincarnation

[Athena]

Between Kuldeep and SteveA I think my brain is over heating and about to melt down.
What SteveA said in the Math and theology thread, caused me to goole time travel.

"Time Travel InstituteResearch and discussion of time travel, quantum physicals and temporal displacement.
www.timetravelinstitute.com/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages"

Okay, this site provides an explanation of theories, and boldly states if we go back in time and kill our grandfather, we would not exist. Not necessarily so if recarnation is the reality. If recarnation is the reality we could exist before our grandfathers. We would not prevent our existence, but only the existence of a body we incarnate into. Simple to understand isn't it? Do you have anything to say about this, or time travel?

[tman_ndsu08]

We can't go back in time or forward in tim in our reality.

I think it is possible to travel laterally to another reality that has the same image of our reality in the past.

It then would also be possible to travel laterally to another reality that has an image of what our reality might be in the future.

[SteveA]

I just posted about this on the Untested Realities thread. I could copy it here but I'll just put the link instead. I don't think you can go back in time but even if you could, then time would have a depth to it and what you did in the past wouldn't alter the future you left (imagine it like an escalator ... you might somehow be able to run back down the steps you'd be leaving where you started from behind). You'd be altering effectively a point in a different dimension that would propogate along with you in time and result in a different future than you left, but not alter the original one you came from. (Again though I tend to think one absolute to the universe is that you can never truly go backwards ... you can slow down almost to a stop but if you exist within this then your thoughts would be slower as well, and things would still appear to be at a pace you would become accustumed to as "normal" ... like I posted on the other thread, if time truly reversed, so would your thoughts as well as all the forces so you'd still see balls falling down instead of up. Time may possibly propogate both backwards and forwards simultaneously, just like light can travel outward in all directions, and it seems unlikely we'd be able to know the difference)

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/showt...444#post220444

Regarding reincarnation, it seems like if we somehow came to exist out of nothing and there's no real end to the universe/existance then what would stop such an event from happening again? I doubt it's as simple as being born as a human again in the next generation but it would seem likely you'd exist again as something, in some part of the universe. Free will seems to correlate with quantum observations, IMO, and we don't even know how matter can be destroyed much less something we don't even understand. Quantum properties can be shared between distant pieces of matter, which correlates well also. One the other hand, I think reincarnation probably sucks a lot of the time (if you were randomly reborn as something else with varying lengths of life, the odds would seem to say whatever life you experience now is probably a long one and less chaotic relative to other possibilties) so it seems a good idea to squeeze as much of the good stuff out of what you've got when you have the chance than to leave it up to the roll of potentially loaded dice.

[Amuse]

You might enjoy reading Journey of Souls and Destiney of Souls both by Michael Newton Ph.D. Llyewellyn Publications. He is a hypnotherapist who has researched reincarnation. His subjects say time is only relevent here on earth and isn't a factor on the other side. Also the lifes we have are for lack of a better description "a play" that we act out here and our "free will" is in the choices we make during that play. Think of the number of possibilities that each incedent in our lives can have. We even have the ability to re-act those incedents once we have crossed over to try another outcome to see if we might have learned differently from it. In other words: Life is just an illusion

[SteveA]

Quote by: Amuse You might enjoy reading Journey of Souls and Destiney of Souls both by Michael Newton Ph.D. Llyewellyn Publications. He is a hypnotherapist who has researched reincarnation. His subjects say time is only relevent here on earth and isn't a factor on the other side. Also the lifes we have are for lack of a better description "a play" that we act out here and our "free will" is in the choices we make during that play. Think of the number of possibilities that each incedent in our lives can have. We even have the ability to re-act those incedents once we have crossed over to try another outcome to see if we might have learned differently from it. In other words: Life is just an illusion

That seems a possibility. An existance like this may be the only way to progress. Imagine if you had every need, desire, want filled at a whim. Would there be any way to grow past this? (Maybe there would be no need to but who knows if boredom sets in)

I think learning to work within constraints could almost be an exercise for the soul that leads to greater gains later. You might have a dishwasher, but sometimes it's not bad to wash a few things by hand and you might even find some insights in the process ... or something along those lines. Then again, I have no idea what a spirit life would be like and am simply comparing things to the more terrestial version I understand.

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 I think it is possible to travel laterally to another reality that has the same image of our reality in the past.

I believe light travels similar to this idea. If you look at the equations for relativity and time dilation, it's like everything is moving at lightspeed, even matter (though I see it as matter is effectively bouncing back and forth in a small area and each "bounce" progresses it through time ... light doesn't bounce off this time/gravity plane and travels sideways to it, and that's why light doesn't age or decay), but that you simply trade off velocity in one direction for the other. Truly, the model that seems to make most sense is that we don't really move at all but that communication between elements of the universe occurs at a relatively fixed rate and that we slide our observations to different parts of it and that time doesn't pass at identical rates everywhere (though lightspeed appears to be slightly variable over time ... either the rate of time changes slightly, the speed of light varies, or we can't measure things well ... or most likely a combination of all 3).

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Athena Do you have anything to say about this, or time travel?

What I would speak about time travel? I know very little about time itself!! On a different thread, probably on time dilation about six months back, I tried to understand earth time from the rotation/revolution of earth. Few of deductions there as far my memory goes are:

1. Time is relative referenced quantity set w.r.t earth's movements round itself and the sun. So infinite time dilation is not possible

2. Physical clock time as on earth has variable dimension and has direct relation with situation in which the mind of person percieving the time is. For example 15 mts with a girl friend are much shorter than 15 waiting out side the operation threater where your mother is being operated.

3. 90 year old person never feels he lived 9 times more than 10 year old boy. Both feel they are living. Note feeling is different than mental calculation!!

4. Time has no meaning when you live in space with reference of day and night

5. Same is the case when Soul leave body and live away from earth.

6. That is why you do not have any conception of time in dream!!!

More next time!!!! :)

[Amuse]

My understanding is time is only a means of measure for existance on this planet in order to be able to relate to things around us. Time zones would be a good example. When you are just waking up in the morning at the same time (relativly speaking) someone else is going to bed but for them it is a different time. True it has somethig to do with the rotation of the earth and sun, etc. but literally they are doing something different than you at exactly the same moment.
To make sense of why things exist physically I think we need to look at it from vibrational frequency. Water being a good example. Water exists in either gas, liquid or solid form and each state is determined by how fast the molocules are moving. They are responding accordingly to other vibrational frequencies. Even the colors of ligth waves correspond to a vibrational frequency.

[SteveA]

Along the line dreams, meditation, isolation tanks, near death experiences and possibly reincarnation, these seem to all have a common factor - slow (or no) brain activity.

If consciousness is due to quantum communication with the brain, there are some interesting insights that could explain some of these phenomenon.

When two particle interacts, any quantum uncertainty in them is resolved and they "make a decision" during the interaction that remains stable for a time but if a particle doesn't interact with something, it's quantum properties become nebulous and wave/energy like (I know this isn't precisely how it works but it's the general flavor). Along similar lines, Bose Einstein condensates effectively merge multiple pieces of matter into something appears to be like a single object keeping it as isolated and cold as possible. In a wave it's almost like quantum characteristics abhore a vacuum and expand in order to maintain contact and interact with other things. If there no activity in one place, they get bored and go elsewhere.

So if you look at these states like dreaming, meditation etc. they would seem to lower the activity of the brain and likely cause consciousness to expand outward to fill the void. When interactions occur outside this the waves collapse and result in a conscious observation from a new perspective. I still have to admit it seems unlikely these would be "real" experiences though and something like ESP doesn't seem possible unless it might be between someone you're very familiar with. It took years growing to simply learn to interprete signals in your own brain and though it might be possible to have some slight conscious exchange with someone else, my guess is it would be a learning experience as well and limited, though some structures in the brain might be different between people to make this harder or easier. (Of course the view that if ESP existed, we should be able to find concrete examples of it, makes sense though there might be specific reasons why this is harder than it appears at face value)

Bose-Einstein condensates:
http://physics.about.com/od/bec/a/BECComplex.htm
http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000...ooks_like.html

Another quick thought is that this could more or less nebulous form of matter is what matter truly looks like and that energies and quantum properties are what distinguish one form of matter from another ... matter may be simply a blob of possibility waiting to be defined by information outside of it and if you syphon of that information (you don't destroy heat when you cool something, you simply move it elsewhere), it returns to an undefined state having few characteristics.

Here's an article regarding the possibilities of quantum coherence and consciousness.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/brainde.php

(Again, multiple objects can share the same quantum properties so if consciousness operates through this process, then it's not tied to anything specifically, even the exact location of a particle in space is affected by by this so it might be a much more distributed process than we commonly recognize)

It seems simply from a biological standpoint that seeing consciousness as centered around the midpoint of ones eyesight, hearing, neural activities and to a lesser extent taste and smell would make sense (why would anyone assume their consciousness was in their elbow ... it would seem to be an unnecessarily confusing and unnatural viewpoint) but of course when you sleep these senses are less active in maintaining this perspective and so it's easier to "drift off" as you have less of a physical reference to orient things.

[Athena]

Quote by: Amuse My understanding is time is only a means of measure for existance on this planet in order to be able to relate to things around us. Time zones would be a good example. When you are just waking up in the morning at the same time (relativly speaking) someone else is going to bed but for them it is a different time. True it has somethig to do with the rotation of the earth and sun, etc. but literally they are doing something different than you at exactly the same moment. To make sense of why things exist physically I think we need to look at it from vibrational frequency. Water being a good example. Water exists in either gas, liquid or solid form and each state is determined by how fast the molocules are moving. They are responding accordingly to other vibrational frequencies. Even the colors of ligth waves correspond to a vibrational frequency.

Hum, what you say here about vibrational frequencies and Kuldeep rewrote of time, excites my imagination. Without a body, our souls could enter another dimension because of a changed vibrational frequency?

[Athena]

In response to what SteveA said of slowing the brain and increasing receptiveness, this is what meditation is about. Meditating actually changes the brain waves. A term used for this is something like, awake sleeping. To still ones mind, and in so doing be open to the universal intelligence. Kuldeep can you clarify this?

[Dadoo]

Time is ennumeration.
Time is a system of measuring. Time is not that which it measures.

Time travel is an oxymoron to me, as there is only now.
Now is the moment all things happen.
Temporally, if you will, memory can bring a distinction between the 'past' and 'present'.
It cannot fuse the two, however.
Cerebrally, if you won't, the imagination can conceive of a distinction or division btween the 'present' and the 'future'.
Yet neither memory nor imagination realistically recall or predict events with "accuracy", that may be agreed upon by two or more "separate" witnesses.

This in my mind, I believe that there is no need to waste calories pondering the manipulation of a purely intangible conceptualization such as Time, and It's Travel.

It is un-phenomenalogical. So to speak.

However, the idea that constant reincarnations are a form of time-travel is interesting.
Reincarnation is dependant upon the manifestation of spirit into meat, carnality... corporeality.
The body is fallible and breakable.
It is a change of clothes for....

That which is most assuredly the "real" you, which exists within and without the constraints of physical existence. "You" as the Uber-protean spark I love to ramble on about, may be all that truly exists, the rest waxing and waning to the regular beat of an encompassing elipse eclipsing and revealing the Cosmic Sun. The sun-of suns.

Time travel, in comparison is child's play.
We are time-traveling right this instant, by definition.

Reincarnation is another form of immortality.
The body dies. What does not? In this world of polars... something lives forever.
It cannot be bound by time, 'eh?

And, if one "thing" escapes time and it's "boggling implications", Pandoraesque endless seeking,
than how can anything be caught in it, except thru innocent ignorance or pure choice.

Everything is fun, after all.
Bigger fish, frying,

you/me

[SteveA]

Time is ennumeration. Time is a system of measuring. Time is not that which it measures.

Yes, there isn't any universal clock we can look at and say Universal Standard Time is 1:00PM at the tone. We have no absolute references but can only compare number of occurances of one event versus another. For a conscious perspective of the flow of external time, I think something on the order of external events per thought is how it's perceived. If you took a pendulumn clock to the moon, time according to the clock would appear slower (because the lower gravitational force would cause it to oscillate slower), though time supposedly goes faster in lower gravitational fields. If you asked someone on the moon how fast time seemed to pass they might say, "It goes by faster than when you're listening to lecture but slower than the first time I made out, so it's a wash"

They actually cheated (IMO) in physics on the definitions of the speed of light and distance. The speed of light is defined to be exactly 299,792,458 metres per second in a vacuum (now they're wondering whether a vacuum is truly a vacuum) and the way they did this is to say a meter is the distance light travels in exactly 1/299,792,458th of a second. So if the speed of light changes, then our rulers are wrong.

And, if one "thing" escapes time and it's "boggling implications", Pandoraesque endless seeking, than how can anything be caught in it, except thru innocent ignorance or pure choice.

If someone found their way into time once, they can likely do it again. Actually, I think there is one constant to all experiences - change, which would seem almost by definition to correlate to some form of time. The reason why there must be change is that without it, there's no contrast to experience, and no manner in which to count time or sense it. Even though some low level brain activities are still present under anethesia, we don't sense the passage of time.

I had some fun a week or so ago doing some brainstorming on how an entire universe could evolve out of simply the possibility of a single thought and one requirement seemed to be an expanding memory, like "spacetime", but from there the rest of the possibilities seem virtually infinite.

Everything is fun, after all. Bigger fish, frying, you/me

Go get em.

Conscious being #????

BTW, I apologize for Bush ... he must've slipped out of some repressed corner of thought ... I'm working on it. Next time around let's do it different. On the bright side maybe we can chalk it up as a learning experience ... for example cute female leaders instead? (I'm just playing around)

[Boetie]

Time is a great teacher, but it kills all of its pupils

[SteveA]

Quote by: Boetie Time is a great teacher, but it kills all of its pupils

It also gave birth to them.

(But, yes, getting a degree from the school of hard knocks can be a pain)

[Dadoo]

SteveA-
I won't hold you responsible.
To err is human.
Thank goodness we are all perfect.

Can we graduate soon?

Are we there yet?

Smiles,
Dadoo

[Amuse]

Quote by: Athena Hum, what you say here about vibrational frequencies and Kuldeep rewrote of time, excites my imagination. Without a body, our souls could enter another dimension because of a changed vibrational frequency?

Athena-

I think on another thread I suggested two books by Michael Newton Ph.D. The Journey of Souls and The Destiney of Souls. He is a hypnotherapist who for years has studied reincarnation and life between lives by regressing his patients. Both are fascinating to readand I strongly suggest reading them. According to his patients each one of us has our own unique frequency tone and that is what makes individuals and different from one another. Also when we incarnate we bring only a portion of our energy with us and leave a small amount behind. Some of us under estimate the amount of energy we will need to "live" our "life" based on the challenges we set up for ourselves and the objectives we want to understand and or overcome which is why one might die young or have a life of ill health. Your probably asking yourself "what about handicap people?" Yes, they choose to incarnate with that body to aid in their objectives! Why? Because in the scope of eternity a life span is very short time. Why don't we remember these choices we have made before incarnating? We come here with a sort of amnesia. It would deminish the outcome of our objectives if we knew in advance what is going to happen on a consious level.
I'm just hitting some high points here but can't do the whole process justice, so read the books.

[Amuse]

Time is not a line, but a series of now-points...
Taisen Deshimaru

Time is an illusion of this earth life...
Peace Pilgrim

[SteveA]

Nice musings, aMuse.

Quote by: Dadoo SteveA- I won't hold you responsible. To err is human. Thank goodness we are all perfect. Can we graduate soon? Are we there yet? Smiles, Dadoo

I admit it'll be fun to get out the cosmic sythesizer after this and try out a few new chord structures. Then maybe kick back dreaming up paradises for a while and then go for the gusto and take a quick dip into mortality again to spice it up ... maybe a good heartwrenching story, nostaligic, bittersweet torn between two loves or something along those lines. You can adlib some twists along the way or do a parallel storyline. You dream up the bad guy next time and I'll toss in a few henchmen to mix up and keep things lively (maybe a struggle against nature/hardship theme instead of bad guys? ). We can create an awesome storyline structure but save the idea in an alterego to keep the suspense before diving in. (Sort of reminds me of a Finnish sauna ... you get in your birthday suit, take a quick dip in freezing cold water and then everyone lounges around soaking up steam. I've never tried it but the claim that it's a rush seems true)

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Athena In response to what SteveA said of slowing the brain and increasing receptiveness, this is what meditation is about. Meditating actually changes the brain waves. A term used for this is something like, awake sleeping. To still ones mind, and in so doing be open to the universal intelligence. Kuldeep can you clarify this?

Patience pays!!! Presently I am enjoying other scholars like Dadoo, SteveA, Amuse. Let understand them first before putting my real unbiased mind!!

Bear with me for some more time!!!! :)

[SaintLucifer]

Get real people. Time travel is impossible and you know it. Please stop watching so many Star Trek reruns and get outside once in a while. Jeez.

SaintLucifer
The Dark Saint