'Jesus is Lord'

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 It was the son's decision to drown, so yes, he should have let him. You should not control other people's lives.

ok, so it is NOT the duty of the father to care for the son? I mean, thaqt is what the law says. isnt that guy then liable for negligent homicide?

[phoenix_fire]

To begin with, I think that Bush has been a somewhat crappy example of a Christian. I also think that, as Boetie said, he is using his professed Christianity to solidify his right wing base. Jesus said, in that day, many people would call out to Him "Lord, Lord. Did we not do [blah, blah, blah] in Your Name?" And Jesus will say "Away from me evildoers: I never knew you". So not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will be justified before God. He also said that "those who live by the sword will die by the sword".

I think that the image of God punishing people with Hell is a little skewed. The way I look at it, everyone is given a choice as to whether to follow God or not. The key to the whole thing is to realize that there are two sides in contention: God and Satan. God vies for the hearts of men. All Satan has to do is keep people from God. God wants people to reciprocate His love. Satan just wants to hurt God. Now Heaven is the place where we experience God's presence fully. And if that's not what you're after, then you're not going to get there. Unlike the cartoons, it is not a place of eternal material delights. It is where you are in the Presence of God. If you don't know God or don't like Him, then you wouldn't want to be there anyway. The problem is that if you aren't with God, you fall into the other side of the dichotomy. The Bible describes it as being "outside the walls": and it's not a nice place. But since God won't force you to go where it is safe, you have to make that decision on your own. The simple fact is that God is good (all the time!) and that good does not exist apart from Him. In this way, we choose our own fate: God merely enforces our decision.

G., pride is a sin. The fact that you refuse to bow is indicative of its presence in you. The problem with doing a whole bunch of good deeds and then figuring you're a good person: better than most other people and a prime candidate for paradise is that it involves a severe degree of pride. This causes us to scorn others: a very maleficent trait. Humility is a much more excellent quality to cultivate.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 ok, so it is NOT the duty of the father to care for the son? I mean, thaqt is what the law says. isnt that guy then liable for negligent homicide?

There is a difference between caring and controlling. Caring is teaching the son why it is not smart to go onto the ice. Controlling is knowing that even though he is at a point of understanding this, you still prevent any way for him to go onto the ice; that is, if he wants to go onto the ice.

Legally, it would depend on the age of the son, which, like I said, is OK when the son fully understands the consequences of going onto the ice.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 There is a difference between caring and controlling. Caring is teaching the son why it is not smart to go onto the ice. Controlling is knowing that even though he is at a point of understanding this, you still prevent any way for him to go onto the ice; that is, if he wants to go onto the ice. Legally, it would depend on the age of the son, which, like I said, is OK when the son fully understands the consequences of going onto the ice.

and leaving him in there? shoot, you really don't want to go there with me. I have every law that pertains to drowning incidents, and in the case that you are able to rescue a person drowning in the absence of a lifeguard and do not attempt to rescue that person, it is considered negligent homicide. you are being stupid, for the punishment would be much worse if the person in need of rescue is your son or daughter.

secondly, if the son is deciding to drown himself, it is mandated that, by law, he is unfit for making his own decisions, and needs to be referred to a mental crises center.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 and leaving him in there? shoot, you really don't want to go there with me. I have every law that pertains to drowning incidents, and in the case that you are able to rescue a person drowning in the absence of a lifeguard and do not attempt to rescue that person, it is considered negligent homicide. you are being stupid, for the punishment would be much worse if the person in need of rescue is your son or daughter. secondly, if the son is deciding to drown himself, it is mandated that, by law, he is unfit for making his own decisions, and needs to be referred to a mental crises center.

If they knowingly went in there after I told them not to, that they are being stupid...

And anyways, if they disregarded me, fine, but if they were drowning after falling in and wanted out right away I would help them. I don't see the problem with that.

[Flip Jackson]

Quote by: dthmstr254 for evil despiseth that which is good. hey, if truth sows discord, it is because it was sown among evil people.

Just because you may be creating discord doesn't mean you are speaking truth. Truth can cause discord, but so can many other things. I'm pretty sure Hitler caused a lot of discord, but wasn't big on truth.

This is poor support of your way of debate. Truth can also be enlightening. The reactions you get are by no means proof that your stance is correct.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Flip Jackson Just because you may be creating discord doesn't mean you are speaking truth. Truth can cause discord, but so can many other things. I'm pretty sure Hitler caused a lot of discord, but wasn't big on truth. This is poor support of your way of debate. Truth can also be enlightening. The reactions you get are by no means proof that your stance is correct.

when the hell did a majority always equal a truth? lets see some times when the majority did NOT hold the truth:

the belief that the sun went revolved around the earth
the belief that the world was flat
the belief that there were only 1000 stars in the universe
need I say.....more?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 If they knowingly went in there after I told them not to, that they are being stupid... And anyways, if they disregarded me, fine, but if they were drowning after falling in and wanted out right away I would help them. I don't see the problem with that.

well, why don't you start a petition to get that law changed. because as the law stands, we are to save you whether you like it or not. and the way I would do it, you would be under citizen's arrest until someone could haul you off for rehab if you wanted to commit suicide.

PS: I know a good psychologist if you really want to drown yourself.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: phoenix_fire G., pride is a sin. The fact that you refuse to bow is indicative of its presence in you. The problem with doing a whole bunch of good deeds and then figuring you're a good person: better than most other people and a prime candidate for paradise is that it involves a severe degree of pride. This causes us to scorn others: a very maleficent trait. Humility is a much more excellent quality to cultivate.

Jealousy and spite are also sins, traits indicative of the God of the Old Testemant. That a God would need me to bow before him suggests his own pride.

I see no inherent evil in pride. Pride for it's own sake leads to hollow virtues; only doing good things for recognition devalues the virtue of the deed. But I have personal pride in my own actions because they are good, not because they are recognised.

Pride can be turned to good ends. I am proud of myself, a situation I wish to sustain, thus it discourages me from committing vices. This, I feel, is a better situation than acting one way or another because of fear, to appease an unworthy God.

I do not scorn anyone in totality, to do so would be to lack compassion, a virtue I wish to uphold. Having said that, this is tempered by a sense of justice. While I will always show compassion towards someone in an ill situation, it does not mean their vices should be ignored. For example, I would show compassion towards someone who demonstrated cowardice by encouraging them to prove it they can rise above it. What I would not do is to allow them to think that cowardice is good, or even remotely acceptable. That would both be unjust and incompassionate, to allow them so easily to fall into a life of vice.

[Amuse]

Quote by: dthmstr254 for evil despiseth that which is good. hey, if truth sows discord, it is because it was sown among evil people.

The truth is that there is no one truth. Everybody has their own truth and some might agree with your truth a little or a lot but it will still be from their perspective and life experience.

[Flip Jackson]

Quote by: dthmstr254 when did a majority always equal a truth? lets see some times when the majority did NOT hold the truth: the belief that the sun went revolved around the earth the belief that the world was flat the belief that there were only 1000 stars in the universe need I say.....more?

This has nothing to do with what I said. I said that just because a number of people disagree with you doesn't mean you speak truth. Why did you go off on majority equalling truth?

The way people respond to your remarks doesn't make them more or less valid. Stop trying to claim that since so many people find your remarks ridiculous you must be speaking truth. Majority has nothing to do with it.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 well, why don't you start a petition to get that law changed. because as the law stands, we are to save you whether you like it or not. and the way I would do it, you would be under citizen's arrest until someone could haul you off for rehab if you wanted to commit suicide. PS: I know a good psychologist if you really want to drown yourself.

Oh, awesome, I'm glad you caught my whole point that I want to drown myself and I wasn't trying at all to speak hypothetically...

I don't see what's wrong with committing suicide...Stop trying to control other people's lives and control your own. I'm sure you have some work to do.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Oh, awesome, I'm glad you caught my whole point that I want to drown myself and I wasn't trying at all to speak hypothetically... I don't see what's wrong with committing suicide...Stop trying to control other people's lives and control your own. I'm sure you have some work to do.

those of us who are in General Psychology understand it perfectly. they are in a severely depressed state usually resulting from nihilism (a philosophy that frequently results in suicide) which causes the brain to regress into a "trained" state of depression. it literally stops creating seretonin because of the way the person believes (if there is no reason to live, why continue living?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: dthmstr254 those of us who are in General Psychology understand it perfectly. they are in a severely depressed state usually resulting from nihilism (a philosophy that frequently results in suicide) which causes the brain to regress into a "trained" state of depression. it literally stops creating seretonin because of the way the person believes (if there is no reason to live, why continue living?

Hah, yeah, general psychology. So you're like a psychologist now, right? I took psychology last year and now I'm taking AP Psych. It doesn't mean jack squat. Psychology is a profession that takes PhD's to understand "perfectly." Even so, if you were so understanding in psychology anyways, you'd know that serOtonin levels, when low, can cause someone to believe something, or vice versa; yet there are many many types of depression as well as treatments for the specific kinds. So you're assuming something just so happens to be chemically wrong where the person doesn't want to live, not because they don't want to live, but because their serotonin levels are telling them that? Or maybe they just don't want to live, and THAT's having an effect on the serotonin levels...

[Paul]

If the father knew that the son would disobey/ignore his warning, is the father responsible for his son's death.

Should the father allow his 18 year old (mature) son to go on the ice and drown after the son was warned of the conseqence?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Paul If the father knew that the son would disobey/ignore his warning, is the father responsible for his son's death. Should the father allow his 18 year old (mature) son to go on the ice and drown after the son was warned of the conseqence?

Yes, if this hypothetical is equal to that of a mature suicide. As long as the person knows that he will surely drown upoh going onto the ice, then you have no control over his actions. You've done your job as a parent up to that point. Either you really screwed up and now you can learn from it, or something was mentally wrong with him, at which point he wouldn't know what he was doing, with would make it wrong, since he wouldn't know death was eminent.

[Paul]

I'd like to go farther in this debate for those that believe that there is an Almighty God/the Father.

Let say that the Father knows that the kings of this world and their armies are going to cause total annihilation with the use of WMDs (nuclear, biological and chemical) against each other.

Should the Father intervene and stop them from causing the total annihilation against their will?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Paul I'd like to go farther in this debate for those that believe that there is an Almighty God/the Father. Let say that the Father knows that the kings of this world and their armies are going to cause total annihilation with the use of WMDs (nuclear, biological and chemical) against each other. Should the Father intervene and stop them from causing the total annihilation against their will?

I see this as the same situation.

[phoenix_fire]

I do not have the chutzpah to tell God what He should and/or should not do.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Paul I'd like to go farther in this debate for those that believe that there is an Almighty God/the Father. Let say that the Father knows that the kings of this world and their armies are going to cause total annihilation with the use of WMDs (nuclear, biological and chemical) against each other. Should the Father intervene and stop them from causing the total annihilation against their will?

If God is omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent, as the Christian God is claimed to be, then God would do something to prevent our total annhilation, whether it be back ground tinkering, sending us a message or just physically stopping it all. If he did not, he must logically fail to possess one of those three traits.