Homosexuality... Mental Illness?

[Plasma Snake[D]]

Alright, let me explain myself as best I can here to introduce this concept to you. What would you say a normal healthy person consists of? A healthy physical body, cause we are essentially our bodies. Now, a normal healthy body has things called genitalia, which, if used correctly, interacts with its counterpart. Now wouldn't you say that evolution has assigned these very specific roles to us? A homosexual deviates from this picture of ideal health. Now am I saying that homosexuals are "evil"? NO. now, this brings up a couple of things. Does homosexuality involve the brain and its parts? YES. I would say that if you are a reasonable person, you would know that the brain has sections to control breathing, hormones, sense of balance, etc. Would you say that it also has parts that control the way we interact and behave amongst each other and ourselves? Of how we view each other? And if these parts deviated from performing at their ideal or most beneficial levels, wouldn't you say that it is a mental illness? I read somewhere that homosexual men are like women when it comes to smelling body odors of a man. Oh, and that other animals in the animal kingdom also behave like homosexual humans, its just that its rare(or that the media chooses not to display these images)

[Son of Belial]

Animals behaving in a homosexual manner isn't all that rare. Among certain types of primates(and humans are primates, but I'm excluding them from this example) it's very common, particularly when the creatures are growing up and, for lack of a better term, "experimenting."

I would say that someone who has an attraction to their own gender and not to the opposite gender is unnatural. I don't think that's it's perfectly normal; it is, by definition, an abnormality. However, that being said, I'm disinterested in any aspect of it in terms of morality. Abnormal does not equal immoral. And if it is immoral... again, so what.

[RickSp]

After significant study the American Psychiatric Association determined that homosexuality was not a mental illness over twenty five years ago. Homosexuality is unusual but like red hair and left-handedness is completely normal.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

Yeah, I dont think its morally wrong or right, I just wanted to think of why there is such opposition to it. As far as the American Psychiatric Association is concerned, so what? Psychiatry is still young and is by far mostly DESCRIPTIVE and not EXPLANATORY. Wasnt it like twenty five years ago that they did lobotomies and all those horrible things to the mentally ill? Just cause the APA says something does it make it right? Will you trust someone that prescribes you a chemical and tells you that it will aleviate the problem, only to probably find out years from now that it cause cancer or something? Maybe the APA said this to blow off some bad publicity. All I know is that just cause someone or some group SAYS they are the ultimate source for a certain thing doesn't mean they are the definitive source.

[tinybear]

http://www.truth-and-justice.info/homosexuality.html

[belverron]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D ]Now wouldn't you say that evolution has assigned these very specific roles to us? A homosexual deviates from this picture of ideal health.

Scientists have been grappling with reconciling homosexuality with evolution, assuming there is a genetic component, at least, to homosexuality. After all, shouldn't natural selection breed it out? There is speculation that it may serve an important, nonreproductive role. Maybe I'll dig around for a link.

Also, if homosexuals are merely reproductively deficient, well, the world doesn't need any more babies. So, you can view it as a deviation from the "ideal," which you establish fairly arbitrarily, or you can just go with it. I don't really care if it's a mental illness according to one line of thought. It's as easy to "prove" the contrary.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: RickSp After significant study the American Psychiatric Association determined that homosexuality was not a mental illness over twenty five years ago. Homosexuality is unusual but like red hair and left-handedness is completely normal.

I thought red hair was found to be a degenerative condition caused from isolated gene pools. (I don't have a link)

[JimiPhoenix]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I thought red hair was found to be a degenerative condition caused from isolated gene pools. (I don't have a link)

I thought so, too. Admittedly, only because my ex-girlfriend explained it to me and got pissed off when I wouldn't stop calling her a degenerate. *sigh* Note the 'ex' part

Also, homosexuality is fairly common in the animal kingdom. And I'm a lefty (like, with my hands), so it's glad to hear I didn't evolve in an obscurely deficient way

[rez]

Quote by: belverron Scientists have been grappling with reconciling homosexuality with evolution, assuming there is a genetic component, at least, to homosexuality. After all, shouldn't natural selection breed it out? There is speculation that it may serve an important, nonreproductive role. Maybe I'll dig around for a link. Also, if homosexuals are merely reproductively deficient, well, the world doesn't need any more babies. So, you can view it as a deviation from the "ideal," which you establish fairly arbitrarily, or you can just go with it. I don't really care if it's a mental illness according to one line of thought. It's as easy to "prove" the contrary.

maybe this link.

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articl...yorktimes.html

[Plasma Snake[D]]

"Unlike animals, Man cannot rely exclusively on his instincts and emotions, his instincts and emotions must be controlled by his reason. This control by reason is not inborn, but develops through a prolonged learning process. Usually this happens in a social setting and starts within the family. Even simple instinctive acts like urination are subject to a lengthy learning process. Unlike animals, people do not urinate wherever they feel the urge, they do it in special places. The same applies to the procreational process (sex)."

"This is clearly not a "mental illness or personality disorder" as it was thought of in the earlier part of the 20th century. Homosexuality is a form of social behaviour, which is caused by failure of governments to educate the people on the correct use of their reproductive process."
Text from http://www.truth-and-justice.info/homosexuality.html

Wow the author speaks in such an authoritative tone that makes me want to drive a fork through his eyes. Since when does it depend on the macro social to instruct its individuals on its reproductive cycle? Doesnt it come naturally? I think he got it backwards. And how can he say that a man must rely on his reason and not his emotions and instincts, when these things probably go hand in hand. I dont know, good article though.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Yeah, I dont think its morally wrong or right, I just wanted to think of why there is such opposition to it. As far as the American Psychiatric Association is concerned, so what? Psychiatry is still young and is by far mostly DESCRIPTIVE and not EXPLANATORY. Wasnt it like twenty five years ago that they did lobotomies and all those horrible things to the mentally ill? Just cause the APA says something does it make it right? Will you trust someone that prescribes you a chemical and tells you that it will aleviate the problem, only to probably find out years from now that it cause cancer or something? Maybe the APA said this to blow off some bad publicity. All I know is that just cause someone or some group SAYS they are the ultimate source for a certain thing doesn't mean they are the definitive source.

I find interesting and rather telling that you so blythely dismiss thirty years of scientific research because the results don't coincide with your particular biases. You say , "so what?" to the conclusions of the American Psychiatric Association, and likewise I say "so what?" to your particular ramblings.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

I knew that would be your response. I might have "blythely dismiss"ed their thirty years of research, but do you know that out there is a whole crapload of homosexual people with 'rights', in our search to make everything politically correct we miss out on lots of truths. It might sound like a bias but its just that simply saying "its not a mental illness" is absurb. Every year new standards of what used to be sane is considered crazy, and vice versa. I find it funny how you say "thirty years of research" like if researching homosexual "brain patterns"(whatever) was a big concern that will have thirty years of research devoted to it. maybe here and there, but not thirty years worth! Trust me, I try to speak in a non biased way, I wouldn't just say something without having researched a bit. Psychology, in my experience, only describes the situation, it doesnt explain it. Theres alot we dont know. Remember asbestos, and how it was the new miracle thing? How about this following quote from http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lobotomy.html :

"Walter Freeman, an American physician, with his colleague James Watts, performed his first lobotomy operation in 1936. He was so satisfied with the results that he went on to do many thousands more, and in fact began a propaganda campaign to promote its use. He is also famous for inventing what is called ice pick lobotomy. Impatient with the difficult surgical methods pioneered by Moniz, he found he could insert an ice pick above each eye of a patient with only local anesthetic, drive it through the thin bone with a light tap of a mallet, swish the pick back and forth like a windshield wiper and -- voilà -- a formerly difficult patient is now passive."

So can one REALLY trust for 100% certain what a "PROFESSIONAL" says? At times yes. But you have to think for yourself. Remember how we used to think we had the brain figured out enough to prescribe medicine, completely numb to the fact that the chemical balances and cycles in the brain have taken millions of years to get like it is now, and thirty years of research isnt exactly going to tell you everything.

[RickSp]

Your biases against gay folks isn't made any more reasonable by dismissing the entire body of medical research and for that matter the entire medical establishment. Your points regarding past medical abuse is ridiculous particularly as it was often applied to gay folks as well as others.

[Jack]

Lobotomies and electro-shock therapy are still in use today. They're just not as common or practiced as carelessly as before.