Why Do Some People Seem to Hate God?

[Osborn F Enready]

AND SNPete cordially complimented one of my posts, because he liked what I said, and then in the next post from me in this thread, he completely ignores and doesn't even attempt to answer the question that was directed levelly, and completely at him.

I hate to say it, but it is typical of those I spoke of when I said "religions earthbound representatives" don't represent religion very well, and that is why THEY are the target for most of the hate...... THEY BREED IT through their actions.

[Sonart]

Quote by: RickSp I keep getting the sense that SNPete isn't listening. He seems to label all atheists as "God haters" even though we of all people can hardly hate that which we do not believe exists. Odd.

Nah, Rick, to be fair, Pete did point out folks who specifically said they hate God. So they're either atheists confused on what it means to be an atheist, or believers who have a bone to pick.

.

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: CheckMate NO ONE ELSE CAN SEE YOUR UNIVERSE BUT YOU . WHEN WE JOIN AND become one YOU HAVE BODY AND SOUL.BODY DIES SOUL GOES ON YOU WILL SEE. GOOD COMES TO THOSE WHO WAIT. I can't wait to see, but you must still live your life to learn how you would like your universe.

Do you ever have a point, or post on topic?

[Livemike]

Quote by: SNPete I am curious about, maybe even a little fascinated with the concept of hating God. Why is it that some folks like Son of Belial see to hold a hatred or contempt towards God. I mean aside from creating everything and giving people life, what has God done that would make some people hate Him.

The following is made on the basis that there is a God which I do not believe, but
if it were true;
I wish theists would make up their mind. Either God controls the world or he
doesn't. If he doesn't then I don't see why I should care about him. If he does then
that bastard gave my granddad Alzhiemer's disease, sent the earthquake that killed
thousands in Pakistan, Hurricane Katriana etc. and "created life" where 4/5ths of the
life survives by being parasitic on other life causing untold pain and death. Then he
says "Well you can get out of all this pain and death, not by being a good person
that doesn't deserve it, but by believing in certain things that you have good reason
not to believe in". What a prick!

Quote by: SNPete Sometimes God does things we don’t like or agree with, but since we owe our very existence to God, who are we to complain or tell God that he is a bad deity?

We are reasoning beings with the ability to form independent judgements.
Therefore we have the right to complain to whoever we like. He could have
made automatons without that ability or right, but he chose otherwise. "Life is
like a box of chocolates, a thoughtless gift nobody ever asks for.". Just because
you gave someone life doesn't mean they owe you anything. To give something
without asking the recipents permission and then expect that means they owe
you something is clearly unjust.

Quote by: SNPete It is one thing to complain, but having hate and contempt. I just don’t understand. To me this seems bizarre. So, for my own education (and perhaps for others as well), to those that do dislike God: why do you hate God?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: SNPete Since you asked: a) when have I done this? b) I have no problem with Gays as long as they don't force their agenda on me. c)If a person wants to kill themselves it is their choice. d) some people are that way. Christian and atheist. Most aren't, myself included. e) I love science. Perhaps our area of disagreement is that I think God created the universe and you don't.

Your gay stance is a minority viewpoint among theists in America.
Your suicide stance is a minority viewpoint among theists in America.
Your love of science is less seen among other theists.

I am no longer debating the beliefs of theism, I'm debating the beliefs of your own beliefs. Imagine if we did that for everyone.

Perhaps we should move this to a creation thread if that's where the disagreement lies.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: 5010 But is it a matter of sight or trust? I tend to trust sight despite proof that I can be fooled (just search google for optical illusions). But some people trust scripture despite the existence of lies in human language.

Trust can be placed among anything. Sight can see everything we're capable of seeing. You can't avoid seeing something unless you look away or close your eyes, two jobs performed conciously.

We place trust in things we want to. Theists feel it's worth the risk to trust scripture. The risk does not affect them personally, however the consequences of societal trust and group interaction lead to mass effects.

[JimiPhoenix]

Hehe, this is a strangely suitable first post for me...

Anyway, I don't hate God. I hate the fact that so many people believe in a 'God', in some form or another. If you find the idea of somebody hating something they don't believe exists confusing, then you're probably just taking things at face value. Often people don't mean it quite so literally.

For example:

Let's say several billion people believed in Santa Claus. Let's say, through some clever corporate marketing ploy (run with me on this - I'm going somewhere), these people believe that Santa has set them a specific set of guidelines that defines what makes a 'Good' person. If a person doesn't conform to these guidelines, he/she won't receive a hypothetical gift at the end of every year - the gift's awesomeness being proportional to their level of obedience to Santa's guidelines.
Let's go one step further and say that Santa wants you to dedicate your life to serving him. You should do it, because, in a Darth Vaderesque twist, you find out he's actually your father. Yes, Santa Claus - a supernatural benevolant dude who spends a lot of time hanging around in the sky - is your father. And everyone else's too. Hell, he created EVERYTHING. You know this is true, because one of his elfin representatives at WalMart (or wherever) told you so.
That's slightly weird, you think, since if he was really your father and had access to some cosmic hotline where he can see into the hearts of all of his children and even speak to them in their minds[!!], well...why didn't he just tell you himself?
Well, you don't worry 'bout it too much. After all, he's Santa. He's probably delivering babies, or presents. Or something.

So, time goes on. You and all of Santa's other bastard kids live life according to The Rules - ten little lines that dicate how you should live your life. If you break The Rules, bad things will happen.
Y'see, Santa isn't all about big bellies and ho-ho-hoes. He has a vengeful side. It seems almost impossible that the jolly fat man could ever be anything but, errr, a jolly fat man. But the little elves at WalMart know otherwise. They told you so, and everybody knows elves have a direct line to the Big Man (Santa, guys), as signified by their symbolic white ribbons around their necks and green hats with the cute, tinkly little bells on the ends. Man, those bells are so cute that you don't ever think twice about the fact that those elves only ever ask young boys to sit on their laps, leaving the poor little girls lost and forlorn, without so much as a token candy-cane.

The elves tell you lots of stuff about Santa. Santa has lots of helpers, but the most elite of his helpers are his Reindeer. Among the Reindeer Santa had one helper he doted on the most. His name was Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer..

There was bad blood between Rudolph and Santa, because a long time ago Rudolph had got pissed and tried to leave Santa's happy little workforce. He said Santa was a slave-driver and went to the Union to try to get the minimum wage increased. Unfortunately, Santa had ties in Congress from his time at Enron, IBM and McDonald's, which he used to get a legislation passed that said Reindeer weren't allowed to be in unions. It also allowed Santa to make the minimum wage even more minimal. Needless to say, the other Reindeer were pissed at Rudolph.
For Rudolph's insolence, Santa had him shipped to Barbados in a crate, because it's really hot and Reindeer hate the heat.
These days, if you break The Rules, there are much worse things that can happen than not getting your present. If you break them, you don't get to chill in Toyland (it's inside the Northern Lights) when you die. Well, not without asking for forgiveness. You can do this with a registered elf. If you don't ask for Santa Claus' forgiveness, you have to spend the rest of eternity in Barbados, with all the beautiful, sweaty women who have to take off all their clothes because of the heat, drinking cocktails and listening to Rudolph's cheesy joke's. It would be like a Pierce Brosnan movie gone wrong.

Now, all the trouble starts when a bunch of people decide that the elves seem to be the only ones who ever see Santa, or ever have. Well, crazy people have, and people who've been dead for a few millenia, but nobody's really got a polaroid of him on on that night he got drunk at The Exorcist On Ice and tried to feel up Calista Flockhart, or anything. These people think it's a bit strange how the elves seem to benefit from the Santa Claus mythos (or at least, they see it as a mythos).
They also get pissed when Santa's follower's refuse to look at things logically and persecute people who don't BELIEVE.
The believers say the cynics have no faith. The cynics agree.
The cynics say the believers have no intelligence. For some reason the believers don't agree.
Santa's kids get so stressed out trying to read the strange symbols in books the cynics keep trying to show them (High School Science) that they declare war on followers of the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. They say that anybody who believes in anything that ridiculous must be evil or ignorant. Rudolphians are proclaimed scum of the Earth, since he clearly does exist. Somewhere. Thing is...nobody's ever seen Rudolph either. A group of guys even went to Barbados once to look for him. Well, maybe not only to look for him, but I digress.

There are clearly some pieces that don't fit...

...Can you see where I'm going with this?

In this case, I don't hate Santa Claus - just the idea of him.
I leave you now with this nifty little quote, by Thomas Jefferson:

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

[Milton Bradley]

That was a wonderful analogy Jimi. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Jack]

I dunno..."SantaDamnit" just doesn't do it for me.

[Osborn F Enready]

Wow Jimi, great first post and WELCOME!

I also love the quote.

[Lilith]

Quote by: SNPete I mean aside from creating everything and giving people life, what has God done that would make some people hate Him. Sometimes God does things we don’t like or agree with, but since we owe our very existence to God, who are we to complain or tell God that he is a bad deity? It is one thing to complain, but having hate and contempt. I just don’t understand. To me this seems bizarre. So, for my own education (and perhaps for others as well), to those that do dislike God: why do you hate God?

I don't hate God. I have always maintained that I believe that there is something "greater than us", now what that something is, I'm not sure. I beginning to formulate an opinion on that tho. I just find it real hard to believe that there is some literal being that looks like us sitting up in heaven somewhere. You know the "Sky Fairy". "We all return to the One. But where did the One come from?"....hmmm. Fascinating stuff, to be sure.

[JimiPhoenix]

Quote by: Isherwood I dunno..."SantaDamnit" just doesn't do it for me.

Give it time

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Lilith I don't hate God. I have always maintained that I believe that there is something "greater than us", now what that something is, I'm not sure. I beginning to formulate an opinion on that tho. I just find it real hard to believe that there is some literal being that looks like us sitting up in heaven somewhere. You know the "Sky Fairy". "We all return to the One. But where did the One come from?"....hmmm. Fascinating stuff, to be sure.

That feeling your getting is a natural human desire. That desire is produced from fear of not knowing the macro-questions of philosophy, like why are we here, are we alone, how did the universe begin, etc.

Another reason, IMO, is the food chain. We're at the top, and will always be for a long time. We have no predators besides our own fates we create for ourselves. Someone up there "watching down on us" is a relief to many.

Also, imagine what life would be like if you had a predator, always trying to kill you. Would a powerful being up in the sky really be so important? Think about that for a while.

It's really not so fascinating when you take a step back and look at the big picture. The farther you step back, the more simple things become.

[Blue Orange]

Quote by: Sonart It seems fair to suggest that if God exists, and is truly omnipotent, it does seem to allow a lot of bad things to happen and, depending on who's God, it seems to have a rather cruel sense of humor.... for instance; some would have us believe that God planted false evidence as to the existance of life and times before Genesis. That would mean God then turns around and punishes with eteranl damnation those who, because of God's gift of intelligence and curiosity, discover and believe his false evidence. As Farah said to Karen in 'Out of Africa'... "God is happy. He plays with us." .

I agree, it was a point I was attempting to convey though I didn't make it so well- there seems that God lacks one his attributed characteristics, well attributed by Christianity anyway... there is either a distinct lack of compassion for his creation, a willingness to act but an inability to do so (though that seems a little unlikely given claims he "created the world" from the theists amongst us) or he has moved on.. having learned from his mistakes and decided it is easier to start afresh and leave us to it.
Or as the atheists here would advocate he was never there in the first place, though going down that path may turn this from a rejection of religion thread to one about creationism which probably was not the original intention....

Perhaps some people seem to hate god because religion has so poorly put the case for him/her/it... or grossly overestimated it's willingness to influence (or dare I say placed belief in something that isn’t there?)As really people able to draw upon evidence to show that the deity really does not seem to care. Perhaps, simply the fact that our "god" is not really fulfilling the promises made to us by religion.


I would like to see any theory put forth that allows for a caring God despite the issues of suffering- is there one? Well, aside from blaming it on the inadequacy of humans? For is it not a bad tradesmen who blames his tools?
Or is god merely happy playing with his toys? (Nice quote by the way)

[JimiPhoenix]

I don't worry so much about the supernatural aspects - I tend to look closer to home (i.e. when I think it's just a case of people not using their heads).

As a good example, I tend not to worry so much about how a supposedly omnipotent deity that is perfect can apparently do nothing but make perfect mistakes. Instead, I wonder about the ego of a person that thinks he or she is special enough that something as vast and all-knowing as the Christian God (or any other for that matter) cares even a teensy bit about their lives and their welfare just because they joined his earth-bound fanclub. Even should such a being exist, it's clear to me that they would be fooling theirselves. Hence, I tend to view a lot of religion, especially theistic, deity-based religions as being inherently arrogant.
Think about this - if some people are God's People, what about the poor bastards that aren't God's people. Clearly, they're destined to be plagued and conquered by God's People, as hypothesized by such popular works of fiction as the Bible.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: JimiPhoenix Instead, I wonder about the ego of a person that thinks he or she is special enough that something as vast and all-knowing as the Christian God (or any other for that matter) cares even a teensy bit about their lives and their welfare just because they joined his earth-bound fanclub. Think about this - if some people are God's People, what about the poor bastards that aren't God's people. Clearly, they're destined to be plagued and conquered by God's People, as hypothesized by such popular works of fiction as the Bible.

Two points driven home many times here, but the threads get buried, and most people won't turn the page to bring up the older threads dealing with the same issues.


As to your first point, all it takes is a reading of the bible to figure out most Christians won't be going to Heaven. (if one is inclined to believe the story) The overwhelming majority are deluded, and fooled, or just not devout enough to meet God's criteria for entrance (see Revelation) into Heaven. That point is lost on most, as if they do not wish to address it.


To the second point, I guess a lot of people don't have issues with favoritism by an entity that claims to be just, and caring.


Frankly, I just cannot believe we are still having this discussion in the year 2005.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Frankly, I just cannot believe we are still having this discussion in the year 2005.

I've thought the same thing. It's so strange.

[JimiPhoenix]

Milton: my sentiments precisely. I must say though, the fact that we are still having this discussion is something of a joyous exasperation for me. It fascinates how far people will go to trick their own minds.

[Milton Bradley]

I know, its funny, I get sucked into these discussions all the time, as if I could actually impart some wisdom on somebody. Your laughter here ___________ .

[Plasma Snake[D]]

If we argue about a vague concept then the results will be laughable.

"b) -- to justify the cruel and immoral discrimination of people who were simply born differently than the rest of us, who harm no one and who simply want to be treated as equal participants in their own society -- gays and lesbians."

Would you not agree that maybe our contempt for homosexuals and ugly people comes from the fact that we believe in "God", our best description for "perfection". You see, it is my belief that homosexuals have something in their developement that HAS STRAYED FROM THE COMMON PATH. dont go saying I'm a judgemental asshole that spews anti gay messages cause I'll start crying. Also, we tend to judge a person's health from their exterior appearance. Think about it, we men look at girls breasts, legs, ass... etc. Why? cause they are good indicators as to how the girl will potentially succesfully give you an offspring, if her breasts are big then it means your kid will get fed, But the ass thing boggles me. I know baboons use it as a display thing.
So can you say that a person is "evil" for acting in a way that they can't help? I mean, we can go back and forth, but the people that judge are just as blameless as those that are judged. We don't choose how we were born, what our ancestors did, what our instincts tell us to do... it all makes me more certain that we have little to NO control over what we do.