How do Atheists and Agnostics deal with death?

[sergeant]

It was harsh, sergeant, but first off, I'm not zealot's son... I don't care if he thinks it's short for Sonart, it comes out that way and bugs the hell outta me. Secondly, if I say I don't believe in God, then I don't believe in God and he's simply going to have to take my word for it. What will absolutely guarantee getting my hackles up is if he ignores what I say and continues to think that if he just throws enough Christian missionary sound bites at me that I'm going to stop believing what I believe. Stop it! I am not telling anyone here what they should or should not believe, simply sharing what I believe, thank you all very much. Zealot can accept it or not but he's absolutely not going to change my mind.

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Yeah there's a little history between you..... The passion for debate and sharing! PS CAN SOMEONE BAN ME! I GOT THINGS AND KIDS TO DO AND SPEND TIME WITH! WHAT DO I GOT TO DO TO GET KICKED OFF!

[LetThereBe]

Yeah there's a little history between you..... The passion for debate and sharing! PS CAN SOMEONE BAN ME! I GOT THINGS AND KIDS TO DO AND SPEND TIME WITH! WHAT DO I GOT TO DO TO GET KICKED OFF!

Heh, I know what you mean. This is eating up more of my time then I can really afford.

[Sonart]

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Insidiously addicting, isn't it


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[sergeant]

you all are freaks I’m a freak .....I love to read all of your posts and I'm envious that I don't have the depth you all do........that is it I'm banning myself at least for 30 minutes I saw somewhere a post saying that someone didn't have a life and get out much etc it was over Christians being a adventurous or something...I have to wonder....do any of us have an adventurous life when we are here everyday.....how much adventure is this person expereincing setting at his computer...I see him post a lot....cannot think of the name but I recognize it all the time...see ya later...going to try and avoid the computer for a few days..

[Scribbler1]

you all are freaks I’m a freak .....I love to read all of your posts and I'm envious that I don't have the depth you all do........that is it I'm banning myself at least for 30 minutes I saw somewhere a post saying that someone didn't have a life and get out much etc it was over Christians being a adventurous or something...I have to wonder....do any of us have an adventurous life when we are here everyday.....how much adventure is this person expereincing setting at his computer...I see him post a lot....cannot think of the name but I recognize it all the time...see ya later...going to try and avoid the computer for a few days..

Heh heh. Too late, you'll be back.


-Scribbler, professional freak.

[Scribbler1]

I know it gets in the system, it makes the mind think.

Absolutely. When it comes to what to think with, 9 out of 10 thinkers choose the mind.

[Starboy]

In any event, a "con" would be to promise something and not deliver, but this is generally applied to things in your LIFETIME, like driveway sealing or big bucks by stuffing envelopes. Any promises of an afterlife are made by people who, as yourself, haven't died, which implies the con men believe the same "con" you believe in.. You KNOW these things and still believe. I don't see a "con" in that case.

Fraud can still take place even if the con involved was sincere.

Lawinfo.com -Fraud

Deceitful conduct designed to manipulate another person to give something of value by (1) lying, (2) by repeating something that is or ought to have been known by the fraudulent party as false or suspect or (3) by concealing a fact from the other party which may have saved that party from being cheated. The existence of fraud will cause a court to void a contract and can give rise to criminal liability.

I have certainly seen many Christians lie for Jesus. I have certainly seen them repeat something that they ought to have known to be false or at least suspect. I have certainly seen them conceal facts which have influenced the decisions of those they were trying to convince. And for many, being a Christian can be very expensive. Many give 10% or more of their already limited income to their church. If you do some research on the world wide Christian evangelical movement you will find that the Christians spend on average $300,000 for each conversion world wide. You will find that one of the largest percentages of embezzlement takes place in churches. Then there are the televangelists that get away with all sorts of shenanigans. I have personally witnessed and have been harmed by a Christian fraud. Then there are things like 'god given business', or 'Jesus wants you to be rich'. If Christians kept their superstitions mostly to themselves I would not have much of a problem with them but they are way, way, way out of control. And that of course doesn't even begin to touch on all the deceptions practiced by Christians when it comes to heaven or hell.

Starboy

[Scribbler1]

Fraud can still take place even if the con involved was sincere.

I don't see it.

"Fraud
Deceitful conduct designed to manipulate another person to give something of value by (1) lying, (2) by repeating something that is or ought to have been known by the fraudulent party as false or suspect or (3) by concealing a fact from the other party which may have saved that party from being cheated. The existence of fraud will cause a court to void a contract and can give rise to criminal liability."

That would make the con INsincere then, but I stipulated both parties were believers. And I'd like to see a court void THAT contract!



I have certainly seen many Christians lie for Jesus. I have certainly seen them repeat something that they ought to have known to be false or at least suspect.[/quote]I'm sure that happenes but if a Christian follows their own teachings (bearing false witness and all that) they won't lie. I think you state exceptions and not the rule.

[Starboy]

The key word is "ought". People that go out making representations that they ought to know are at least suspect can be frauds.

As I have pointed out so many times, the vast majority of supernaturalists in the world certainly suspect the supernatural, just not their supernatural. But the problem is that all supernaturalists accept their particular supernatural for pretty much the same reasons and reject the rest for pretty the much the same reasons as all other supernaturalist. Everyone knows this. This one thing alone should be enough for any supernaturalist to suspect their own supernatural or at least they "ought" to suspect it. That is if they were honest.

Starboy

[Scribbler1]

The key word is "ought". People that go out making representations that they ought to know are at least suspect can be frauds.

If they are faithful and believe in what they say, there is no way they could "suspect" a fraud so there is no "ought". This is the flaw in your reasoning. To them, this stuff is divine truth. Not just good old fashioned truth, but DIVINE truth! Not to you, but certainly to them, and there is no fraud if you are a true believer. Just ask a right winger if there is any fraud about Bush.

As I have pointed out so many times, the vast majority of supernaturalists in the world certainly suspect the supernatural, just not their supernatural.

Bingo! THEIR "supernatural" is for real and anything else along those lines, especially anything which brings their "supernatural" into question must be false or you have no belief.

But the problem is that all supernaturalists accept their particular supernatural for pretty much the same reasons and reject the rest for pretty the much the same reasons as all other supernaturalist. Everyone knows this. This one thing alone should be enough for any supernaturalist to suspect their own supernatural or at least they "ought" to suspect it. That is if they were honest.

Starboy

That's faith, the one thing above all else you must have to believe in what you can't see or touch. To them is IS honest. It is not something you or I can understand so we just have to take their word for it.

[Starboy]

If they are faithful and believe in what they say, there is no way they could "suspect" a fraud so there is no "ought". This is the flaw in your reasoning. To them, this stuff is divine truth. Not just good old fashioned truth, but DIVINE truth! Not to you, but certainly to them, and there is no fraud if you are a true believer. Just ask a right winger if there is any fraud about Bush.

Bingo! THEIR "supernatural" is for real and anything else along those lines, especially anything which brings their "supernatural" into question must be false or you have no belief.

That's faith, the one thing above all else you must have to believe in what you can't see or touch. To them is IS honest. It is not something you or I can understand so we just have to take their word for it.

I understand what you are saying but I do not get the impression that you have understood what I have been saying. Perhaps you would like to give it another read.

A person can have all the sincerity in the world, but if they "ought" to have known then it doesn't do them any good at all. It may mitigate the punishment but not the crime.

Starboy

[Flip Jackson]

I think Scribbler has a key point here.

If a person thinks they have or understand an eternal, divine truth, then they feel no need to look further. And anything that contradicts their view would obviously be wrong, because they have the divine truth. This is why they aren't dishonest.

Not everyone thinks the way you do. I agree that people should look at the reasons for their actions a lot more than they do. This doesn't mean that people who are happy with their beliefs and don't feel a need to look further are liars. It means they don't care enough to try to change the beliefs, or they think they are right and don't need to change.

It is difficult to use reason to trump what someone considers divine truth. Divine truth could easily be beyond our pathetic reasoning, which is why many people pass up reason for this divine truth. How can you place so much fault on people that believe differently than you?

I think everyone, not only religious types need to think through what they are doing more. For religious people, they need to think about why they chose the religion they did. Non-religious people need to think about why they live the way theyvdo. Every one needs to look at why they justify their style of life. But no one is at fault for being comfortable with what they have now. They are lazy, tired, busy, or whatever and may not have time to pick apart their way of life.