CHRISTIAN IDENTITY The Christian Identity Movement

[Jack]

First of all, I acknowledge that the average christian, like most of those here, don't sympathize with groups like these. But these thugs are a good illustration of how a philosophy can be perverted to acheive ends that are diametrically opposed to their supposed roots.

The Christian Identity movement is a movement of many extremely conservative Christian churches and religious organizations, extreme right wing political groups and survival groups. Some are independent; others are loosely interconnected. According to Professor Michael Barkun, one of the leading experts in the Christian Identity movement, "This virulent racist and anti-Semitic theology, which is practiced by over 50,000 people in the United States alone, is prevalent among many right wing extremist groups and has been called the 'glue' of the racist right." The largest Christian Identity movement has traditionally been the Ku Klux Klan which was reorganized in 1915 by William Simmons, a Christian pastor. He had been inspired by the film The Birth of a Nation which portrayed the KKK as a champion of white civilization. The KKK slid into obscurity by the second World War, but was revitalized in the mid 1950's as a reaction to enforced racial integration in the southern US. Other current organizations which follow Christian Identity beliefs are: American Nazi Party; Aryan Nations; Church of Jesus Christ Christian, Aryan Nations; Confederate Hammerskins; Jubilee, National Association for the Advancement of White People; The Order; radical modern offshoots of the original Posse Comitatus; Scriptures for America, White Aryan Resistance (WAR) and White Separatist Banner. Many small groups fade in and out of existence frequently. Quoting the FBI's Megiddo Report on domestic terrorism: "Christian Identity also believes in the inevitability of the end of the world and the Second Coming of Christ. It is believed that these events are part of a cleansing process that is needed before Christ’s kingdom can be established on earth. During this time, Jews and their allies will attempt to destroy the white race using any means available. The result will be a violent and bloody struggle -- a war, in effect -- between God’s forces, the white race, and the forces of evil, the Jews and nonwhites. Significantly, many adherents believe that this will be tied into the coming of the new millennium." "The view of what Armageddon will be varies among Christian Identity believers. Some contend there will be a race war in which millions will die; others believe that the United Nations, backed by Jewish representatives of the anti-Christ, will take over the country and promote a New World Order. One Christian Identity interpretation is that white Christians have been chosen to watch for signs of the impending war in order to warn others. They are to then physically struggle with the forces of evil against sin and other violations of God’s law (i.e., race-mixing and internationalism); many will perish, and some of God’s chosen will be forced to wear the Mark of the Beast to participate in business and commerce. After the final battle is ended and God’s kingdom is established on earth, only then will the Aryan people be recognized as the one and true Israel." "Christian Identity adherents believe that God will use his chosen race as his weapons to battle the forces of evil. Christian Identity followers believe they are among those chosen by God to wage this battle during Armageddon and they will be the last line of defense for the white race and Christian America. The Watchman web site contained a quote from a Christian Identity leader which gives a flavor of their style of rhetoric, and their predictions for the future of North America: "We are going to build the Kingdom of our God on this continent if we have to turn it into a Bosnia first! Death may find you in front of your one-eyed church of Satan or in the filthy bingo parlors where you worship your devil god, but be sure that you will not escape the consuming fire that is the real baptism of the Holy Ghost, The God of Racial Israel.

These are our own American terrorists. It's ironic that they are free to exist in America only due to the very freedoms they wish to deny to anyone who doesn't belong to their group.
So without becoming a facist state, how do we deal with threats like these within our own borders?

[Starboy]

Quote by: Isherwood So without becoming a facist state, how do we deal with threats like these within our own borders?

More free speech. I they are abhorrent then bring them out into the light of day. If we do not have the sense to see them for what they are then they have already won.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

Their penchant for violence leads to arrest, conviction and prison time. If they just have racist, execrable views and don't do crimes, I just fart in their general direction...

What's the problem? Just call 'em wackjobs and let it go at that.

[Zealot]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Their penchant for violence leads to arrest, conviction and prison time. If they just have racist, execrable views and don't do crimes, I just fart in their general direction... What's the problem? Just call 'em wackjobs and let it go at that.

YEP, JEST CALL EM NAME, that'l fix em!

Real intelligent there feller! Ya'll been fartin too much there Henry, lookit the huricane yo'all done stirred up, my my!

[Jack]

Armed stupidity makes me nervous. Armed fanatics worry me. Terrorism is just that no matter what side of the fence it's on. And we all know that terrorist groups don't require a huge membership to be quite deadly. Oklahoma City was no less a terrorist bombing than New York.
Racists have always annoyed the hell out of me. It requires the ability to see other people as less than human. Racism is so massively illogical that I consider those afflicted with it to be mentally ill.

[Zealot]

Quote by: Isherwood Armed stupidity makes me nervous. Armed fanatics worry me. Terrorism is just that no matter what side of the fence it's on. And we all know that terrorist groups don't require a huge membership to be quite deadly. Oklahoma City was no less a terrorist bombing than New York. Racists have always annoyed the hell out of me. It requires the ability to see other people as less than human. Racism is so massively illogical that I consider those afflicted with it to be mentally ill.

YOU HAVE READ THE BOOK..."LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER" ?????

Zealot, racism is also a massive word well used by the phony victim, right?

[RickSp]

The American Identity folks are just neo-fascists keying off evangelical Christianity the way the Nazis used Catholicism. What makes these folks so dangerous is the tactic of "leaderless resistance" used by McVeigh and others. They are the fringe of the fringe but as Oklahoma City proved, a couple of guys with a load of fertilizer can do a lot of damage.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Zealot YEP, JEST CALL EM NAME, that'l fix em! Real intelligent there feller! Ya'll been fartin too much there Henry, lookit the huricane yo'all done stirred up, my my!

Hey! Patrick is a fart smeller, I mean smart feller.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: RickSp as Oklahoma City proved, a couple of guys with a load of fertilizer can do a lot of damage.

OKC was an inside job...

[RickSp]

Quote by: PatrickHenry OKC was an inside job...

LOL. Of course it was.


They always are.

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: Zealot YEP, JEST CALL EM NAME, that'l fix em! Real intelligent there feller! Ya'll been fartin too much there Henry, lookit the huricane yo'all done stirred up, my my!

Yeah, instead, let's enact a fascist police state and dictate what people are allowed to think and say. That's a much better idea than allowing people to speak their minds and allowing others to make a decision on their own.

You may as well be a Nazi, because you espouse the ethics of Hitler.

[Starboy]

Quote by: RickSp They are the fringe of the fringe but as Oklahoma City proved, a couple of guys with a load of fertilizer can do a lot of damage.

Are you talking about Bush/Cheney?

Starboy

[leftcider]

The primary "tenent" of the Christian Identity movement is a perversion of the Adam and Eve story. In their version, Eve has sex with Satan, producing a demonic "race", the Jews. Other non-whites are a union between Eve and beasts, and are thus "mud people" and not human. Only White Christian Aryans are products of Adam and Eve and are "full people". Many Christian Identity believers will call themselves the "true Israelites", believing that the so-called Aryans are in fact the Jews of the Bible (the root of this belief is British Israelism, which tried to claim that the British people were the "real" Israelites). Their ideology obviously not being in the Bible, they often seek to rewrite it along lines more fitting to their ideology and release new "translations".

Christian Identity groups have formed insular cults with bizarre rituals and absolute obedience to leadership. Murder and child abuse has been commited at Christian Identity cult compounds.

How do we societally deal with such groups?

Proper monitoring by citizens and law enforcment can yield results. Before a disasterous terrorist attack, they will likely commit dozens of other illegal acts. For example, some Christian Identity groups have engaged in crime in order to raise funds (including bank robbery). They may illegally traffic in weapons, harbor criminals, abuse children, etc, even if no terrorist attack is on their agenda. Closely observe them within the confines of the law (civilians are much less legally restrained than police), report law violations, get warrants. A full detailed search could implicate them in even more illegal activity.

You can't prevent them from acting within the outer reaches of the First Amendment, but the moment they cross the line into illegality, nail them with everything legally possible.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Starboy Are you talking about Bush/Cheney? Starboy

That works too.

[SteveA]

If it's a general group of people that want to rule over others, then we can just add them to the plethora of already existing groups trying to do the same.

If they're trying to be left out of this or are trying to get out from under the thumb of 'the man', then we can add them to the ever growing list of groups that want the same thing.

If it's a group trying to be an innocent bystander in all this ... I wish them luck. I don't see how they'll have much luck in that attempt though but it would seem a noble goal.

[Zealot]

Quote by: Son of Belial Yeah, instead, let's enact a fascist police state and dictate what people are allowed to think and say. That's a much better idea than allowing people to speak their minds and allowing others to make a decision on their own. You may as well be a Nazi, because you espouse the ethics of Hitler.

Hey there sonny, what would you know about Hitler??? That pony tailed professor who taught all about Socialism????

Zee, yee been brainwashed son!

[Zealot]

Quote by: Son of Belial Yeah, instead, let's enact a fascist police state and dictate what people are allowed to think and say. That's a much better idea than allowing people to speak their minds and allowing others to make a decision on their own. You may as well be a Nazi, because you espouse the ethics of Hitler.

Yep son o B, let's gas all detergents and germinate all Christians, huh?

Zealot

[leftcider]

Quote by: Zealot Yep son o B, let's gas all detergents and germinate all Christians, huh? Zealot

You beat me to it Zeal :rolleyes:

[Lilith]

Quote by: leftcider The primary "tenent" of the Christian Identity movement is a perversion of the Adam and Eve story. In their version, Eve has sex with Satan, producing a demonic "race", the Jews. Other non-whites are a union between Eve and beasts, and are thus "mud people" and not human. Only White Christian Aryans are products of Adam and Eve and are "full people". Many Christian Identity believers will call themselves the "true Israelites", believing that the so-called Aryans are in fact the Jews of the Bible (the root of this belief is British Israelism, which tried to claim that the British people were the "real" Israelites). Their ideology obviously not being in the Bible, they often seek to rewrite it along lines more fitting to their ideology and release new "translations". Christian Identity groups have formed insular cults with bizarre rituals and absolute obedience to leadership. Murder and child abuse has been commited at Christian Identity cult compounds.

OMG. You know just when I think I have heard and seen it all, The Lord of Creation never ceases to amaze me. Eve had sex with Satan and then she had sex with the animals to produce all these abonminations of mankind??? Please say that people do not actually believe this! No wonder women have had it rough sometimes(wink)...hell Eve didn't leave us any room for screw ups! For shame! Murder and child abuse??? Where exactly do this pockets of Christian Identity reside...I'm feeling terrorist tendencies coming on....whew! Fan myself, calm to heat of rising anger! Eve had sex with Satan, damn! damn! damn! And what did Adam have to say about all this? I mean where was he, while his wayward wife was astraying? Damn! :)

[Son of Belial]

Are you trying to say Hitler didn't lock people away for disagreeing with him? Just because you're not talking about extermination doesn't mean that your beliefs that people shouldn't be allowed freedom of speech isn't fascist.