qualities of God

[Athena]

Please, demonstrate self control and do not argue there is no God here. That arguement is for a different thread. This thread is solely for the purpose of arguing the qualities of the abstract called God. Specifically this quality of control over all things. Does God like the Greek Gods, cause humans to war? Does God punish and reward human being beings? Why did this God allow hurrican Katrina to hurt so many Christians? What is this God really like?

[zynner]

How will you determine who has given you a correct answer and who has not?

~ zynner

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: Athena Please, demonstrate self control and do not argue there is no God here. That arguement is for a different thread. This thread is solely for the purpose of arguing the qualities of the abstract called God. Specifically this quality of control over all things. Does God like the Greek Gods, cause humans to war?

Humans cause humans to go to war. I think this goes back to the "free will" issue. Diversity in "will" of mankind creates conflict. Conflict results in war when unresolvable by any other means or when "will" of man deems it neccessary.

Quote by: Athena Does God punish and reward human being beings?

I believe this to be true in a sense. God does punish and reward as shown throughout the Bible.

Quote by: Athena Why did this God allow hurrican Katrina to hurt so many Christians?

Katrina is another example of humans hurting themselves through poor decision making. There was enough warning prior to Katrina's landfall where more people should have evacuted...and resources were available to accomplish this. Granted, some of the one's who did evacuate lost their homes and possessions, but what is possessions without life to use it? Oh, and New Orleans wasn't exaclty full of Christian people either...trust me, I live close enough to vouch for this.

Quote by: Athena What is this God really like?

Who's to say what God is really like. All we have to go by is what religion has provided and our personal experiences we go through.

The way I see it, God is a god of love, but, more than that, He's a god of experience. It is through this life we learn what love is. Sometimes, it's learned by experiencing pain and/or forgiveness. Sometimes, it's learned through loss and/or giving. Sometimes, it's learned through war and/or peace. With every experience, God allows us to find our true "self". It's through finding our "self" we realize we are as much a part of God as He is of us. Like I said, this has been my experience. Maybe yours has been different.

[SteveA]

I see God similar to "mother nature".

God does punish and reward people, oftentimes dependent upon their actions and will, though in other ways the basis of this reward and/or punishment are beyond our ability to comprehend.

If you consider what a human would look like from an ant's perspective, we could seem like clouds or mountain ranges and earthquakes. When we turn on the water faucet, to an ant it rains etc.

Ants could learn the general principles that some areas of the home are best not to explore, as it tends to anger the Gods which wreaks a mighty havoc, when the angel Raid descends!

From this point of view at least, God wouldn't be supernatural really, as much as something beyond our comprehension and to what extent God is interested in the individual wellbeing of humans would be questionable. The focus of religions is on humanity, but that makes sense as we're all human and would see God from that perspective, but to what extent God has a plan for humanity doesn't seem clear. Either way, mother nature is still around and seems to possess many similar attributes.

[nm420]

It seems, to me anyhow, God is eternal, omnipresent and transcendental. I agree with SteveA that God is akin to Mother Nature, though of course it goes much deeper than that.

God is the vehicle of karma.

God is most definitely NOT some character up in the clouds who will decide who may enter His Kingdom come Judgment Day, and I suppose I'll rot in hell for all eternity if that statement is incorrect.

[oranged]

I heard some say that god created everything, then stopped and watched. Now he no-onger does anything exept damn people, and let people into heaven. (and speak to profits like jesus or mohamed, in some varitions of this belief.) I like this idea.

[Boetie]

Does God have a biography? He couldn't because he is immutable. Everything is in the present for God - an instantaneous whole. Is God alive? If life requires change and God is immutable, then God cannot be alive.
God cannot have most emotions. God makes no decisions; he already knows what will happen.
Aquinas shamelessly twisted Aristotle to suit Christian theology and just to think the Christians hated the Gnostics for doing the same thing. Oh well Aquinas is double standard.

[LetThereBe]

Abstract: Considered apart from concrete existence.
Not applied or practical
Difficult to understand
The idea of God as abstract depends on the definition, and I beleive the first and third I have provided are applicable, but not the second. For clarification, I would like to know what you mean by abstract. Most Christians beleive God is a personality. Christians attribute such qualities to him as anger, love, mercy, compassion, justice. He is referred to as a judge, a creator, and even as a father. He is described as speaking, and even walking in Genesis. In the Bible He takes numerous physical forms. Perhaps the greatest quality of God would simply be Purity.

[Athena]

Quote by: oranged I heard some say that god created everything, then stopped and watched. Now he no-onger does anything exept damn people, and let people into heaven. (and speak to profits like jesus or mohamed, in some varitions of this belief.) I like this idea.

"profits"? did you mean prophets?

We read in the bible of God walking walking with Adam and Eve, and appearing to Moses as a burning bush, or of angels delievering God's message.

We also can know of people sacrificing to the gods, including sacrificing children to the gods. This is told about in the bible, and archeology and history provides accounts of human sacrificing. It is incredible to me that people believe any God wanting any kind of sacrifice is more real than any other God wanting sacrifice.

[Boetie]

Athena posts It is incredible to me that people believe any God wanting any kind of sacrifice is more real than any other God wanting sacrifice

There are two sacrifice stories that doesn't make sense. The sacrifice of Isaac, what was the point of that other than to show God has to much time on his hands. The other sacrifice story is the Jesus story. If you were a God the dying on the cross story is a joke because Gods don't die. Beside it was said that Jesus didn't really die on the cross, rather there had been a case of mistaken identity.

In both cases it was the son that is going to die. Why don't the dads just go off and kill themselves and leave the sons alone? It is a message that dads don't have sons they have property and the sacrifice is showing what they can do to their property.

[Critter]

I prefer to believe in a benevolent, understanding God. I mean, since God is supposed to be all-knowing, if you make a bad choice with good intentions, don't you think He would understand if it was simply a wrong choice rather than intentional evil?

[Athena]

Quote by: LetThereBe Abstract: Considered apart from concrete existence. Not applied or practical Difficult to understand The idea of God as abstract depends on the definition, and I beleive the first and third I have provided are applicable, but not the second. For clarification, I would like to know what you mean by abstract. Most Christians beleive God is a personality. Christians attribute such qualities to him as anger, love, mercy, compassion, justice. He is referred to as a judge, a creator, and even as a father. He is described as speaking, and even walking in Genesis. In the Bible He takes numerous physical forms. Perhaps the greatest quality of God would simply be Purity.

I think you get the prize for coming closest to answering the question. This biblical God wants sacrifices made to him. Previous deities appreciated gifts, and these did not request sacrifices. The story of Cain and Able, is about this transition from a deity appreciating gifts to one who wants bloody sacrifices. The biblical God was not pleased with gifts of fruits and vegetables that had been traditional gifts to a deity. This God wants bloody animal sacrifices. This God is also a jeolous, revengeful, fearsome sky God.

I think he is worse than Zeus, because Zeus didn't want sacrifices. Another this biblical God is unlike Zeus, is Zeus didn't want to be bothered with humans. The biblical God intentionally creates humans and intervenes in their lives.

The Mother Goddess who predates Zeus and the biblical God, was a caring mother, pleased with gifts. She was less to be upset by humans did, but could be upset by what other immortals did, and when she is upset, things on earth can get very bad. That is why it is important to do what we can to keep her happy. These more feminine qualities don't seem to appear in the biblical God until the New Testament and this is also the end of animal sacrificing. Curious don't you think?

The Mother Goddess seems to come up again in this idea that we find God in nature. This is the early US democracy, diest point of view. That to know how many teeth a horse has, you look in the animals mouth and count its teeth. To anything else we want to know, we look at nature and observe what is so. We can not know God, but only God's manifestion and that is the earth and all life on it. To study God, therefore, is to study His manifestion.

Historically, concepts of God being fearsome or caring, seem to come from different environments. In the fertile valley where life was easy, was the caring Mother Earth Goddess. From the north, that harsh environment that is Tibet today, there was a fearsome sky God who just assume killing pathetic humans. I think the bible is a history of the blending of these concepts of God. What about you? How do you explain how God's personality changes from the old to new testament?

[Athena]

Quote by: Critter I prefer to believe in a benevolent, understanding God. I mean, since God is supposed to be all-knowing, if you make a bad choice with good intentions, don't you think He would understand if it was simply a wrong choice rather than intentional evil?

I really like your cat.

Okay, here is some harsh truth. It doesn't matter what your intentions are when you stick the fork into an electrical socket. You are going to get zap. It doesn't matter how much faith you have in the biblical God, if you are in the area of an earthquake or hurricane of such natural disasters, the laws of physics will determine what happens to you.

However, on the other side of the coin, is if you are a positive person, chances are more good things will happen to you than if you are a negative person. What you project into life is apt to come back to you, be it good and negative.

I think the decisions you make, including what you project into a God, is going to determine what happens to you. I think there might be an after life, and that our experience of the after life, depends solely on what we do with our present lives. If we are prejudice and mean spirited, no matter how well we follow the 10 commandments, heaven will not be better then earth, because we wake up with ourselves, with the same prejudice and mean spirit we may have before death. I am saying, I don't believe in a God we can please, by with prayers or deeds, or by buying candles and lighting them in the church, or paying a gypsy to buy canldles and do her thing, or sacrifices of any kind. I like to believe there is God, but what determines what happens to us, is what we determine for ourselves. It is best to be self aware and understand the world around us, if we want things to go well.

[Athena]

Quote by: Boetie There are two sacrifice stories that doesn't make sense. The sacrifice of Isaac, what was the point of that other than to show God has to much time on his hands. The other sacrifice story is the Jesus story. If you were a God the dying on the cross story is a joke because Gods don't die. Beside it was said that Jesus didn't really die on the cross, rather there had been a case of mistaken identity. In both cases it was the son that is going to die. Why don't the dads just go off and kill themselves and leave the sons alone? It is a message that dads don't have sons they have property and the sacrifice is showing what they can do to their property.

Whoo, heavy duty Dad! I think you said a lot in that one!!!!

[LetThereBe]

Quote by: Athena I think you get the prize for coming closest to answering the question. This biblical God wants sacrifices made to him. Previous deities appreciated gifts, and these did not request sacrifices. The story of Cain and Able, is about this transition from a deity appreciating gifts to one who wants bloody sacrifices. The biblical God was not pleased with gifts of fruits and vegetables that had been traditional gifts to a deity. This God wants bloody animal sacrifices. This God is also a jeolous, revengeful, fearsome sky God. I think he is worse than Zeus, because Zeus didn't want sacrifices. Another this biblical God is unlike Zeus, is Zeus didn't want to be bothered with humans. The biblical God intentionally creates humans and intervenes in their lives. The Mother Goddess who predates Zeus and the biblical God, was a caring mother, pleased with gifts. She was less to be upset by humans did, but could be upset by what other immortals did, and when she is upset, things on earth can get very bad. That is why it is important to do what we can to keep her happy. These more feminine qualities don't seem to appear in the biblical God until the New Testament and this is also the end of animal sacrificing. Curious don't you think? The Mother Goddess seems to come up again in this idea that we find God in nature. This is the early US democracy, diest point of view. That to know how many teeth a horse has, you look in the animals mouth and count its teeth. To anything else we want to know, we look at nature and observe what is so. We can not know God, but only God's manifestion and that is the earth and all life on it. To study God, therefore, is to study His manifestion. Historically, concepts of God being fearsome or caring, seem to come from different environments. In the fertile valley where life was easy, was the caring Mother Earth Goddess. From the north, that harsh environment that is Tibet today, there was a fearsome sky God who just assume killing pathetic humans. I think the bible is a history of the blending of these concepts of God. What about you? How do you explain how God's personality changes from the old to new testament?

God according to Christianity. I will not deny the apparent shift between old testament and new testament God. As I mentioned before, I believe the number one quality of God is purity. Humans violated his purity in the garden of Eden, and were banished, and became objects of His wrath. Supposedly, Jesus Christ was sacrificed and finally satisfied the wrath of God, hence we are able to return to the pre-fall state and experience the love and mercy that God is also capable of.
This justifies a longer answer, but that will have to wait utnil later....

[Samildanach]

I prefer to believe in a benevolent, understanding God. I mean, since God is supposed to be all-knowing, if you make a bad choice with good intentions, don't you think He would understand if it was simply a wrong choice rather than intentional evil?

Apparently the road to hell is paved with good intentions. :)

[5010]

"Why, God?"

This is the way I look at it. There is suffering, and here we are wondering with minds housed in brains that are the most marvelous structures in the known universe.

And why are our brains so amazing? Because the forces of destruction have played against the forces of diversity.

Here we are smart, because sometimes there was some benefit in our forebear's ability to outsmart their contemporaries in the face of danger and rule the niche and contribute that aspect of their design to us.

And here we are compassionate, because sometimes our forebears couldn't escape danger and by compassion helped each other survive and passed down that aspect of their design to us.

So instead of seeing a hurricane or earthquake as Wrath Of God, I see humans daring to live in the midst of danger because countless ancestors survived or were rescued from dangers and they are who they are because of that danger.

And I don't see God interfering.

And when I look at it this way, I'm ok with God not interfering. It is this Nature I live in that made me who I am, smart enough to wonder, compassionate enough to care, and thrilled when in the midst of its powerful deadly forces.

[LetThereBe]

Quote by: 5010 "Why, God?" This is the way I look at it. There is suffering, and here we are wondering with minds housed in brains that are the most marvelous structures in the known universe. And why are our brains so amazing? Because the forces of destruction have played against the forces of diversity. Here we are smart, because sometimes there was some benefit in our forebear's ability to outsmart their contemporaries in the face of danger and rule the niche and contribute that aspect of their design to us. And here we are compassionate, because sometimes our forebears couldn't escape danger and by compassion helped each other survive and passed down that aspect of their design to us. So instead of seeing a hurricane or earthquake as Wrath Of God, I see humans daring to live in the midst of danger because countless ancestors survived or were rescued from dangers and they are who they are because of that danger. And I don't see God interfering. And when I look at it this way, I'm ok with God not interfering. It is this Nature I live in that made me who I am, smart enough to wonder, compassionate enough to care, and thrilled when in the midst of its powerful deadly forces.

So do you infer that impotence be an attribute of God? Or just one of his qualities is non-existence...

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Athena Please, demonstrate self control and do not argue there is no God here. That arguement is for a different thread. This thread is solely for the purpose of arguing the qualities of the abstract called God. Specifically this quality of control over all things. Does God like the Greek Gods, cause humans to war? Does God punish and reward human being beings? Why did this God allow hurrican Katrina to hurt so many Christians? What is this God really like?

first let me deal with the attribute of my God that I consider to be the number one attribute. Grace
God's Grace
The fullness of God's grace is beyond human appreciation, comprehension or full knowledge. The riches of His goodness cannot be expressed or described by mortal tongue. We can only attempt to describe it, and our best efforts will be a puny approximation. We can admire the beauty of divine grace, but we cannot really explore its depths. At best we can only stand in awe at what we see, and exclaim with the Apostle Paul:

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments and unfathomable his ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became his counselor? Or who has first given to him that it might be paid back to him again? For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory for ever. Amen. (Rom. 11:33-36.)
Anyone who attempts to talk about God's grace must begin, again with Paul, by confessing personal inadequacy for the task (2 Cor. 3:5). We are at best clay pots, entrusted with a priceless treasure (2 Cor. 4:7). Yet God can enable even clay pots to speak his word and glorify his name. "Our adequacy is from God" (2 Cor. 3:5). "We do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake" (2 Cor. 4:5). The "surpassing greatness of the power" is from God and not from us (2 Cor. 4:7).
Scripture reveals much about the grace of God, and we will profit from studying what it reveals. It is possible that sermon subjects, like ladies' fashions or teenagers' music, go in cycles. Perhaps we have neglected the grace of God -- to our own great loss and harm -- because those before us, or around us, neglected man's responsibility to obey God. Whatever the reason, many sermons, conversations and class discussions these days seem to indicate a lack of basic appreciation for this central theme of the New Testament. Let us give some thought to what Scripture says about God's grace.
Two Fundamental Principles

Before we notice what the Bible says about God's grace, we ought to know two fundamental and eternal principles which run throughout the Scriptures. One has to do with God's nature -- the other has to do with ours.


God Must Punish Sin

The first is found in Romans 6:23, and is simply this: "The wages of sin is death." In other words, it is an eternal principle which cannot be revoked that God must punish sin. Any doctrine, any definition, any concept which does not take this into account is wrong from the beginning. According to God's own revelation of himself in Scripture and in Jesus Christ, God inherently hates sin and must punish it. As we study the grace of God, then, we must begin with this clear understanding. The wages of sin is death. It is a part of God's own divine nature that this be the case. God cannot overlook sin forever, or winked at it indefinitely, or simply sweep it under the rug. Because God is God, sin must be punished.


We all are Sinners

There is a second eternal truth, just as true and just as eternal as the first. This eternal principle has to do with our fallen nature, and it is stated in Romans 3:23. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Human beings since Adam, because we are a fallen race, always sin. Every responsible man and woman (except Christ) has sinned. The human race fell into sin through the disobedience of Adam, our first representative (Rom. 5:18). By our own disobedience we have proved ourselves Adam's true descendants. In two ways, therefore, we all sinned -- representatively, in our first forefather, and individually, by our own wrong choices.

There can be no doubt that we all are sinners. This is an eternal principle of God's word, basic to us for the simple reason that we are part of fallen humanity. All have sinned (in the past) and all continue to come short of God's glory. Any doctrine or definition or discussion of grace which overlooks this basic concept is also wrong from the very start. This is a very simple, but absolutely necessary, point from which we must start.

As we begin to consider God's grace, then, we see two fundamental principles. Neither can be ignored in our study. On the one hand, because God is God, sin must be punished. On the other hand, because we humans are fallen, we have always sinned. How can we reconcile these two truths? If all of us have sinned, and if sin demands death, how can anyone be saved? If God, in his very nature, hates and punishes sin, how can he ever bless, or smile with favor, or "save" ANY HUMAN BEING when ALL have sinned? The doctrine of God's grace must answer this question. But it must take into account both the fundamental truths which we have noticed as it does.

[dthmstr254]

What Grace Is Not

Before we notice what grace IS in the New Testament, we need to see two things that grace is NOT. Both these errors are popularly taught and believed today. Sometimes one of them leads to the other. Sometimes people who have been taught one, and learned better, go so far from that error that they fall into the other extreme which is also erroneous. Let us see, then, two erroneous ideas about God's grace -- and see by the word of God that neither is true or worthy of our confidence, but that both deserve only to be rejected and warned against. These two erroneous ideas about grace relate to the two eternal principles we have already noticed. One of them fails to take into account what we have seen about God. The other does not deal with the truth we have observed about ourselves. These are the twin errors of LICENSE and LEGALISM.


Grace Is Not License

In the first place, grace is not license! The doctrine of "license" says, in effect: "Ignore God's law and count on his grace." This doctrine implies that our attitude and actions toward God do not matter at all -- that we can flagrantly live in knowing and willful rebellion against God if we wish --and that somehow God's grace will take care of anyway when we face God in judgment. There are those today, and were in New Testament times, who taught LICENSE in the name of grace. But Scripture plainly teaches that grace is not license.

License is a perversion of God's grace. It denies what we have seen already about God: that he hates sin and always punishes it. This error ignores God's just demand for a sinless life. It perverts the true grace of God. It is wrong, and always has been. License is not grace, because license does not take into account the eternal principle which grows out of God's very nature: God demands a sinless life and always punishes sin with death.

Let us notice the New Testament evidence of three writers which proves beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt that LICENSE is not the true grace of God. Other Scriptures could be found along this same line. But these will be enough to clearly demonstrate to any honest person that the grace of God is not LICENSE. Grace does not mean "do as you please and somehow God will forgive everything."

The first witness is the Apostle Paul. When Paul preached on grace, sometimes his critics accused him of preaching license. He answers this charge very clearly in his epistle to the Romans. Paul speaks there of God's grace to man in these words:

For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. And the law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom. 5:19-21) .
In these verses Paul magnifies the grace of God. As much as Adam did for harm to the human race -- and Paul affirms more about that than we sometimes have wished to acknowledge -- Christ did so much more for mankind by His own life of obedience to God. Where sin increased, Paul says, grace increased even more! Satan could not have the last word! His most horrible evil is overshadowed entirely by God's kindness to sinners through Jesus Christ.

Some of those who heard Paul preach these things responded by accusing him of teaching license. They said that his teaching would encourage people to go ahead and sin, counting on God's grace to save them. Paul responded to this charge in the very next verses.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? . . . Knowing this, that our old self was crucified with him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. . . . Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you should obey its lusts (Rom. 6:1, 2, 6, 12).
Grace does not mean LICENSE! Grace is NOT permission to go on sinning. Anyone who says that it is, is wrong -- according to the Apostle Paul in these verses. But this is not all. The advocates of LICENSE -- whether they be indulgent "church members" who want to do as they please, advocates of a so-called "new morality" who say that all the gates are now open for unbridled satisfaction of every desire of body and mind, or libertines who preach as gospel a doctrine of "do as you please and God will overlook it all somehow" -- are all WRONG! Grace is not license.

If grace were license, we should expect the Bible to say something like this: "The grace of God has appeared, teaching us to give in to every desire, to live a riotous, indulgent and self-satisfying life while we have opportunity." Those who are familiar with Scripture know that it says almost exactly the opposite. Paul wrote to younger preacher Titus:

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires, and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good deeds. These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you (Tit. 2:11-15).
Grace is not license.

To Paul's testimony we can now add the words of the Apostle Peter. His second general epistle was written for the express purpose of warning in advance of false teachers who would scoff at Christ's promised coming and would advocate lustful living now (2 Pet. 3:1-4). In response to these evil men, Peter admonishes saints to live holy lives -- to be ready for the Lord's return. Listen to his words:

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness (2 Pet. 3:11).
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by him in peace, spotless and blameless (v. 14).
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness (v. 17).
Peter warns against the doctrine of license. In direct contrast to it, he admonishes in verse 18:

But grow in the GRACE and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Grace is not "do as you please." It is not license. It is not divine tolerance of sin. License denies the fundamental truth of God's holy nature. It ignores the fact that He punishes sin and that the wages of sin is always death. No doctrine of the true grace of God can conclude that grace is simply license. But we have another witness.

Jude, the half-brother of the Lord, began to write a joyful epistle celebrating salvation in Jesus. Because of some who were teaching license, however, he felt compelled to change his plan, writing instead to warn believers against those perverters of grace.

Beloved, while I was making every effort to write to you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you content earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, . . . ungodly men who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (Jude 3-4).
His epistle closes with a warning and an exhortation.

But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, "In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts" (Jude 17-18).

But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life (Jude 20-21).
Grace is not license. License is a perversion of grace It fails to take into account the fundamental and eternal nature of God. It ignores the fact that He hates sin, that sin must be punished, and that the wages of sin is death. Paul warns against license in the name of grace. Peter warns against the same error. Jude does the same. Grace is not "do as you please." License is a perversion of the true grace of God.

But there is another error which is sometimes preached in the name of grace, an error which is the opposite extreme to license. That other false extreme is legalism.