Christian≠Christian Right

[PatrickHenry]

I am tired of being lumped with the Christian Right just because I believe in Jesus and the promises he made to his people. IMO there are a multitude of good people, who claim to be Christian, and who support the Bushite agenda. Most are deluded by the false claims. Others are having cognitive conflicts as the smoke begins to billow around the throne. Still others are shouting "Fire!" and fleeing the room...

There is plenty to argue about with the Right end of the political spectrum. But when religion gets tossed in the mix, the knots get so tight we can't find the end of the thread. I just want the other members to know that there are plenty of us who honor Jesus and disagree nearly in toto with everything Bush stands for. He doesn't represent us AT ALL.

Foreign wars are not in the picture when one considers the faith presented by Our Savior. That is entirely a false doctrine proposed by Satan, and infused into a corrupted church by his servants who masquerade as Christians. Greed and corporatism, the mercantilist philosophy are not Jesus' message either. These are a fraud and may be laid at the feet of my enemies, the (so called "Christian") Right.

So: Some of the Christian Right are cynical sociopaths, cleverly manipulating the unsophisticated into following their demonic course. Others, most of the millions who self-identify as Christian Right, are dupes who lack the capacity to see through the fraud. They are our friends and neighbors, our relatives, whom we love. It is frustrating trying to apprise them of the situation, because their views are handed to them by a biased media and reinforced daily.

To my opponents on the left and outside the faith, I say, "Stop throwing all Christians into the same box!" To my opponents on the Christian Right I say, "Don't be surprised that I sling rocks at your positions. They are not the views of Jesus."

[SteveA]

I'm not even a christian and I know Bush doesn't represent christianity. I can't believe there aren't more people out there defending themselves against being misrepresented by the guy.

It's saddening to think that so many christians simply follow the leader without a strong internal perspective. The same could be said for Republicans ... oh wait I think I'll toss Democrats in there as well. It's just a general follow the leader syndrome.

I posted this link a little bit ago but I'll post it again as it seems very relevant:
http://www.born-again-christian.info...george.III.htm

[Lilith]

Good post, PH. The Christian Right are soooo wrong! And not to "right" about anything.

[Jack]

Patrick Henry; good rant about being misrepresented and lumped together with those with whom you only have a superficial resemblance.
In the same spirit, let me assure you that while I do not agree with theism, your continuing references to the "hate" atheists feel for christians are just as imprecise. Some of us may indded hate those of your beliefs, but I and many like me do not. We simply disagree with you.
So please don't lump me in with those who you feel hate you or your beliefs. It's a difference in beliefs, that's all.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Isherwood We simply disagree with you. So please don't lump me in with those who you feel hate you or your beliefs. It's a difference in beliefs, that's all.

I know, Isherwood. I don't mean you when I refer to the haters. And I respect other folks choices and decisions regarding faith. I recognize the subtlety of the logic that leads to belief in the non-physical and can see that it is impossible for some to go there. People of good will shouldn't fight over God, but I do recognize hate when I see it, too...

[belverron]

Kudos on the not equal sign.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: belverron Kudos on the not equal sign.

Heh. Found it on the character map.

[Jack]

Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool, too.

Usually it seems you take the time to find the perfect symbol for "does not equal" or the English pound (as in money) only to find that the place you want to paste it to doesn't support that symbol in its available fonts. Bloggers run into that frequently.

[xyzer]

Isherwood comes closest to reality!
Just because someone disagrees with your point of view you can't logically generalize that all others who might have the same views are flawed and have the same religious or non religious beliefs. It does not make sense?
None of us hew a straight path on all the issues. We agree with some and disagree with some. If we agree with Bush we don't automatically become part of the religious right? If we agree Clinton was a moral disaster for this country we dont necessarily have to be a rightist God fearing person.
I think PH is caught up in the frenetic political discourse we currently see in the USA. The Democrats have been out of power for so many years they are striking out critically at almost any attempt by the Republicans to better our lot. Good example is the social security initiative which the democrats have all but killed even though it addressed a problem that will arise in a few years.
The Iraq invasion has been a real good "strawman" which can be used to attack> Seems to me when this stuff gets so intense we rarely get anything done! And the nation suffers!

[Starboy]

Quote by: PatrickHenry To my opponents on the left and outside the faith, I say, "Stop throwing all Christians into the same box!" To my opponents on the Christian Right I say, "Don't be surprised that I sling rocks at your positions. They are not the views of Jesus."

No sympathy from me. As far as I am concerned you all screwed up when most of you decided that mixing religion and politics was a good idea. And the rest of you just pretty much stood by and let them get away with it. Granted there were a small handful that tried to do something but as far as I am concerned it is like saying that a small percentage of Nazis tried to stop the brutality of the Nazi party. It is never the good acts of a group that condemns them. If you call yourself a Nazi and you don't like what Nazis are doing then stop calling yourself a Nazi. Same goes if you are a Christian.

Starboy

[Protostar]

Quote by: Starboy No sympathy from me. As far as I am concerned you all screwed up when most of you decided that mixing religion and politics was a good idea. And the rest of you just pretty much stood by and let them get away with it. Granted there were a small handful that tried to do something but as far as I am concerned it is like saying that a small percentage of Nazis tried to stop the brutality of the Nazi party. It is never the good acts of a group that condemns them. If you call yourself a Nazi and you don't like what Nazis are doing then stop calling yourself a Nazi. Same goes if you are a Christian. Starboy

That's not very good logic. If I don't like what other Americans are doing, do I stop calling myself American? If I don't like what other men are doing do I stop calling myself a man? That logic can be taken in all sorts of directions, none of which make any sense. Just because he doesn't agree with what other Christians are doing, doesn't mean he has to stop believing in the Christian faith.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Protostar That's not very good logic. If I don't like what other Americans are doing, do I stop calling myself American?

Some people do that. Or they pretend to be Canadian.

If I don't like what other men are doing do I stop calling myself a man?

Some people do this as well. They hate humans and would prefer to be called a primate or animal or anything else.

That logic can be taken in all sorts of directions, none of which make any sense. Just because he doesn't agree with what other Christians are doing, doesn't mean he has to stop believing in the Christian faith.

First off anything can be taken to extremes however it is not as if the whole world is Christian. At most it is only one third of the world and there would certainly be nothing wrong if they just decided not to be Christian. It is not as if the Christians are not hard at work to change the minds of the rest of the world to stop being what they identify as and turn everyone into a Christian. And of the one third that claims to be a Christian it is not as if half of those do not think that the other half is actually Christian, and that is just taking a very gross view, they are far more divided than that. If there is any extreme here it is your comment that changing one's identification is not something that happens all the time even to Christians. In fact in the US it is happening at an ever increasing rate. Nontheist is the largest growing segment in the country. And from the way Christians have been behaving it is no surprise.

Christians, put your house in order or shut up or stop being a Christian.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Starboy Christians, put your house in order or shut up or stop being a Christian

That's what this thread is about. Nothing new about your opinions of christianity. Same old hate.

[Starboy]

Quote by: PatrickHenry That's what this thread is about. Nothing new about your opinions of christianity. Same old hate.

Now who has the hate. You could have just as well taken it as constructive criticism. Yes I am telling you that you all suck, but I am suggesting what you can do about it.

Starboy

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Starboy constructive criticism

?

Nothing constructive about your hate, Starboy. Its source is the spirit of darkness.

[Starboy]

Quote by: PatrickHenry ? Nothing constructive about your hate, Starboy. Its source is the spirit of darkness.

And you say I hate. Go look in the mirror.

Starboy

[gr8fuldaniel]

Anything constructive about this:
I was reading this LA Times story about james Dobson and child abuse:

LINK "I've tried spanking him with a switch like Dr. Dobson says, but it hasn't been effective," the mother said. "I've tried explaining to him that Mommy and Daddy make mistakes too and we all have to ask Christ's forgiveness. Nothing works. And I just lose it."

But I guess thats small time and chicken shit compared to what the Bible demands:

Deuteronomy 21:18..."If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where they shall say to those city elders, 'This son of ours is a stubborn and unruly fellow who will not listen to us; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' Then all his fellow citizens shall STONE HIM TO DEATH."

I am strongly opposed to child abuse (and murder), even if the bible demands it.

"Man is certainly stark mad; he cannot make a worm, and yet he will be making gods by dozens." ----Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne (1533–1592)

I believe there is a Supreme Being, I also believe there have been many more false profits, than real ones.

[Starboy]

So gr8fuldaniel are you saying that you are not willing to give up your core beliefs in the supernatural but you are willing to consider no longer identifying yourself as a Christian?

Starboy

[gr8fuldaniel]

I am willing to scrap anything that stops measuring up to "TRUTH".

My understanding of God is ever evolving, may never be perfected, but is always being perfected.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Starboy but you are willing to consider no longer identifying yourself as a Christian?

Whose definition of "Christian" are we using?