Religon=Mind Control

[ghost_stalker]

Almost everyday I hear about how some parents raise thier children to have an incorrect view of the world and how it detrimentaly efected the child later on in life. Children have evn come back at a later date and sued or otherwise prosecuted their parents for brainwashing them. For Example: If a parent tells their child that killing is ok, and the child actually ends up killing a person because they think it is acceptable because of what their parents taught them, and children have actually sued thier parents for brainwashing them. (in other words a type of mind control)

Religon is the same thing, just in place of the child is the follower of the religon, and in place of the parent is the religon itself.

So in a sense everyone that is part of a religon is under a type of mind control, and because it is widespread it is socially acceptable.

But, as tobacco compaines were sued for selling a harmful product that was once socaill accpetable, and later fast fod companies were sued for causing harm for an activity that was socially accpetable. Will one day religous institustion be sued for brainwahing their followers?

[nm420]

I would hope by the time society sheds this overbearing institution they will have also learned to stop litigating against organizations that have not harmed people but by their own free will. If you're silly enough to pick up that pack of Reds or that Big Mac, then you should be willing to suffer the consequences of such action. Likewise, if you decide to pick up the Bible (or Torah, or Qu'ran or Vedas, or whatever) of your own free will and undergo this brainwashing, there's no one to blame but yourself. I seriously believe some people actually prefer to be told what to do. It's a shame, but what are you going to do: make them think for themselves?

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: ghost_stalker Almost everyday I hear about how some parents raise thier children to have an incorrect view of the world and how it detrimentaly efected the child later on in life. Children have evn come back at a later date and sued or otherwise prosecuted their parents for brainwashing them. For Example: If a parent tells their child that killing is ok, and the child actually ends up killing a person because they think it is acceptable because of what their parents taught them, and children have actually sued thier parents for brainwashing them. (in other words a type of mind control) Religon is the same thing, just in place of the child is the follower of the religon, and in place of the parent is the religon itself. So in a sense everyone that is part of a religon is under a type of mind control, and because it is widespread it is socially acceptable. But, as tobacco compaines were sued for selling a harmful product that was once socaill accpetable, and later fast fod companies were sued for causing harm for an activity that was socially accpetable. Will one day religous institustion be sued for brainwahing their followers?

This is like saying, "if you believe in anything, you've been brainwashed." Why should religion be a source of brainwashing? How does one without religion know he/she has not been brainwashed into disbelief?

[ghost_stalker]

Quote by: gr8ridejester Quote: Quote by: ghost_stalker Almost everyday I hear about how some parents raise thier children to have an incorrect view of the world and how it detrimentaly efected the child later on in life. Children have evn come back at a later date and sued or otherwise prosecuted their parents for brainwashing them. For Example: If a parent tells their child that killing is ok, and the child actually ends up killing a person because they think it is acceptable because of what their parents taught them, and children have actually sued thier parents for brainwashing them. (in other words a type of mind control) Religon is the same thing, just in place of the child is the follower of the religon, and in place of the parent is the religon itself. So in a sense everyone that is part of a religon is under a type of mind control, and because it is widespread it is socially acceptable. But, as tobacco compaines were sued for selling a harmful product that was once socaill accpetable, and later fast fod companies were sued for causing harm for an activity that was socially accpetable. Will one day religous institustion be sued for brainwahing their followers? This is like saying, "if you believe in anything, you've been brainwashed." Why should religion be a source of brainwashing? How does one without religion know he/she has not been brainwashed into disbelief?

This method of answering a qestion with another question is getting increasingly annoying. And if tobacco advertising is considered brainwashing, and now the government considers some fast food advertisements a from of rainwashing, why shouldnt religon be considered as such???

Although religous advertising is more discreet it still exists, why do you think the religons try to place there buildings at locations with large amounts of traffic???, why do they send out preachers to homless shelters, prisons and other facilities where people who are down at a point in their lives??? Its just like a cigarette or a burger, everywhere you go you can find one, or an advertisement for one.

[Athena]

Quote by: nm420 I would hope by the time society sheds this overbearing institution they will have also learned to stop litigating against organizations that have not harmed people but by their own free will. If you're silly enough to pick up that pack of Reds or that Big Mac, then you should be willing to suffer the consequences of such action. Likewise, if you decide to pick up the Bible (or Torah, or Qu'ran or Vedas, or whatever) of your own free will and undergo this brainwashing, there's no one to blame but yourself. I seriously believe some people actually prefer to be told what to do. It's a shame, but what are you going to do: make them think for themselves?

For about 100 years, free public education in the US taught independent thinking. The Conceptual Method was used, teaching more and more complex concepts from grade 1 and up. This education put all decisions, responsibility and accountability, squarely on the shoulders of the individual. We understood this was more important to the democracy of the US than religious indocrination.

The results of replacing that education with education for technology, and leaving moral training to the church is frightening. The ramifications are many.

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: ghost_stalker This method of answering a qestion with another question is getting increasingly annoying.

Every action calls for an equal but opposite reaction. Is it annoying because it causes you to think? If so, good. I like people to really think about what they are asking.

Quote by: ghost_stalker And if tobacco advertising is considered brainwashing, and now the government considers some fast food advertisements a from of rainwashing, why shouldnt religon be considered as such??? Although religous advertising is more discreet it still exists, why do you think the religons try to place there buildings at locations with large amounts of traffic???, why do they send out preachers to homless shelters, prisons and other facilities where people who are down at a point in their lives??? Its just like a cigarette or a burger, everywhere you go you can find one, or an advertisement for one.

Location is key in many situations and is a part of marketing. Non-believers insidious attempts to belittle those who have religion is a form of brainwashing also as it is persuasion by propaganda (the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person). So, the fact we are on a forum talking about our own beliefs could even be considered as a form of "brainwash", if someone is persuaded by anothers comments

[SteveA]

Quote by: nm420 I would hope by the time society sheds this overbearing institution they will have also learned to stop litigating against organizations that have not harmed people but by their own free will. If you're silly enough to pick up that pack of Reds or that Big Mac, then you should be willing to suffer the consequences of such action. Likewise, if you decide to pick up the Bible (or Torah, or Qu'ran or Vedas, or whatever) of your own free will and undergo this brainwashing, there's no one to blame but yourself. I seriously believe some people actually prefer to be told what to do. It's a shame, but what are you going to do: make them think for themselves?

Well said :)

[Starboy]

Quote by: nm420 I would hope by the time society sheds this overbearing institution they will have also learned to stop litigating against organizations that have not harmed people but by their own free will. If you're silly enough to pick up that pack of Reds or that Big Mac, then you should be willing to suffer the consequences of such action.

Hear! Hear!

Likewise, if you decide to pick up the Bible (or Torah, or Qu'ran or Vedas, or whatever) of your own free will and undergo this brainwashing, there's no one to blame but yourself. I seriously believe some people actually prefer to be told what to do. It's a shame, but what are you going to do: make them think for themselves?

I have tried to get them to think but it appears to be an impossible task without the ability to somehow improve their brain power. Short of that what we have is a lot of people just begging to be led by the nose with a few opportunists more than willing to pull them around by the nose. In that situation is it better to be the puller or the pulled? Or just try to stay clear of the entire mess?

Starboy

[LetThereBe]

brainwashing: Intensive, forcible indoctrination aimed at replacing a person's basic convictions with an alternative set of beliefs.
That's what my dictionary says, and I believe it to be a pretty good definition. That having been said, a few questions remain. Is religion imposed forcibly? Are the religions replacing said person's basic convictions.
I would argue no to both in most circumstances. A young child brought up in a religion might be involuntary, but they have not yet developed any convictions of their own, so I don't think that would quite qualify as "brainwashing" I find such cases unfortunate, as I think it would be nice to let our children make as many choices as they can without obvious bias.
As for the second question, if we assume the person already has developed their own convictions, then I don't think they will join a religion that runs contrary to them. Either they will join with others who think like they do, or they will have no convictions, and just desire to be led like sheep, as said by others above.

[Irene]

I have tried to get them to think but it appears to be an impossible task without the ability to somehow improve their brain power. Short of that what we have is a lot of people just begging to be led by the nose with a few opportunists more than willing to pull them around by the nose. In that situation is it better to be the puller or the pulled?

Now that sounds like your describing 99% of Democrats. Politicians can be brainwashers, you want to do away with them too? Most children that reach the age of reason, can make decisions on religion themselves.... Sorry but we're here to stay.

[Starboy]

Quote by: LetThereBe I would argue no to both in most circumstances. A young child brought up in a religion might be involuntary, but they have not yet developed any convictions of their own, so I don't think that would quite qualify as "brainwashing" I find such cases unfortunate, as I think it would be nice to let our children make as many choices as they can without obvious bias.

Perhaps not brainwashing. Maybe braintrashing or brainfilthing?

Starboy

[lsbskins1]

My .02 worth. Institutions corrupt. Sooner or later, every organized religion becomes an institution. Sooner or later every institution begins to value it's existence and continuation over it's very purpose. That is why the Catholic Church moves a molesting priest quietly to another parish rather than publicly admit that a priest has done something that should be reprehensible to the institution. They convince themselves that preserving the appearance of goodness is more important than actual goodness. They believe this because it helps them keep the "power" they feel is essential to their "mission". In the end, they probably lose all moral authority in pursuit of power. The same thing happens to unions and police forces and governmental agencies. It is not an inherent problem with religion. It is an inherent problem with humans. They all seek power for self-perpetuation and power is inherrently corrupting.

[ghost_stalker]

Quote by: gr8ridejester Quote: Quote by: ghost_stalker This method of answering a qestion with another question is getting increasingly annoying. Every action calls for an equal but opposite reaction. Is it annoying because it causes you to think? If so, good. I like people to really think about what they are asking.

Yes but those who fail to see the answer, and keep blindly asking. Its that ignorance that annoys me.

Quote by: gr8ridejester Quote: Quote by: ghost_stalker And if tobacco advertising is considered brainwashing, and now the government considers some fast food advertisements a from of rainwashing, why shouldnt religon be considered as such??? Although religous advertising is more discreet it still exists, why do you think the religons try to place there buildings at locations with large amounts of traffic???, why do they send out preachers to homless shelters, prisons and other facilities where people who are down at a point in their lives??? Its just like a cigarette or a burger, everywhere you go you can find one, or an advertisement for one. Location is key in many situations and is a part of marketing. Non-believers insidious attempts to belittle those who have religion is a form of brainwashing also as it is persuasion by propaganda (the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person). So, the fact we are on a forum talking about our own beliefs could even be considered as a form of "brainwash", if someone is persuaded by anothers comments

Religon has to be taught and even forced upon people, and those who are a part of it from a young age are, in most cases complete puppets to their religon never seeing or looking at the facts or life staring them in the face, preferring the mental numbness that institution provides them.

[PatrickHenry]

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God!
Worldly wise atheists, destined for destruction.
Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: ghost_stalker Yes but those who fail to see the answer, and keep blindly asking. Its that ignorance that annoys me.

So true.

Oh, btw, you don't need a comma before and in your sentence above. :rolleyes:

Quote by: ghost_stalker Religon has to be taught and even forced upon people, and those who are a part of it from a young age are, in most cases complete puppets to their religon never seeing or looking at the facts or life staring them in the face, preferring the mental numbness that institution provides them.

Of course religion has to be taught. I suppose children could just happen upon it, but that would be unlikely...not impossible though. It is pretentious to assume people do not question their religion. Interesting. I've never heard anyone say they prefer mental numbness.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God! Worldly wise atheists, destined for destruction. Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools

Indeed.

[ghost_stalker]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Quote: Quote by: PatrickHenry Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God! Worldly wise atheists, destined for destruction. Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools Indeed.

What the hell is that supposed to mean???
Attempting to quote your book of ignorance as a contradicting point???

That would be comparable to a tobacco company quoting its own ad in its defense wouldnt it???

[phoenix_fire]

If anyone wants to talk about brainwashing or indoctrination, one need look no further than the schools and popular entertainment. Raise your hand if you watched "Captain Planet" when you were a kid. Have you ever noticed that television shows intentionally integrate minority characters in proportions unrepresentative of their actual numbers? What about programs that intentionally showcase homosexual behavior? If you don't think they have an agenda, you are fooling yourself. How about all that lovely nationalism we have shoved down our throats K-12? Perhaps our high divorce rate can be linked to the perpetual brainwashing of a million impossible and fairy tale fake romantic comedies. How about product placement? If you've ever had/cared for kids, you know how effective a good ad can be. And there is no end to the movies, songs, and books which have thinly veiled political messages.

In short, everyone has something of which they want to convince someone else. There is really nothing wrong with proponents of religion trying to convince others of their position. It is not brainwashing. It is entirely voluntary and far less insidious than other things.

[phoenix_fire]

Stalk, if you can't say something nice...

You do not make an applicable connection. The Bible is hardly an advert. If it was, I would think it would endeavor to be more appealing. It is what it is.

[ghost_stalker]

Quote by: phoenix_fire In short, everyone has something of which they want to convince someone else. There is really nothing wrong with proponents of religion trying to convince others of their position. It is not brainwashing. It is entirely voluntary and far less insidious than other things.

Quote by: phoenix_fire You do not make an applicable connection. The Bible is hardly an advert. If it was, I would think it would endeavor to be more appealing. It is what it is.

As a person who praises your religon, you may think it is a good thing when it is really not. Smokers think smoking is a good thing and it isnt. You are being biased by the use of your religon and fail to see what life is outside of it.