Wrath In Tribulation

[Mindonfire]

Wrath in Tribulation?

Wrath: Function: noun 1 : strong vengeful anger or indignation 2 : retributory punishment for an offense or a crime : divine chastisement synonym see ANGER
Tribulation: Function: noun : distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution; also : a trying experience


There is a myth that has been floating around for quite some time amongst believers that we must now address. This pharisaic myth along with other myths has succeeded in creating an exaggerated sense of self worth and a deluded world view for Christians. The myth states that the tribulation period is not part of God’s wrath. This is a total fallacy which has been concocted by those who would love to keep Christians in the grasp of ignorance and keep the truth of God concealed.

Before we continue let me first reiterate some key points. We must remember that God does not and will not change. His immutability is one of his most noticeable traits (Malachi 3:6 ). If you are trying to ascertain what God will do in the present then you must reference the past. Everything that we are witnessing and will witness in these last days is a representative type of something or someone that has existed in the past (Eccl. 1:9-10
).
Now we must understand that the tribulation of believers during these last days is not new. God’s people have been subjected to periods of tribulation on numerous occasions as a means of punishment and refinement. I know that while your pharisaic teachers were adamant about teaching you all about the love and grace of God they have conveniently forgot to teach you all about his fiery wrath. This has unconsciously duped many of you into believing that you can live and behave however you will without expecting any retribution. Because after all as you all were taught “God is all about love, forgiveness, and grace. He doesn’t get angry anymore, he doesn’t bring storms anymore, He doesn’t destroy cities anymore, and he doesn’t bring tribulation on his people. These have a form of God which denies his power. Well let us then find out if this is all really true. Let us see if the tribulation period is God’s wrath.

If you will search and study the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus you will see that God has set before us moral statutes and commandments which we are to follow (Deut 4:1-40, 6:1-25, 7:11, 10:12-22). If you will continue to study these books you will also see that the obedience and disobedience of these commandments and statutes generate either blessings or penalties (Deut 7:12-26, 28:1-68, Lev. 26: 1-46). Well in case you are not aware of it, the tribulation period is the implementation of the penalties for the disobedience of these statutes and commandments Let us study and see.
In Deut 28:15 you will see that Moses warns the people about the penalties or curses which would overtake them if they disobeyed God’s moral statutes and commandments. Now if you will study verses 29, 33, 53, 55, and 57 you will also see that one of the curses or penalties for this disobedience is distress and oppression by your enemies. Remember now that tribulation means distress or suffering from oppression and persecution or a trying experience. Now ask yourself , who is able to carry out your oppressions and persecutions better than your enemy.

Let us take a look at earlier examples of Israel’s disobedience, God’s subsequent wrath, and the tribulation period which followed. Starting in Judg. 2:10 we see that after the death of Joshua and his generation, the succeeding generation forsook God and provoked him to wrath (Judg. 2:11-13). In his wrath the Lord God delivers Israel into the hands of their enemies who proceed to spoil and distress them (Judg. 2:14-15). In Judg. 3:7 we see another example of Israel’s apostasy, God’s subsequent wrath (Judg. 3:8) and Israel’s deliverance into the hands of their enemies for 8 years. (Judg. 3:8). And Israel again did evil in the sight of God (Judg. 4:1), and God in his anger sells them to their enemies who this time proceed to oppress them 20 yrs (Judg. 4:2-3). And yet again Israel does evil in the sight of the Lord (Judg 6:1), and God in his anger delivers them into the hand of Midian who oppresses them 7yrs (Judg. 6:3-6). And still having not learned anything from their predecessors Israel again did evil in the sight of God (Judg. 10:6), and God in his anger sell them into the hands of the Philistines and the children of Ammon (Judg. 10:7). The children of Israel are vexed and oppressed 18 yrs. And as they have always done in the past, they cry out unto the Lord to save them (Judg. 10:11). Now I want you to pay special attention to the Lord’s response in (Judg. 10:14). This is where God informs us plainly that these periods of oppression, impoverishment, and distress that He has subjected the children of Israel to are their times of tribulation. (Judges 10:14 Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.)

If you are following and paying close attention you will have noticed a recurring pattern that consists of disobedience, God’s anger or wrath, then tribulation. This pattern then tells us that the tribulation is brought on by God’s anger or wrath, and God’s anger or wrath is brought on by Israel’s disobedience or falling away. So the tribulation period is God’s anger or wrath visited upon an ungodly and sinful world. It is his vehicle of judgement for the unbelievers and refinement for the believers.
Finally for those of you who have continually asserted that God’s wrath and tribulation is only reserved for Israel and the “world,” I would advise you to think and study again. (1Peter 4:12) God’s wrath does not discriminate. Whether you claim to be Christian, Muslim or Jewish, his wrath is reserved for any and all who are unrighteous. (Rom. 1:18) Contrary to popular beliefs, your claims and your appellations do not prevent you or excuse you from God’s judgments.

Mans Disobedience + God’s Wrath = Tribulation or Judgement

“The two books are one”

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

[Jack]

What a cheerful little message.
Did you wish to debate this concept or are you just pontificating?

[Athena]

Are we suppose to assume the bible is the word of God and the only possible question is the date of the last days?

Are we to conclude that there is no other explanation for tribulations other than the wrath of God? Or are there other contributing factors such as the population of the earth and how fast it consumes resources and deteriorates the environment? Like what is God using to determine when enough is enough and it is time for him to do thing?

[mr.perfecto]

I think the point was, you can assume whatever you want, but if you want to for a correct opinion about what is going on, you need to get your Bible out and read.

But then again, my reading comprehension skills have been under intense scruitiny recently.

[Starboy]

Quote by: mr.perfecto I think the point was, you can assume whatever you want, but if you want to for a correct opinion about what is going on, you need to get your Bible out and read. But then again, my reading comprehension skills have been under intense scruitiny recently.

I see. And the bible is the "correct opinion about what is going on" because?

Starboy

[mr.perfecto]

God gave it to us to serve that purpose. But believe what you want.

[Starboy]

Quote by: mr.perfecto God gave it to us to serve that purpose. But believe what you want.

So god gave the bible to you personally? Gosh, did you get its autograph?

Starboy

[Athena]

But the bible is not the only source of information and could be seriously wanting. I quote from "The Mayan Factor" by Jose Arguelles.

"When we look at the source of the Armageddon script, the Book of Revelations, we find that it is both unrelentingly righteous, making black and white distinctions between the saved and damned, and at the same time, as visionary a text as can be conceived. Most curiously, however, the number symbolism of the Book of Revelations possesses a profoundly Mayan overtone. The fact that Christ is the thirteenth in a group numbering twelve diciples is paramount. Then there is the incessant emphasis on the number seven repeated in any number of ways as the mystical underpinning of the entire revelation. And finally, there are the 144,000 elect, the exact same number as there are days of kin in the baktun.

Remembering that the baktun is a multi-dimensional harmonic term and that we are currently in the thirteenth cycle, Baktun 12, we may begin to wonder if there is not some deep bond between the Christian Revelation and the Mayan Factor that has been ignored or avoided in the orthodox ruling circles of the neo-Christian West. Could the New Jerusalem, New Heaven, and New Earth, be the same as the entry into the unimagable realm of the new cycle, the post-galactic symchronization following A.D. 2012, Mayan Calander date 13.0.0.0.0?"

Personally, I believe there is a connection between I Ching, the Mayan calander, Christian last days, pyramid of Gisa, tarot, astrology, and I feel much anger about the destruction of ancient documents done by Christians. It would be nice to give up this anger, but Christians continually stir it with their focus on the bible and intentional ignorance of everything else. (note: the word ignor is part of the word ignorance. Ignorance is to ignor something)

Especially when it comes to Revelations and Armageddon, and international relationships that could set off a nuclear holocaust, I wish they expand their sources of information.
God did not destroy ancient libraries around the world, Christians did, and I fear religious fanatics with their limited understanding of God and Allah, can destroy life on earth.

[Irene]

staryboy, yes or no question for you. Do you believe in ghosts?

[mr.perfecto]

Of course. I would provide a testimony for you here, but you seem too hostile to be receptive. Plus I don't want to spread my personal history all around the forum. So you just have to take my word for it, or don't. Doesn't amount to much either way.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: Athena But the bible is not the only source of information and could be seriously wanting. I quote from "The Mayan Factor" by Jose Arguelles.

Sounds like a good read, I hope they have a copy at the library.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Irene staryboy, yes or no question for you. Do you believe in ghosts?

Do you mean, are there sprits that roam the earth either bugging or scaring the shit out of people? Let me tell you a ghost story.

Some time ago when I was married and my family was young we bought a house. The house had been on the market for some time. It was a distressed property. Apparently no one wanted to buy it. It was said to be haunted. Now of course our real estate agent didn't tell us about that and we were not exactly connected to the local community at the time and the house was only three years old so we didn't suspect a thing. Close to closing our agent did give us some history of the family and the house. The family that owned the house before us had been through several tragedies so bad that any one of them would have done in most families. Before the previous owners lived in the house we bought, they lived in a large home suitable for a family with two teenage boys and one teenage girl. From what I understand the father was a very successful city government civil servant and the mother was well known in the area for interior design. Their children were bright and did well in school. They could not have been happier. Then one day one of the boys died in a terrible accident. Drove into one of the many drainage ditches beside the road at high speed. There was no air bag in this vehicle. The son died. The family was devastated. But they tried to get past it. Then a year later the second son also died in a terrible auto accident. The father started drinking. The family was despondent. The father started gambling. He gambled away a great deal of their nest egg. Eventually they got help. The father straitened up. They decided to rebuild their lives and move to a new home. The home I now live in. Well they lived there for a few months and the father again took to drink and gambling. He spent all the families’ savings. Mortgaged everything up to the hilt and started embezzling money from the city. He was in deep and getting in deeper every month. The city found out about the embezzling and he decided to end his life. He shot himself in the early afternoon in my living room through the head. The police dug the bullet out of the floor under my couch. The hole is still there. The wife came home to see her husband dead on the sofa. Well there was no insurance and they were already recovering from the husband’s previous debts and of course the embezzling comes out and she discovers that the money is gone and everything is mortgaged up to the hilt. Needless to say she could not stay there. So the house goes on the market during one of the deepest real estate busts in the last thirty years. It sits on the market for almost two years. The bank is just getting ready to foreclose and this newlywed physics graduate student couple comes along and snaps it up for a song.

So anyway within the first three months there my now ex-wife tells me that she has seen ghosts in the house. Soon my kids are saying the same thing. I ask them to tell me what they saw. They describe an apparition that travels through walls and doors and moves through the house. They are freaked. She decides that this is a good time to tell me that there is someone else and leaves. We get divorced. My kids still stay with me during the summers and still claim to see strange things in the house, especially the living room.

Now I am not so happy about the turn of events but I am intrigued by the haunting. I try to see it myself. But to no avail. If there is something there then I will investigate it. Try to figure out what it is. It has been twenty years and nothing, bupkis. Not a dang thing. I would have liked there to be something. It would have been great, but alas, nothing.

So there is my experience with ghosts. As far as I can tell they are real phenomena that can be found in the overactive imaginations of people. So to answer your question, there are ghosts but they are not spirits that roam the earth.

Starboy

[Athena]

Quote by: mr.perfecto Sounds like a good read, I hope they have a copy at the library.

You might try second hand book stores. It has been on the market for years, but I don't think many can understand it, so it would not sell well. If you find it and can understand it, please explain it to me. I am a math idiot, but if the concept is correct, the whole Tribluation thing could become more of a reality than most expect. I think the diseases threatening us and the tsumi and hurricanes, etc. are the tribulation manifestation.

I also think we have been in the Resurrection, but my understanding of this is different. I think archeology, geologist and related sciences are manifesting the Resurrection and that it is our purpose at this time to learn all we can by paying attention to their discoveries.

I also think we need to study eastern philosophies and quantum physics, because if we are going to have much more of future, the consciousness will necessarily be very different from what it is today.

[Irene]

there are ghosts but they are not spirits that roam the earth.

You still didn't answer yes or no. I thought that maybe if you had belived there are ghosts, I would have a good arguement, then why wouldn't you believe there was God. I noticed that every post about religion or God, you seem to chime in negatively. If your so convinced that it's all a bunch of fairy tales, then why do you waste your time reading and replying on these topics?

[Starboy]

Quote by: Irene You still didn't answer yes or no.

It was not a yes or no answer. You want me to lie like supernaturalists?

I noticed that every post about religion or God, you seem to chime in negatively. If your so convinced that it's all a bunch of fairy tales, then why do you waste your time reading and replying on these topics?

The country as a whole and many of the posters on Volconvo are in sore need of an education. They live in a demon haunted world. I do what I can.

Starboy

[Irene]

They live in a demon haunted world

Is this just a play on words or do you believe demons exist.? If you believe demons exist, why not angels. Demons are real, same as angels, same as God. And as to ghosts, I think their evil. But you didn't answer Yes or No, so does that mean you don't know or aren't sure?

[Starboy]

Quote by: Irene Is this just a play on words or do you believe demons exist.? If you believe demons exist, why not angels. Demons are real, same as angels, same as God. And as to ghosts, I think their evil. But you didn't answer Yes or No, so does that mean you don't know or aren't sure?

There is the phenomena and then there is the explanation. You have an experience and explain it as a demon, I experience the same thing and explain it naturally. Just so happens that in this day and age natural explanations work a whole lot better at accounting for phenomena. Supernaturalism is preferred by ignorant and stupid people who for what ever reason never made the effort or had the ability to understand reality in any other way.

Starboy

[Starboy]

Quote by: Sgnt.Gorilla hah, cant wait until you meet a ghost, all your natural explanation crap will go right out the door, trust me.

Didn't you read the story. I want to meet a ghost. Not sure the gost will get the better part of the bargain. You see there are people that do no run away in terror from what they don't understand.

Starboy

[Athena]

Quote by: Irene Is this just a play on words or do you believe demons exist.? If you believe demons exist, why not angels. Demons are real, same as angels, same as God. And as to ghosts, I think their evil. But you didn't answer Yes or No, so does that mean you don't know or aren't sure?

I honestly believe Starboy is too much of a materialist to believe in non material supernatural beings. The real question, is there are reality other than manifested material reality? If so what is it, and what are the laws the determine how this other reality operates.

I believe their is an arguement for consciousness being other than material reality, but there are so many things about manifest reality and our relationships to discuss, that I don't think I want to spend much time discussing a non material reality. This bites, because the Mayan Factor is a material reality, but not one we are familiar with. I am not sure if it can be tested. My stupid mind is not cooperating with my need to understand math, so I have to stop at "I don't know". I think Starboy thinks he knows there is no reality other than material reality. He and I sure a desire to end superstitious thinking.

[Starboy]

[quote=Sgnt.Gorilla]

Quote by: Starboy Didn't you read the story. I want to meet a ghost. Not sure the gost will get the better part of the bargain. your very naive if you believe that. You see there are people that do no run away in terror from what they don't understand. Starboy yeah ok brave guy, come back and tell me how you handled it after it happens not before.

Did you read the story?

Starboy