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Samildanach · Sep 30, 2005, 09:03 am

I was sitting at my pc typing away trying to do as little work as possible when I thought what actually makes people religious? I have always rationalised it away before as maybe the result of instability or being conditioned by parents early on in life or even just the thought of being alone could probably make some people become religious so they have the fantasy that they aren't really. I would like to know why YOU are religious and believe in God....oh and please don't give me the bible for a reason....in my opinion thats just a book...if thats the best you can do then you might as well be a Pastafarian.

Give us a bit of background...parents religious...friends religious...don't like the thought of being alone?

In short I want to know ....for Gods sake why? (pun intended)

Starboy · Sep 30, 2005, 09:54 am

Quote:

Quote by: Samildanach

...if thats the best you can do then you might as well be a Pastafarian.

Hey! Whats wrong with pasta?

Starboy

Samildanach · Sep 30, 2005, 10:02 am

Nothing...I eat a lot of it due to my dutiful worship of he whose name should not be spoken...the fsm
Of course its difficult to live and sleep in the pirate uniform but you know what they say, better safe than sorry. :)

Flip Jackson · Sep 30, 2005, 11:16 pm

Why not? I'll bite. Not much else to do right now.

For me, my parents were always religious, so that's how I was raised. Obviously I was kind of conditioned to see things from a religious viewpoint. But I was by no means brainwashed as many religionists seem to be. I have always been someone who wondered about stuff. I have been curious to know why people act the way they do, why things work the way they do, and why I do what I do.

I have always had religious friends, but I have also had a number of great non-religious friends, so that is kind of a non-issue for me. I would have friends one way or the other. Lonliness isn't a factor either. I tend to keep to myself, and have been lonely often, but I don'tr turn to religion to help that. And I have often been lonely even with religion, so lonliness has no effect on my belief.

When I was 15 or 16, I started to wonder why I did a lot of the things I did. How could I really know of a God or His principles? I started paying attention to more of the thinghs I did and the results. What started to convince me was this; when I lived the principles my church taught, I recieved the promised results. It was kind of startling. Could this just be cause and effect that could happen without religion. I suppose, but it doesn't seem that way.

I am kind of anal retentive by nature, and I try to live by my personal (not religious) morals very strictly. It just so happens that my morals coincide with that of my faith's. This is another evidence to me, especially when I see the positive results of these moral actions. You could argue that my morals were implanted by the religion. Maybe, but I have seen no faults in my morals. And my reason tells me that it makes more sense for our situation to be the way it is because it was led by deity, instead of purely natural circumstance.

Also, one lady in my church pointed out that even if the church wasn't true, it would still be the best organization on the earth because of its principles. The way it takes care of people, member or non-member, is amazing. It is a worldwide church run entirely by volunteers. No leaders are paid. They do it becuase they feel it is right. Everything the church encourages is in line with helping people be happy.

Finally, there is one other point that I can't really explain. No matter how much I think about it, I can't convince myself that God doesan't exist. There is something that kind one whispers inside me, "you have no reason to disbelieve God. You have seen the evidence everywhere, even if you can't explain it to other people." No I never actually heard a voice tell me that, but it is a thought I have had. Kind of like intuition. Intuition is often correct, but you can't explain it. You don't know where the intuition comes from, or why it hits so strongly. Religion is like that for me. There is a feeling that I can't shake that I some how know there is diety, but can't explain why.

Starboy · Oct 1, 2005, 11:05 am

Flip, you are very similar to most god believers. They believe in god because they have an image of how god ought to be rather than what god is described to be. It is that internal image of their perfect god that they love. Their internal god says more about them then it does about the god of any religion. God is in some sense an archetype. When they look in the mirror they are looking at what they want to change to be more like the god inside them. However you can skip the god, see the man and still imagine the man as you would like him to be. It is not as if perfection is an absolute. Perfection always begs the question, 'Perfect for what?'

Starboy

Athena · Oct 1, 2005, 12:27 pm

I am not religious, but I am passionate about God, morals and virtues, so may be what I have to say about this fits this thread. I agree with Starboy, only I think our desired God is the God.

Why am I passionate about God, morals and virtues? Well, I was born with mind that asks questions and demands answers. I love philosophy and quest for knowldege and sharing this challenge with others, gives me a sense of purpose. It is my idea of heaven because it is so pleasurable. I just must have a sense of purpose, because life can real suck if we don't have a sense of purpose, and when we do have a sense of purpose, we are energized with of sense of high morale. I think this is the benefit of liberal democracy. We are not subjects, but independent authorities on what is right and wrong. We are not slaves to the state, and should not be slaves to employers. Autocracy is the oposite of democracy and too many employers are autocrats and the enemy of democracy.

Whoo, I am not sure how to express my thoughts and remain on subject, because it is also a political thing, as we manifest our own reality. How we manifest it, depends on our world view. God, morals and virtues are essentail to democracy. I feel sad every time I realize this is not understood. This is not just about me, but my children and grandchildren. I would give my life for them to understand and enjoy a liberal democracy.
That Jesus died for us, does not impress me, because it is only natural to give our lives to what we love. I said "what" we love. I love my grandchildren of course, but also liberal democracy. I would give my life for liberal democracy. Does that answer the question?

One more thought, I think both Jesus and Socrates gave their lives for the same thing.

LetThereBe · Oct 2, 2005, 09:54 pm

I was raised as a Christian. More specifically, I was raised as a Lutheran. When I became old enough to actually understand some spiritual concepts and understand the Bible, I realized there were many internal conflicts within my own denomination. If Lutheran's claim the Bible as absolute truth, yet hold doctrines incompatible with the Bible, clearly it is a false religion. Hence, I have denounced Lutheranism, but I have not yet done so with Christianity.

Religion for me has never been something personal, and that is what I desperately need. Like Athena, it has been a type of quest for me. I have been driven primarily by terror, that life might be purposeless and there is no higher good. My religious experience has only been cold and analytical, and I have in no way abated any loneliness, so I don't see any possibility of that being a factor.

Also, I do not just set up in my mind a God that I would like. As I have said, my Christianity must be compatible with its book. The God of the Bible is truly terrifying. While he is loving and merciful people forget about his cold, uncompromising justice, and his flawless purity. As the creator, I acknowledge that He has every right to do to His creation as he wishes. If it was His pleasure to destroy (as certain Biblical verses indicate) than that would violate no justice. This is not how I would want God to look. The God I would imagine would be the soft God of most Christians. He would create no "objects of wrath". Unfortunately, I am too honest to say the Bible is true and God is always pleasant. The two ideas are contradictory.

I believe in three things with utter confidence though. Absolute truth exists, it is not relative. The truth can be knowable. There is a higher power/good/purpose.

Sep 30, 2005, 09:03 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Questions for the religious. I was sitting at my pc typing away trying to do as little work as possible when I thought what actually makes people religious? I have always rationalised it away before as maybe the result of instability or being conditioned by parents early on in life or even just the thought of being alone could probably make some people become religious so they have the fantasy that they aren't really. I would like to know why YOU are religious and believe in God....oh and please don't give me the bible for a reason....in my opinion thats just a book...if thats the best you can do then you might as well be a Pastafarian. Give us a bit of background...parents religious...friends religious...don't like the thought of being alone? In short I want to know ....for Gods sake why? (pun intended) I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Sep 30, 2005, 10:02 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Nothing...I eat a lot of it due to my dutiful worship of he whose name should not be spoken...the fsm Of course its difficult to live and sleep in the pirate uniform but you know what they say, better safe than sorry. :) I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Oct 1, 2005, 12:27 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Athena Volcanic Erupter Location: Oregon Posts: 5,172	I am not religious, but I am passionate about God, morals and virtues, so may be what I have to say about this fits this thread. I agree with Starboy, only I think our desired God is the God. Why am I passionate about God, morals and virtues? Well, I was born with mind that asks questions and demands answers. I love philosophy and quest for knowldege and sharing this challenge with others, gives me a sense of purpose. It is my idea of heaven because it is so pleasurable. I just must have a sense of purpose, because life can real suck if we don't have a sense of purpose, and when we do have a sense of purpose, we are energized with of sense of high morale. I think this is the benefit of liberal democracy. We are not subjects, but independent authorities on what is right and wrong. We are not slaves to the state, and should not be slaves to employers. Autocracy is the oposite of democracy and too many employers are autocrats and the enemy of democracy. Whoo, I am not sure how to express my thoughts and remain on subject, because it is also a political thing, as we manifest our own reality. How we manifest it, depends on our world view. God, morals and virtues are essentail to democracy. I feel sad every time I realize this is not understood. This is not just about me, but my children and grandchildren. I would give my life for them to understand and enjoy a liberal democracy. That Jesus died for us, does not impress me, because it is only natural to give our lives to what we love. I said "what" we love. I love my grandchildren of course, but also liberal democracy. I would give my life for liberal democracy. Does that answer the question? One more thought, I think both Jesus and Socrates gave their lives for the same thing. Last edited by Athena; Oct 1, 2005 at 12:39 pm.

Sep 30, 2005, 11:16 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Flip Jackson The Professor Location: Owasso, OK Posts: 648	Why not? I'll bite. Not much else to do right now. For me, my parents were always religious, so that's how I was raised. Obviously I was kind of conditioned to see things from a religious viewpoint. But I was by no means brainwashed as many religionists seem to be. I have always been someone who wondered about stuff. I have been curious to know why people act the way they do, why things work the way they do, and why I do what I do. I have always had religious friends, but I have also had a number of great non-religious friends, so that is kind of a non-issue for me. I would have friends one way or the other. Lonliness isn't a factor either. I tend to keep to myself, and have been lonely often, but I don'tr turn to religion to help that. And I have often been lonely even with religion, so lonliness has no effect on my belief. When I was 15 or 16, I started to wonder why I did a lot of the things I did. How could I really know of a God or His principles? I started paying attention to more of the thinghs I did and the results. What started to convince me was this; when I lived the principles my church taught, I recieved the promised results. It was kind of startling. Could this just be cause and effect that could happen without religion. I suppose, but it doesn't seem that way. I am kind of anal retentive by nature, and I try to live by my personal (not religious) morals very strictly. It just so happens that my morals coincide with that of my faith's. This is another evidence to me, especially when I see the positive results of these moral actions. You could argue that my morals were implanted by the religion. Maybe, but I have seen no faults in my morals. And my reason tells me that it makes more sense for our situation to be the way it is because it was led by deity, instead of purely natural circumstance. Also, one lady in my church pointed out that even if the church wasn't true, it would still be the best organization on the earth because of its principles. The way it takes care of people, member or non-member, is amazing. It is a worldwide church run entirely by volunteers. No leaders are paid. They do it becuase they feel it is right. Everything the church encourages is in line with helping people be happy. Finally, there is one other point that I can't really explain. No matter how much I think about it, I can't convince myself that God doesan't exist. There is something that kind one whispers inside me, "you have no reason to disbelieve God. You have seen the evidence everywhere, even if you can't explain it to other people." No I never actually heard a voice tell me that, but it is a thought I have had. Kind of like intuition. Intuition is often correct, but you can't explain it. You don't know where the intuition comes from, or why it hits so strongly. Religion is like that for me. There is a feeling that I can't shake that I some how know there is diety, but can't explain why.

Oct 1, 2005, 11:05 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	Flip, you are very similar to most god believers. They believe in god because they have an image of how god ought to be rather than what god is described to be. It is that internal image of their perfect god that they love. Their internal god says more about them then it does about the god of any religion. God is in some sense an archetype. When they look in the mirror they are looking at what they want to change to be more like the god inside them. However you can skip the god, see the man and still imagine the man as you would like him to be. It is not as if perfection is an absolute. Perfection always begs the question, 'Perfect for what?' Starboy

Oct 2, 2005, 09:54 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
LetThereBe Always Seeking Location: Ohio Posts: 720	I was raised as a Christian. More specifically, I was raised as a Lutheran. When I became old enough to actually understand some spiritual concepts and understand the Bible, I realized there were many internal conflicts within my own denomination. If Lutheran's claim the Bible as absolute truth, yet hold doctrines incompatible with the Bible, clearly it is a false religion. Hence, I have denounced Lutheranism, but I have not yet done so with Christianity. Religion for me has never been something personal, and that is what I desperately need. Like Athena, it has been a type of quest for me. I have been driven primarily by terror, that life might be purposeless and there is no higher good. My religious experience has only been cold and analytical, and I have in no way abated any loneliness, so I don't see any possibility of that being a factor. Also, I do not just set up in my mind a God that I would like. As I have said, my Christianity must be compatible with its book. The God of the Bible is truly terrifying. While he is loving and merciful people forget about his cold, uncompromising justice, and his flawless purity. As the creator, I acknowledge that He has every right to do to His creation as he wishes. If it was His pleasure to destroy (as certain Biblical verses indicate) than that would violate no justice. This is not how I would want God to look. The God I would imagine would be the soft God of most Christians. He would create no "objects of wrath". Unfortunately, I am too honest to say the Bible is true and God is always pleasant. The two ideas are contradictory. I believe in three things with utter confidence though. Absolute truth exists, it is not relative. The truth can be knowable. There is a higher power/good/purpose.