Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Autolykos In other words, things turned to rot when the Church became co-opted by the State. The beginnings of that process can be traced back to the Roman emperor Constantine, who made Christianity Rome's official religion in the 4th century AD. Politics is like a real-life version of The Matrix's Agent Smith -- everything it touches turns into a reflection of itself. - Rob

Rob, The CHURCH "co-opted" the STATE. As Rome was drying, so was the church. Pagan barbarians were raiding. The only "empire" (as tiny as it was) was that of Charlemagne, around 780 C.E. The Franks had beaten off the Muslims to the South, made treaties with the Normans to the North, and fended off the Goths to the East. Seeing this strength in an empire, and seeing an opportunity to expand their religion, the Pope crowned Charlemagne Holy Roman Emperor. Charlemagne, given lots of money from the church, along with lots of territory to expand his empire, in turn made churches and made Christianity the official religion.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: RickSp Sarcasm is indeed too subtle for some. Ah, well.

Lately, people have said things at that sarcastic level and have had full meaning to it.

[xyzer]

I agree with Dirty Name!

The concept of religion itself is good. Most religions have good values and beliefs.

I haven't seen the study so I don't know what the sample was..critical as it is.
Lets use Islamic Nations as an example. Highly religious..yes and their Koran supersedes the government! Crime at a minimum..yes! Why? Because the sanctions for crimes are severe...cutting off the hansds of pickpockets. Beating women to death for sex outside marriage is sanctioned. Conclusion" Highly religious countries with low crime rates!!! How about that?

Religions attempt to temper behavior by stating accepted moral values. In the west religions have no severe sanctions for those who stray. The law takes care of most of that. So how can anyone reach the conclusion that there is more clap and syph in the US than some other less religious countries because we are more religious?
Is this a grade school study?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: xyzer I agree with Dirty Name! I haven't seen the study so I don't know what the sample was..critical as it is. Lets use Islamic Nations as an example. Highly religious..yes and their Koran supersedes the government! Crime at a minimum..yes! Why? Because the sanctions for crimes are severe...cutting off the hansds of pickpockets. Beating women to death for sex outside marriage is sanctioned. Conclusion" Highly religious countries with low crime rates!!! How about that? Religions attempt to temper behavior by stating accepted moral values. In the west religions have no severe sanctions for those who stray. The law takes care of most of that. So how can anyone reach the conclusion that there is more clap and syph in the US than some other less religious countries because we are more religious? Is this a grade school study?

So in order to lower the crime rates, all we need to do is abandon all human rights barriers we've created for ourselves over the past 200 years! Yes! We did it!

[xyzer]

So in order to lower the crime rates, all we need to do is abandon all human rights barriers we've created for ourselves over the past 200 years

If thats your take so be it! I dont recall even implying that?

My take would be that religion proposes morality but in few cases(Islam excepted) can't really sanction those who commit immoral acts. It's the laws of the country that shape behavior... so in order to reduce crime increase legal sanctions! If you want to reduce the incidence of clap make it a crime to give clap

Human rights has nothing to do with the incidence of crime , unless you use it as an excuse? That usually comes when the perpetrator gets caught and claims he is being mistreated somewhere in the process..

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: xyzer If thats your take so be it! I dont recall even implying that? My take would be that religion proposes morality but in few cases(Islam excepted) can't really sanction those who commit immoral acts. It's the laws of the country that shape behavior... so in order to reduce crime increase legal sanctions! If you want to reduce the incidence of clap make it a crime to give clap Human rights has nothing to do with the incidence of crime , unless you use it as an excuse? That usually comes when the perpetrator gets caught and claims he is being mistreated somewhere in the process..

"Because the sanctions for crimes are severe...cutting off the hansds of pickpockets. Beating women to death for sex outside marriage is sanctioned. Conclusion" Highly religious countries with low crime rates!!!"

Do you really think level of punishment matters? If you are going to commit a crime, 99% of the time you are almost positive you will not get caught. Assuming this, what does it matter what the punishment is if you get caught? HIgher punishments will make things worse. Humans are corrupt and will always be corrupt. We are human and we are never going to be perfect, as long as we have emotions. I'd like to see the crime rates of these countries that they do these things in and ask you to tell me how low they are.

If you are arrested in a country, and they feel its their moral obligation to burn you alive to wash out the sin in you, then would you say they are going against human rights? Or would that be just an excuse?

[Samildanach]

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest, in fact its almost completely obvious if you live outside of the states. The USA is looked on as the most dysfunctional place on the planet (alongside the loonies in the middle east of course) by most of the rest of the civilised world. Having been to a good deal of it I think I can make that statement with some confidence.
The fact is if somebody makes up some rules that are against human nature, they are going to be broken. The fact that the religious also believe the rules makes them feel guilty when they break them which puts them under stress. At some stage there is such a build up of stress from breaking rules that the relgious snap, pull out shotguns and feel the urge to become homicidal at which stage they kill everybody including themselves creating what is known as American culture.
Moral of the story, don't put your flock under pressure.

[belverron]

Quote by: xyzer I agree with Dirty Name!

We're shocked, xyzer. Shocked.