thinking about death

[brien]

Fours years ago I was told I had two years, at most, to live. I thought about my death, quite alot at that time. Then I decided that I would do my best to cheat the grim reaper as long as I could do it. Now I don't waste my time thinking about my death, or anyone else's death. I have too much living to do, and it only distracts me from enjoying what little time I do have that remains. Most of us will not be able to predict our demise, and probably won't even notice it. So, the more time devoted to the ultimate mystery, is less time devoted to what is here now and real for the moment. To do anything less, is a waste of my limited and valuable time. I will have an eternity to answer the ultimate mystery, why rush it?

[Athena]

Quote by: brien Fours years ago I was told I had two years, at most, to live. I thought about my death, quite alot at that time. Then I decided that I would do my best to cheat the grim reaper as long as I could do it. Now I don't waste my time thinking about my death, or anyone else's death. I have too much living to do, and it only distracts me from enjoying what little time I do have that remains. Most of us will not be able to predict our demise, and probably won't even notice it. So, the more time devoted to the ultimate mystery, is less time devoted to what is here now and real for the moment. To do anything less, is a waste of my limited and valuable time. I will have an eternity to answer the ultimate mystery, why rush it?

I really like your comment. For sure the doctors aren't always right, and you are not the only person to live past the medical profession's guess. I had forgotten this. It is really the pits when someone gives away everything and prepares to die and doesn't! Not that living is a bad thing, but giving away everything, can become a problem. I need to keep this in mind when discussing the subject with others. Thanks.

[Athena]

Quote by: samsara15 I can relate to reincarnation, as long as we dump the assumption that concsiousness is eternal and never stops, so that maybe we could live again in some future universe...but not continually...after all, most of us remember nothing before birth, and those of us who claim to remember anything before birth are dubious sources, from what I have read about them... I sure don't want to live forever, am currently 64 and think 75 would be long enough, but intend to enjoy life until it ends, without forcing myself to live a puritanical, ascetic lifestyle not enjoyable to me.

My goodness the Webster dictionary puts a very unpleasant meaning on the word "ascetic". I wish the meaning also included the joyfulness I experience as I simplify my life and open myself to spiritual consciousness. I think hedonism is a good way to go. That is pursuing that which makes one the happiest. When I was quite young, I determined chasing after happiness from one party, or lust fulfilling experience after another was the surest way to be miserable. Temporary pleasures are temporary. On the other hand the study of philosophy and to understand the human condition, has been quite fulfilling.

[Jack]

Welcome to Volconvo, brien.
In light of your post, however, perhaps I should be chasing you out so you won't waste your precious time with us scoundrels. But then that's true for all of us, isn't it? Then, I'll just welcome you. Have fun.
:)

[The Thinker]

The fact is when the grim reaper visits you you will leave your body. I think the fear of death is because its an area none of us been to yet and came back to tell us about it. Even the Christians don't have much telling from the Savior Jesus, when he came back he just gives them peace of mind. As long as we are in this physical world we will be operated by it and whats beyond is down right spooky.

[Logjam]

Quote by: brien Fours years ago I was told I had two years, at most, to live. I thought about my death, quite alot at that time. Then I decided that I would do my best to cheat the grim reaper as long as I could do it. Now I don't waste my time thinking about my death, or anyone else's death. I have too much living to do, and it only distracts me from enjoying what little time I do have that remains. Most of us will not be able to predict our demise, and probably won't even notice it. So, the more time devoted to the ultimate mystery, is less time devoted to what is here now and real for the moment. To do anything less, is a waste of my limited and valuable time. I will have an eternity to answer the ultimate mystery, why rush it?

Well put.

I have heard that folks who get the bad news (as you have) that those remaining years become the best in their lives. Why? For the reason that you have outlined. These people understand that they only have so much time left and it's their responsibility to themselves to enjoy the time that they have.

Other people are in the same boat. They just don't realize it. Even healthy people are going to eventually die, and some may die soon, maybe as victims of a car wreck.

So, it behoves us, the so called healthy, to follow your lead and do all that we can to enjoy our lives as much as we can, and live for the moment (not that prior planning is all bad).

Thank you for your post and I hope that you live a long and happy life.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Isherwood Welcome to Volconvo, brien. In light of your post, however, perhaps I should be chasing you out so you won't waste your precious time with us scoundrels. But then that's true for all of us, isn't it? Then, I'll just welcome you. Have fun. :)

People who post here, so do because it is fun.

[Logjam]

Quote by: The Thinker . As long as we are in this physical world we will be operated by it and whats beyond is down right spooky.

Why does death have to be spooky? It might be a dreamless sleep? Not spooky at all. One might find one in a place where one gets to meet all of the great people who have ever lived. Again, not spooky. [Does anyone recognize The Apology here?]

Death might just be a piece of cake. After all lots of people have done it, and so will we all. It's best not to fret, but to enjoy life while we have it and then accept death when it comes.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Logjam Why does death have to be spooky? It might be a dreamless sleep?.

To me "Death" is sleepless dream on the contrary. This is because, some persons have related their past birth's incidents or their near death experiences like a dream only. The after death period is bound to be sleepless since, there is no physical body or brain which need rest as during live state.

[/quote]
It's best not to fret, but to enjoy life while we have it and then accept death when it comes.[/quote]

Very true, one should enjoy life till one lives. But cannot accept death since, he never dies for himself. One would be always remain dead for others. Nobody ever would see his own death himself. To my mind, he goes into a state of dream with his sense of existence in tact. This is so because, person's who have become alive after their physical death, say after one hour of death; have related their experience of life during that period as a dream only. Therefore, without any doubt in my mind what so ever, after death we behave exactly like in dream, but without a physical body lying in bed as in usual dream in living state.

One more point, a persons mentality does not change with death. If during life he is enjoying his existence, he would continue enjoying his existence even after death. But any body is worrying type, he would remain so even after death. Since, one's inner nature does change so easily. But continous practice, it is possible to change somewhat.

My ealier post no. 7 on this thread may be reffered for clarification. Questios are welcome!!

[brien]

Quote by: Athena I really like your comment. For sure the doctors aren't always right, and you are not the only person to live past the medical profession's guess. I had forgotten this. It is really the pits when someone gives away everything and prepares to die and doesn't! Not that living is a bad thing, but giving away everything, can become a problem. I need to keep this in mind when discussing the subject with others. Thanks.

Yes. When Dr Death first predicted my demise I didn't even want to buy a new toothbrush, never mind a new pair of trousers or a new shirt. It was downright stupid of me to think this way but it is a normal reaction to some very distressing news. After the initial shock of my life, I then made up my mind to fight. Bought a lot of new clothes and even went back to drinking wine.

I think it most important to live one's life daily. To get caught up in thinking one will live to be 85 or 95 is nonsense. Most survivors of Prostate Cancer usually pass away from something other than the cancer itself. But in my case, they said probably not. My goal was not to think about it on a daily baisis. I wanted to live my life free from the constraints of worry trying to predict my own demise. This type of thinking is crazy, and will drive one crazy. Afterall, I could die later today in some freak accident so what good does it do to try and predict death. As I wrote before, when it comes, you probably won't even notice it.

As for what is beyond, this is life's most interesting question but unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, it can't be answered until one crosses the line of no return. The greatest question, even maybe the greatest paradox in life, wouldn't you say? Don't waste your time, it will come soon enough. btw, living is great. I can't find the time to do everything I want so I have to make important choices everyday to separate the b.s. from what is real and meaningful to me. Keeps me focused, so to speak. :>)

[brien]

Quote by: Logjam Well put. I have heard that folks who get the bad news (as you have) that those remaining years become the best in their lives. Why? For the reason that you have outlined. These people understand that they only have so much time left and it's their responsibility to themselves to enjoy the time that they have. Other people are in the same boat. They just don't realize it. Even healthy people are going to eventually die, and some may die soon, maybe as victims of a car wreck. So, it behoves us, the so called healthy, to follow your lead and do all that we can to enjoy our lives as much as we can, and live for the moment (not that prior planning is all bad). Thank you for your post and I hope that you live a long and happy life.

Thank you very much for your kind words. I understand only the good die young, if 54 is young. If that is the case, I should be around for a while. The next year will tell the tale. I am off all therapies, out sailing the ocean of health with no drag. The wind is at my back and full sails are unfurled. All of the medical majesties say after 5 years, chances increase dramatically of survival. Well I'll just have to wait and see to plan my next move. Planning is a good thing but I think five year plans, and the like, are silly and immature. It is good to have goals, and plans to get there, as long as one understands life is fluid, in motion, and constantly changing so we have to adapt our plans daily to meet the ever changing situations in our lives.

Thanks again for your kindness.

[brien]

Quote by: Logjam People who post here, so do because it is fun.

When I don't have fun, I give it one more try. If it still isn't fun, I disappear and begin looking for more fun somewhere else.

[brien]

Quote by: Athena Can we expand this subject of death? They have identified the body found in the river. He was a regular at the low income alchohol and drug rehabilitation, and the people who worked there are grieving his passing, although they knew it was coming soon. Some addicts have spent every night of lives at this rehab place for years, and he was one of them. Please, do not judge, because you honestly do not know these people and want brought them here, and those who do know them well, love them despite all their human imperfections. These are the people who staff the rehab center, and when their clients are rolled and beaten up, or treated badly by the police, they hurt for their clients. The story of the man found in the river is like the story of Job. He had all the forms of hepitis, and other health problems. By age 50 his close to death. It is not known if he took his own life or if he was rolled for the money in his pocket. He had told a concerned worker he would be going sooner then expected. She knew how bad his health was. But this is not the first rehab client to be found in the river. So far it isn't known how he could have gotten to this spot on the river because he had no transportation and couldn't walk that far. It is known their are people who prey on these vulnerable people. Their reality isn't a beauty one. What matters is that although he had serious social problems and was gruff and diseased, and many, including Springfeild police could not tolerate him, there were others who loved him and cared about him, and now cry in grief. Caring about this man, and grieving because his bed is now empty, may not make sense to many. I just want people to know, he is missed and people are grieving. Meaning of life? I don't know. I just know sometimes our lives come together and it hurts when they are torn apart. I know people can care about people who many would see as total social rejects, and we don't have to be smart or rich or beautiful for others to care about us and our passing. If humans can be this accepting and caring of others, don't you think a God would be as loving? That is if there is one? We don't need to be worshipped to care this much about another, we just do because that is how we are.

In the "Wizard of Oz" when the Wizard is handing out the gifts from the black bag he hands the Tin Man a clock in the shape of a heart. He proceeds to explain to the Tin Man that "life is not judged by how many people you love, but rather by how many people love you."

This theme also permeates through the story of "It's a Wonderful Life." George Bailey's friends eventually come to rescue him from his financial ruin and he learns how many people actually love him in this life. Thank you Clarence.

1939 was a great year for these kind of films. I thought it appropriate here.

[phoenix_fire]

When I die, I want to go out fighting. Not trying to kill anyone, mind you. I want to live for what I believe in and die for what I believe in.

That's kinda the crux. People are often able to say that they would die for what they believe. Not many are willing to live for it.

Live well. And when you get to death, face it head-on. Don't live life waiting for the end. Meet the end like you met life: in strength.

[brien]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 When I think of death I get very scared. I don't understand why religious people (if they aren't "faking it") are even afraid of death. They are always promised some eternal heaven or afterlife where everything is perfect. As an atheist, I know the truth is that my body will disintegrate and my brain will shut down, no longer able to function with the world. Will I be sad? No. I'll be dead. But up to that point, I'll be very depressed that I cannot live forever. If I had one wish in the world that would be it. To see what happens next, forever. Some say you would get tired of it, but I know for a fact I would not. Or otherwise I wouldn't be so afraid of dying. It's such an interesting concept, that of life and death and all the feelings humans can relate to on the subject.

I don't understand why you let what is essential in life as birth, get you so afraid. I say birth because without it there is no death, unless of course you believe life begins at conception. But for this argument, I suppose that is irrelevant.

As for living forever, are you familiar with "The Picture of Dorian Gray."? I suggest the film because it tackles exactly what you fear.

On the practicality side, look closely at someone who is 100 years old. Check the quality of life. Even the best centurians require daily help from others. We slowly lose our dignity and the quality of life erodes to a point that you wish to leave your used up body. Watch the movie "The Green Mile" or read the book by Stephen King. It just may change your fear of death. Then take the time you worry over your own demise, and redirect it into positive energy. Look at it tis way, it can't be any worse than the billions of years that pre-dated your birth, can it ? Sounds as if you would have rather not been born at all, but one must remember that being born is a one way ticket to death. It is what you do along the way that makes you who you really are in this life. Some are contributors in making the world a better place before they leave it. Others, are better at destruction.
We all make the choices, and live with the consequences.

[grandpa]

I'm not too afraid of death. Sure, every once in a while the thought of it sends a shiver up my spine, but almost every even remotely emotional topic can do that.

Grandpa h.

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: randall patrick For me however it never goes down that deep into the heights of philosophical despair. It is a rather simple psychological transaction. I have found things in this world that [for whatever reason] I have come to love and to cherish---music, film, books, photography, philosophy etc.. And death will take these intimate relationships away for eternity and that horrifies me. But increasingly I bump into things [I either know of or experience] that cause pain and suffering. And death will also takes them away for eternity. It is simply an existential [meaning intensely personal] balance that tilts back and forth from day to day. Beyond that I see no point in dwelling on it. Only in distracting myself from it instead. And that is what I do. Though not now, of course rp

That's the funny thing about life, you have to take the good with the bad. Your life is what you make of it...sorry for the clichés but they hold great meaning. Death is something everyone will face at some point in their life. Why focus on it? How can you truely be living if you are thinking about the past and the future all of the time? It's the present that matters. That should be your focus. Things which cause pain and suffering should be looked upon as learning experiences. You might not understand why something is happening to you or a loved one, but what doesn't kill you will only make you stronger...another cliché. Also, thoughts of death and suicide are signs of depression. You might want to see you family doctor and tell him/her of these thoughts, if this is the case. Do not take this lightly.

[Athena]

Lots of really good comments made in this thread!

Kuldeep's statement that we don't miraclously change after death, seems so obvious to me. We have some very funny stories about this. Mark Twain wrote one. It is going to be a real shock to some religious people to wake up in heaven and find people there that they didn't expect to find in their heaven. People who are prejudice on earth, will have same problem sharing heaven as they do sharing earth. This is why I stress the importance of enlightenment over being saved by Jesus. That miracle of being fit for heaven, just ain't going to happen, and if it did, that would mean heaven is the loss of free will.

But also, I hope the miracle of change happens to me before I die, through my efforts to be enlightened and to be gain wisdom. I am a worrier! Leaving my family on earth while I move on, is going to be huge problem for me, if I do not change my nature. I just pray, it is easier to see the bigger picture when cross over, so I don't fret so much over things that worry me now.

PS, me thinks this subject is bring out the best in people.
Many years ago, I began preparing for death by trying to learn all I can before I die. I am so far from where I want to be, that I am afraid I will not accept death as gracefully as I would like. On the other hand, I was born with a defective body, and I am ready to trade it for a new one. I just need to be more secure in those things Kuldeep is saying and my ability to give up worrying!!!

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Nono At the same time, say I'm rich and privileged (in India, to take a classic example) and you're dirt poor. And I say to you "Well, I'm the way I am because I was virtuous in a previous life. You're the way you are because you weren't." Being a good devout Hindu, you'll let me continue to rule over you. Convenient, eh? Reincarnation? Why not? I have absolutely no idea. But since I know that wishful thinking can play tricks on you, I do my best to be objective.

Reincarnation is there as proved by number of living examples. You have absolutely no idea! This is for good. Imagine what would happen if all start having clear idea of past lives. Death, I am equating to head injury and rebirth to plasic surgery to the the soul of the old body, which had preashed over the years after that head injury (death). Thus neither you remeber previous events and nobody recognises you in next birth.

Coming to your wishful thinking playing tricks, you are not doing right thing by teasing me. This you can not deny to your inner self. You may be able to fool all others, but not to youself. Nothing can be hidden from your ownself. What you accepted in mind, you have done, has to bear reaction fruit. It may be in your present life or future lives. Your wishful thinking is a tool by which you can decieve others, but not your own self. :confused:

In India you are worried about misuse by way of wishful thinking. How would you explain why you were born to rich parents and me to poor one???? I would love your western explanation.! I know like others, you would explain "Probabilty Concept". I say probability can not be irrationally fixed by fare nature. Please say some other rational explanation as to why some are born to rich parents to enjoy without efforts while; some to beggars to suffer for no fault of theirs!!!!!!!!!!! :(

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Athena Lots of really good comments made in this thread! People who are prejudice on earth, will have same problem sharing heaven as they do sharing earth. This is why I stress the importance of enlightenment over being saved by Jesus. That miracle of being fit for heaven, just ain't going to happen, and if it did, that would mean heaven is the loss of free will.

Not Zero percent doubt in my mind for that!!! I can write it infinite times, but alas! I do not have a scientific proof to prove it to ignorant masses. No miracle is going to happen after you die. You would remain, nature wise particularly, abolutely same. The only thing which would change would be your capacity of moving about beacause you are free from the binding of body. Exactly the same way when you fly in an areroplane you need not bother to walk, or hire bus or turn at the curves of the roads. My dear, believe me, you would move with the speed of thought. The other effect of bodyless self is, your vision to events of past lives would be clearer. The same way as you come out of room and get access to outside view. The sum total of the events (important ones) attract you to move on to the destination you fix. The attention on those events comes out of your own wish!!! Nature is so funny, it is giving you absolute freedom, no bindings like provided by society on earth. I am sorry, I am not sure whether my explanation is clear!!!

But also, I hope the miracle of change happens to me before I die, through my efforts to be enlightened and to be gain wisdom. I am a worrier! Leaving my family on earth while I move on, is going to be huge problem for me, if I do not change my nature. I just pray, it is easier to see the bigger picture when cross over, so I don't fret so much over things that worry me now.

I can well understand your problem! Well, I can see your wish to change yourself is so firm that miracle has already taken place in your life i.e. before your physical death. The miracle is our mental contact, which took place due to this forum. You are fortunate to read my mind which I am putting in this post for members in general, but for you in particular.
Terming your family as yours is the biggest ignorance. You have to understand the way you nicely lived and enjoyed after the death of your parents or mentors, same way your family members would enjoy as per their capabilities. What is important is good health that you can bless them and pray for yourself as well.They are yours and you theirs. This is a teporary phase, which is the real realization. Even apparently from societal point of view, is also a fact.


PS, me thinks this subject is bring out the best in people.

Many years ago, I began preparing for death by trying to learn all I can before I die. I am so far from where I want to be, that I am afraid I will not accept death as gracefully as I would like. On the other hand, I was born with a defective body, and I am ready to trade it for a new one. I just need to be more secure in those things Kuldeep is saying and my ability to give up worrying!!!

Your first two and half sentences are the repetition of my father's words, who towards his last two years asked me to teach the preparation for death. I salute you for repeating it dutoo!!!!! I am repeating my lesson which was given to him, for your sake as follows:

I said all the years, right from my childhood he taught me "one does not really die but changes body like clothes. How come he has become ignorant presently? It might old age effect. He was that time 88 years old. I said we are afraid of death becausewe we see others dying. Nobody has seen his own death. In fact, we die for others not for himself. Practical example is when somebody goes out of house, He is dead for remaing in the house, while he continues to live on outside. Similarly, everyday we die in the evening and get again born in the morning. Dream is another near situation after death. This is about how death look like! Now coming to preparation. First, fit in your mind what is said above and confirm to your inner self that it is cent percent correct. Second, nobody till now, has remained here permanently so make doubly sure that one day you have also to leave the body here only. So try your level best to live a detached life. Detached life does not mean physical detachment but mental one. There would be no change in physical actions or dealings but your mind should cofirm to yourself that in the long run nobody is yours. You are your own and none else. Whatever you think you should ultimately get, automatically your mind would start meditating on it 24 hrs. You would definitely get it since efforts are unquestioned false!!!!!!! :)

Your information about your defective body made me sad. But then body is only a cover, the main stuff is inside which I am seeing is verymuch positive and demanding. I guarntee not only your wish would be fulfilled but of everybody who so ever can wish nicely.