Is Nietszche Advocating Suicide in this Quote?

[Disinterested]

One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. (Friedrich Nietzsche).

[Boetie]

Not in the literal sense. Philosophy is the father of science. Science does not wish to acknowledge philosophy as it's father and philosophy does not want to acknowledge science as its son.

Rather than be put to death by science an embarrassing way to go, philosophy committed suicide and proud of it too.

[Disinterested]

I have little to no idea of what you're talking about. How about this quote from Albert Camus:

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide.

[Boetie]

Can there be a suicide uncontaminated by reasons of deficits(illness, shame, etc) unmotivated by negatives of depression or even paradoxically by fear or death? In short an entirely "virgin" suicide?

[Athena]

Quote by: Disinterested One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. (Friedrich Nietzsche).

The statement does not speak of intentional suicide. He could have had suicide in mind, but it is not mentioned in the quote.

I think it is important to come to peace with the lives and death, because I have experienced intimately caring for those with a varity of physical and mental problems.
I spend Wednesday early afternoon with a women who is loosing her hearing and vision, and will will not be able to communicate with people in the near future. She is questioning the meaning of her life in such a condition.

Later in the day, I am with a 37 year old man dying off ALS. He has lost the use of his arms, and can't feed himself or do any of the bathroom things without help. He can't even turn over a night, and is dependent on people 24 hours a day for any movement, except some movement of his legs which allows him to hit an emergancy bottom. In time he will loose the ability to swallow and then the ability to breath. Living with dignity is a challenge for him.

Then there are those with Alzhiemer's disease. Another disease that requires great courage and can stripe us as any sense of meaning or dignity. There are many diseases that strip our lives of meaning and dignity, and I pray when my time comes, I have the courage and can maintain my dignity, and die gracefully.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Disinterested One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. (Friedrich Nietzsche).

I don't think the message in this case completely advocates suicide, yet advocates the meaning taken in such an action. If you can't live proudly for the rest of your life, he's saying why live? Why stay alive without being proud. That is a key motivation in life.I think he's highlighting how important that is and that no one should be able to live proudly since no one wants suicide. "Should" could almost be changed to "will" in this case, warning everyone what will happen when you take someone's ability to be proud of himself, or by simply taking his rights.

[rez]

Proud in whose eyes?

If the Middle East is not considered the most dominate area in the nation then the people living in those countries can not be proud of themselves. So instead of sucking it up they try to make future Arabs proud by blowing themselves up along with innocent people.

Of course if this quote does not infringe on the rights of others, then there is no problem. however, one can take a tip from my above statement. Why not share your genes and hope that your offspring becomes a proud memeber of society?

[dev]

Quote by: Disinterested One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. (Friedrich Nietzsche).

no.

[Disinterested]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 I don't think the message in this case completely advocates suicide, yet advocates the meaning taken in such an action. If you can't live proudly for the rest of your life, he's saying why live? Why stay alive without being proud. That is a key motivation in life.I think he's highlighting how important that is and that no one should be able to live proudly since no one wants suicide. "Should" could almost be changed to "will" in this case, warning everyone what will happen when you take someone's ability to be proud of himself, or by simply taking his rights.

So if you feel as though you can no longer live proudly, should you die?

[Disinterested]

Quote by: rez Proud in whose eyes? If the Middle East is not considered the most dominate area in the nation then the people living in those countries can not be proud of themselves. So instead of sucking it up they try to make future Arabs proud by blowing themselves up along with innocent people. Of course if this quote does not infringe on the rights of others, then there is no problem. however, one can take a tip from my above statement. Why not share your genes and hope that your offspring becomes a proud memeber of society?

Holy non-sequitur, Batman! How you bring the Middle East into discussing Nietszche is worthy of Noam Chomsky himself!

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Disinterested So if you feel as though you can no longer live proudly, should you die?

Your life has no meaning to yourself and others, all pride is extinguished. I say go for it if you really want to. I don't care if people kill themselves. Might sound harsh, but those are the people who are so mentally weak I don't want to spend the rest of my life teaching them how to handle a break up or a job loss.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Might sound harsh, but those are the people who are so mentally weak I don't want to spend the rest of my life teaching them how to handle a break up or a job loss.

Man, your compassion for your fellow humans is overwhelming. Speaking as one who was hospitalised for a major depressive episode, I would like to say I'm glad you take the time to think through your position. I mean, if I had known that my problem was a lack of mental toughness, I...
Wait, everyday I told myself if I just wasn't a weak idiot, I would be able to deal with life and would just brush everything aside and go on. Every day, I told myself if I kept thinking about killing myself, it meant I deserved to die because only weak, stupid people think that way. That thought process made me more and more miserable and more and more suicidal. You know, the downward spiral of the self-fulfilling prophsey. You are a moron who has no understanding of the actual mechanics of depression. That, by the way, was almost 20 years ago and no one had to spend the rest of their lives teaching me to handle break-up or job loss. I was in therapy for about 2 or 3 years, figured out that my problem was that I was trying to live my life according to the dictates of morons like you. Once I accepted that it wasn't the end of the world that i was in fact a lesbian and that perfection and untouchable mentally stability were not requirements of human existance, I found that I could live a happy and productive life. So kiss my ass with your mental toughness bullshit.

Everyone else, sorry for the anger and lack of self control.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Your just angry because you were depressed and I wasn't. Sorry but you are mentally weak. It makes me mad how humans take for granted everything their life and existence has to offer. When they are angry, they get suicidal because they want to prove something to someone else, and the only way to make a message is death by oneself. We, as thinking humans, should be able to understand that we have been lucky enough to experience thought and happiness. I could really care less about suicides unless the suicide was brought onto them and they had no choices in their life to prevent such a depression.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Your just angry because you were depressed and I wasn't. Sorry but you are mentally weak. It makes me mad how humans take for granted everything their life and existence has to offer

God, yet again you have me pegged. I'm really jealous of your stability. How could I not have seen that...

Wait, let me examine my anger. Could it be that really, I think that you are the worst kind of dangerous? Could it be that I feel compassion for others who suffer, while you wrap yourself in some stupid, useless ideal of mental stregnth that is really only blunderbuss and rationalisation that covers your lack of empathy and allows you to be ok with an idea that is socially damaging?

I think the second might be it...

[SoccerfreakAB2]

I think I don't let human emotion run my life like you do. That way when I get fired, dumped, cheated on, etc. I don't break down and cry about how my life sucks and try to actually end my own life so others feel bad for me. Pathetic.

[belverron]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 When they are angry, they get suicidal because they want to prove something to someone else, and the only way to make a message is death by oneself.

When I had suicidal thoughts, it certainly wasn't because I wanted to prove anything to anyone. I just wanted it all to end. For instance, I didn't want to prove anything to my mother: she and my other loved ones were the reason I couldn't consider it more seriously.

Having depression is not an indication of weakness: succumbing to it is. Overcoming it is a sign of strength.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

In a sense, I agree. I understand that it is a disorder for too much hormones or emotions or something to reach the brain and make one feel depressed. I am only arguing the ones that do not have a disorder, and are perfectly capable of making all the decisions in their life (so not a young individual with a bad upbringing).

[Athena]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Man, your compassion for your fellow humans is overwhelming. Speaking as one who was hospitalised for a major depressive episode, I would like to say I'm glad you take the time to think through your position. I mean, if I had known that my problem was a lack of mental toughness, I... Wait, everyday I told myself if I just wasn't a weak idiot, I would be able to deal with life and would just brush everything aside and go on. Every day, I told myself if I kept thinking about killing myself, it meant I deserved to die because only weak, stupid people think that way. That thought process made me more and more miserable and more and more suicidal. You know, the downward spiral of the self-fulfilling prophsey. You are a moron who has no understanding of the actual mechanics of depression. That, by the way, was almost 20 years ago and no one had to spend the rest of their lives teaching me to handle break-up or job loss. I was in therapy for about 2 or 3 years, figured out that my problem was that I was trying to live my life according to the dictates of morons like you. Once I accepted that it wasn't the end of the world that i was in fact a lesbian and that perfection and untouchable mentally stability were not requirements of human existance, I found that I could live a happy and productive life. So kiss my ass with your mental toughness bullshit. Everyone else, sorry for the anger and lack of self control.

I spoke with a man who counsels suicidal people, and asked him if his job wasn't very depressing. He assured me it is not. He explained people who think of killing themselves love life. In fact theylove life or some aspect of life so much, they are willing to die for it. Jesus said we only have to die to have life.

We all live with many erronous ideas, and the man who counsels suicidal would help people realize how to get that which they loved so much they would die for it. As soon as people realize how to get what they want so much, they go about getting it, making his job a really great job to have.

Another way to think of suicide is going to Hades. We all need to go to Hades from time to time to get a sense of meaning. People who don't are shallow people. Obviously some pretty shallow people post in these forums, and that is not a compliment. The problem with going to Hades is the likelihood of getting lost. Being lost in Hades is to be depressed and suffer worse degrees of mental dis- order or dis- ease. People should never enter Hades without the help of the Gods. That is concepts (Gods), developed ways of looking at life and handling problems that get us through difficult times. I much rather converse with those who have been to Hades, then those who have not.

[Athena]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Your just angry because you were depressed and I wasn't. Sorry but you are mentally weak. It makes me mad how humans take for granted everything their life and existence has to offer. When they are angry, they get suicidal because they want to prove something to someone else, and the only way to make a message is death by oneself. We, as thinking humans, should be able to understand that we have been lucky enough to experience thought and happiness. I could really care less about suicides unless the suicide was brought onto them and they had no choices in their life to prevent such a depression.

You read like my 16 year old grandson, and that is not a compliment.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Athena You read like my 16 year old grandson, and that is not a compliment.

Hmm...Does your 16 year old grandson say things like this:

"So kiss my ass with your mental toughness bullshit."

How can you expect me not to retort in the same manner? One does not understand how lucky we are to live! If you are a lesbian, be one! Maybe I don't "understand" depression because I haven't felt it. Or maybe my points are exactly the reason why I haven't felt it yet...

Reread how we are so lucky to be alive and living and thinking and capable of living happy lives. The question yourself how you could have ever thought of ending it? What motive do you have of ending your life? Indeed, as a philosopher myself, I question everything. I mean everything. I think all the time, and a lot I think what if I killed myself? People would grieve, even change. I think that is the only motivation to suicide. That you will go to heaven to look down upon those who are changing. Well, since I'm atheist, I don't believe in heaven, maybe that's why I never considered suicide...

There are people all around the world who would kill to have a life of someone in the United States. Ending your life would be simple arrogance if you ask me. Harsh? Probably to some. Truthful and reasonable? Without question.