Is Nietszche Advocating Suicide in this Quote?

[Livemike]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Man, your compassion for your fellow humans is overwhelming. Speaking as one who was hospitalised for a major depressive episode, I would like to say I'm glad you take the time to think through your position. I mean, if I had known that my problem was a lack of mental toughness, I... Wait, everyday I told myself if I just wasn't a weak idiot, I would be able to deal with life and would just brush everything aside and go on. Every day, I told myself if I kept thinking about killing myself, it meant I deserved to die because only weak, stupid people think that way. That thought process made me more and more miserable and more and more suicidal. You know, the downward spiral of the self-fulfilling prophsey. You are a moron who has no understanding of the actual mechanics of depression. That, by the way, was almost 20 years ago and no one had to spend the rest of their lives teaching me to handle break-up or job loss. I was in therapy for about 2 or 3 years, figured out that my problem was that I was trying to live my life according to the dictates of morons like you. Once I accepted that it wasn't the end of the world that i was in fact a lesbian and that perfection and untouchable mentally stability were not requirements of human existance, I found that I could live a happy and productive life. So kiss my ass with your mental toughness bullshit. Everyone else, sorry for the anger and lack of self control.

Getting back to the original point somewhat, you _were_ able to live proudly and you were "mentally tough" enough to face the truth. Your problem was that you took some time to implement that. It took you 2 or 3 years to figure out that you shouldn't live your life according to other people's dictates. Quite frankly that's a long time for a pretty obvious conclusion, but at least you got there in the end. If you had been unable to "live proudly" or face the truth then I think it would have been good for you to die. Think about it, which would be preferable, the state you lived in for 3 years lasting for 50 years until you die or ending it? I think you'll see that the latter would be preferable. The problem depressives have is that they don't see a third option. They don't judge the probabilities of positive outcomes rationally. That doesn't affect the original point because it talks about being unable to live proudly not thinking you can't.

[Livemike]

Quote by: Athena Well, I don't put a lot of value on happiness because I think of it as frivilous. It has little to do with duty, meaning and purpose. Soldiers must stand their post regaurdless of how happy or unhappy they are. That is what courage and honor about. I see nothing noble in doing what one does for his/her own happiness, but noble is what we do for others.

If you're doing something "for others" then you're doing it for their happiness. If it's worthwhile to do it for their happiness why not for your's? Are you the only valueless person on the earth? I don't know what you mean by saying that happiness is "frivolous". Is the joy of bringing up a child "frivolous"? How about the pleasure of building a buisness that makes good products that people want? Or the joy of learning something new that interests you, even if you don't believe knowing it will help you or others? Why is it you describe your own interests as frivolous but not that of others? If it's noble to do something for others isn't the easiest form of nobility to refuse help from others so that they may persue their own interests? By your logic it's "noble" to mend a neighbour's fence, while he repairs his neighbour's car, while she is resealing your roof, but if each of you mend's your own property that's somehow worthless. I don't get it.

Quote by: Athena The man living with ALS who has lost the use of his arms and needs assistance 24 hours a day, and in time will loose the ability to swallow and breath, is inspiring to be around.

Yeah it sounds like a real hoot.

Quote by: Athena The women who are going deaf and blind are inspiring to be around. All these people are living with courage and dignity, however, they have questioned their worth or the value of life in their condition. It is my job see the best in them and reflect it back to them. Our sense of value isn't about how happy we are, but what we give. By living with courage and dignity we give inspiration to others. By accepting help graciously we give others the chance to feel good about themselves as caring people.

So your happy because these people continuing to suffer and be humiliated by their helplessness makes you "feel good about [yourself] [a] caring [person].". But you aren't a caring person if that's what you need to feel good. If what would make these people happiest is death then a caring person would want that for them. I would certainly want that for myself.

Quote by: Athena However, after caring for my grandmothers while alzhiemers destroyed her mind, and caring for my mother while ALS destroyed her body, I have made it clear to everyone that I would rather end my life than be a burden on others. I am torn. I admire the courage and dignity of those who are not taking their lives, and question the rightness of taking my own life when my time comes.

Why do you admire their courage and dignity when it does nobody any good. If dying would make them happier then they should. The fact that the people that "help" them wouldn't feel as good is neither here nor there. You are not obliged to live merely because dying would upset people, any more than you are obliged to be straight to avoid distressing your mother by coming out.

Quote by: Athena I think it will depend on those around me. Will they want to end my life or to hang in as long as possible? Which takes the most courage is the best example to others?

The fact that a course of action takes the most "courage" doesn't neccesarily make it right. Suffering is not a justification but that which needs to be justified to be rightly suffered. If in doubt suffering is wrong.

[Livemike]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 If you are so torn how can you attempt to defend your position on the subject? Just because one experiences death, or a loss of a loved one, due to what the subject is about, does not also mean that they are "wise" in the subject. For example, a 23 year old girl at my work has three kids, two have one father, one has another. She has a separate boyfriend. She now claims to know what she's doing in her life and acts like a 40 year old woman because she has "gone through so much." If she wasn't so dumb so consistently, she wouldn't have been there. In fact, I probably have a better take on teen marraige and teen child bearing than she does. One can learn from his or her mistakes, yet we rarely do it. So you would rather end your life than have your family be courageous like everyone else you so desperately desire? What if they try and stop you from dying, saying they are doing the right thing and are being courageous and want to see you live. I would be livid with my family if they did that. That's not courage. That's love. Love makes us do amazing and yet very stupid things. Like keep friends and family members alive just so we can watch them die slowly, even though they probably aren't enjoying life one bit. If they want to live their lives, by 24 hour caring included, let them. But not wanting to die is not courageous, it's fear. Fear that you know you can die any time you want, yet you are scared to go because you don't know what's beyond life. You want time to think. Well time won't help that. I would be happy to relieve anyone of having to live such a dreadful life, being afraid to move on out of living. In fact, the opposite, not being afraid of dying, is the only courage I see on the subject.

I don't think love is the thing that makes you stop people from doing what suits them and do what suits you instead.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Livemike Getting back to the original point somewhat, you _were_ able to live proudly and you were "mentally tough" enough to face the truth. Your problem was that you took some time to implement that. It took you 2 or 3 years to figure out that you shouldn't live your life according to other people's dictates. Quite frankly that's a long time for a pretty obvious conclusion, but at least you got there in the end. If you had been unable to "live proudly" or face the truth then I think it would have been good for you to die. Think about it, which would be preferable, the state you lived in for 3 years lasting for 50 years until you die or ending it? I think you'll see that the latter would be preferable. The problem depressives have is that they don't see a third option. They don't judge the probabilities of positive outcomes rationally. That doesn't affect the original point because it talks about being unable to live proudly not thinking you can't.

Atheists technically should be 50 times more afraid of death than theists. Theists always think they have a perfect place to go. As much as I try, I could never accept something that I didn't believe in though. But that's why I fear dying. Not very relative, but thought I should add that.