God and the law

[deedee]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 For the record, he never insulted you personally, he insulted Christians as whole. I can say Christians are morons all I want, as long as I provide proper supporting evidence to my opinion. Get it?

Whatever clears your conscious....besides...why don't you let him speak for himself? Are you his counselor?

[deedee]

Quote by: Starboy The bible doesn't mention anything about the trinity. But hey maybe I am wrong. Care to quote it? Oh and while you are at it find a single reference where Jesus says in his own words that he is god. Starboy

Yeah. When I get home I will look up my references in my little study.

[Sean]

Actually he is right deedee, the user did not specifically call you a moron. I do not approve of such childish labels (calling christians morons), but it is not specifically aimed at you. He did not call you a moron. Insults like that are not allowed here.

[Athena]

Quote by: deedee Yeah. When I get home I will look up my references in my little study.

The concept of the trinity is important to the subject of God and the law. It would be best to study Pythagoras and the power of 3. This concept is important to the trinity of US government, excutive, legislative, judicial. The trinity is not in the bible, but for those who held a concept of the trinity, they could find hints of the trinity in the bible, and so it became part of Christianity and as now debated. The concept of trinity is complex and predates the bible.

"The Buddhist faith developed two doctrines of a trinitarian nature: The earlier was Teacher, Law, and Brotherhood; that was the presentation made by Gautama Siddhartha. The later idea, developing among the northern branch of the followers of Buddha, embraced Supreme Lord, Holy Spirit, and Incarnate Savior.

And these ideas of the Hindus and Buddhists were real trinitarian postulates, that is, the idea of a threefold manifestation of a monotheistic God. A true trinity conception is not just a grouping together of three separate gods.

The Hebrews knew about the Trinity from the Kenite traditions of the days of Melchizedek, but their monotheistic zeal for the one God, Yahweh, so eclipsed all such teachings that by the time of Jesus' appearance the Elohim doctrine had been practically eradicated from Jewish theology. The Hebrew mind could not reconcile the trinitarian concept with the monotheistic belief in the One Lord, the God of Israel."

If you google "concept of the trinity" you can get to the following site that is partial quoted above.

PAPER 104 - GROWTH OF THE TRINITY CONCEPT The Trinity concept of revealed religion must not be confused with the triad ... This earliest Trinity concept was lost to the world in the unsettled times ...
www.urantia.org/papers/paper104.html - 29k - Sep 25, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

[deedee]

Quote by: Sean Actually he is right deedee, the user did not specifically call you a moron. I do not approve of such childish labels (calling christians morons), but it is not specifically aimed at you. He did not call you a moron. Insults like that are not allowed here.

Good. Well I took it as a personal attack. I will trust you, Sean....I'm still feeling my way around here. I'm glad you don't allow this to happen.

[Athena]

Quote by: deedee by the way.....can we call other members, 'morons'? Does that go against rules in this forum? Please let me know, so that I can retort in like manner.

Dee Dee I don't like name calling, but it does seem important to some of us that Christians learn more than the bible. I am as guilty as any in not saying things tactfully.
I use words like ignorant and illiterate, because I can not think of a better way to explain the fact that Christians too often know nothing about the bible. This wasn't a problem until laterly, when education for technology left the masses even more ignorant than they were when most people dropped in the 8th grade and went to work. Now the problem is a serious political one, involving wars and serious economic problems, and a National Gaurd being misused for a war and not at home when disaster hits. We just can not allow the Christian Right to continue running the US, as Germany was run. And oh yes, there are important parallels between Hitler's New World Order and Bush's New World Order. You see Christianity is not just a belief in a God, but also Satan and the occult.

[Starboy]

Quote by: deedee Yeah. When I get home I will look up my references in my little study.

Please do that. Educate yourself. But do yourself a favor. Do not look to the source you are trying to verify for verification of the source. That is circular reasoning and goes nowhere. You must look at other sources. If you want a better view you must examine accounts not only from advocates but from detractors. Otherwise do not bother. Just join the other Christian robots and chime away about your "truth".

Starboy

[DTB123]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 For the record, he never insulted you personally, he insulted Christians as whole. I can say Christians are morons all I want, as long as I provide proper supporting evidence to my opinion. Get it?

Well, there are some professing Christians, who are indeed "morons;" but, if they are "morons;" they will not also be Christians. :eek:

[DTB123]

IMHO; I don't know why one should be offended - even if they really were called "moron," or some such thing. The term "moron" has been used here to characterize Christians, as a whole, not any one individual of this forum. It is actually, in most cases, the fault of Christians that this kind of perception exists about them. I saw that someone in a previous post mentioned one - Pat Robertson as an example of a Christian; but I would not be so careless to call him that. I believe others in this thread have already captioned the label that is a better fit for such a man. :(

[DTB123]

Quote by: Athena I use words like ignorant and illiterate, because I can not think of a better way to explain the fact that Christians too often know nothing about the bible.

Athena; you make some really good points. I enjoy reading your posts, and your thoughts on religion. I would be interested to here you comment more in regards to your first post where you stated that "God rules from whim." Or words to that effect. i know you did use the word whim. it would interest me to hear why you, or others see it this way. :)

[Jack]

For what it's worth:

According to psychologists of the past, a moron was a person with a cognitive disability having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years according to the Binet intelligence tests. Such a person generally had communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term, coined by HH Goddard in 1910, belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

Source
Ignorant is a valid term to use for those who are not aware of something. Though often used in a pejorative way, it actually is nothing more than the lack of knowledge of something.
But I too am interested in more 5th grade insults. Building your vocabulary is a good thing. And you never know when you'll want to give some smart-ass 5th grader a good dressing down.

[Sonart]

Quote by: DTB123 I would be interested to here you comment more in regards to your first post where you stated that "God rules from whim." Or words to that effect. i know you did use the word whim. it would interest me to hear why you, or others see it this way.

Not to jump into someone elses conversation, but it seems pretty obvious. "God moves in mysterious ways" is just another way of saying "Sh!t Happens!"

Example: Uncle Bob is sick. We pray for Uncle Bob, Uncle Bob recovers... Hooraaay! God has answered our prayers.

Uncle Bob is sick. We pray for Uncle Bob, but alas, Uncle Bob passes away... oh well, God must have other plans for Uncle Bob.

All bases covered.

Another Example: A horrible plane crash, but Praise Jesus!, a quarter of the passengers survive! Two survivors go before the news cameras and tell the world that they prayed to Jesus and he answered their prayers and saved them! Halelujah!!

Which begs the question: did the other 100 passengers who perished simply not pray HARD enough, or were they unworthy in some way and God simply ignored them?

Or does God simply rule by whim?

.

[Athena]

Quote by: DTB123 Athena; you make some really good points. I enjoy reading your posts, and your thoughts on religion. I would be interested to here you comment more in regards to your first post where you stated that "God rules from whim." Or words to that effect. i know you did use the word whim. it would interest me to hear why you, or others see it this way. :)

The God of Araham as all other gods and kings rule by whim. You know, as the kings of England did. Some today, especially Christians who think the Disney movie Lion King was a good movie, long for the ideal king ruler who takes care of them and leaves them with nothing to do, but be thankful to the good God/King. They rule by whim, because whatever they think the laws should be, that is the law. The God of old testament gave Hebrews some pretty strange commandments. For example, why favor the sacrifice of animals over the gift of fruits? Why would a God want burnt offerings? Please, think science and what rule by reason means.

Math and science brought Athens to democracy. Then again, math and science lead to the US being a democracy. We are not going to win God's favor by giving him burnt offerings, but need to understand the sciences. Get it? Like will this years hurricane season change Bush's position on global warming, or is he going to go on the belief that God is punishing the US? God of reason or God of whim?

[Starboy]

Of course Athena. Christianity is the religion of a slave society. Hardly appropriate for a country that prides itself for its rule of man by men by law not given by god but by men.

Starboy

[deedee]

Quote by: Starboy The bible doesn't mention anything about the trinity. But hey maybe I am wrong. Care to quote it? Oh and while you are at it find a single reference where Jesus says in his own words that he is god. Starboy

The bible does mention the trinity:

Let's start here...........

The Hebrew word for God is Elohim, a plural noun. Elohim is used in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures and the Old Testament refers to the Holy Spirit. For instance, the "Spirit" left Saul when he was trying to kill King David. There are other references to the Holy Spirit throughout the Hebrew Scriptures as well as the Holy Bible.

The Hebrew scriptures and the Old Testament of the Holy Bible refer to the Savior of the World.........fact is, the Christians believe that the Savior has already come. The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah.

Ironic? Coincidental? No. Not so. If you study the Jewish scripture, the Holy Bible and even the Koran, you will find that there is a common denominator. To the Jews and to the Christians, both philosophies believe in a Savior-type. The Muslims believe that Christ was a wise man.

So there it is. One needs to read Hebrew Scripture, the entire Bible and even the Koran to pull out the 'common denominators' from each of the philosophies.

Too many times.....different religions fight about the differences rather than finding the similiarities, the 'common denominators' as such, and then building bridges from there, yet respecting man's free will and desire to choose their own destinies.

Oh and while you are at it find a single reference where Jesus says in his own words that he is god.

Jesus: But whom say ye that I am?

Simon Peter: "Thous art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not reveled it unto thee but my Father in heaven........

[deedee]

Quote by: Starboy Of course Athena. Christianity is the religion of a slave society. Hardly appropriate for a country that prides itself for its rule of man by men by law not given by god but by men. Starboy

Prove it. Prove Christianity is the religion of a slave society.

[Starboy]

deedee, do you even think at all about your religion or do you just believe what you are told? God is the master. God enforces his rule with the offer you can't refuse. No despot ever ruled so frankly. Follow gods rules and you will be happy but do your own thing and you will be punished with the worse torture possible for eternity. Sorry but that is what it means to be a slave. It would be one thing if god took in everyone to heaven but he doesn't. He rules as the classic slave master. He makes da rules. You obey dem and you be a happy slave. You disobeys dem and the massa will be da devil!

Starboy

[Starboy]

Quote by: deedee The bible does mention the trinity:

Deedee, the bible doesn't mention the trinity in one place. Sure if you pick up any peice of literature and simply look for the words for a claim you want to show anywhere within it and then paste them together like a ransom note then you can make it say any dang thing you want. But only desperate people that must show that which is just not there do things like that. Are you a desperate person deedee?

Starboy

[Boetie]

Athena posts The God of Araham as all other gods... rule by whim

The God of Christianity, Islam and Judaism has a flaw in that it acts with purpose. Purpose is necessarily bound up with its means. In the case of a god, it is impossible that there should exist a temporal or material interval between the will and the deed. Human action that is interposed between these two elements is only the vanquishing of obstacles that cannot exist for a god. Of course, the God of the Chrisitans, Jews and Muslims is an imperfection. A real God's will would already be the reality of what he wills. If God had a final purpose, why wouldn't he just bring it about directly, without those useless and retarding intermediate stages; for He does not need the technical means that we, confronted with an autonomous world and possessing only limited strength which must accept compromises, delay and laborious achievement. In other words, God can have no purpose because he employs no means.

I would not say the Christian, Jew and Muslim God rule by a whim, because their God has a purpose, their God is an abortion.

[deedee]

Quote by: Starboy Deedee, the bible doesn't mention the trinity in one place. Sure if you pick up any peice of literature and simply look for the words for a claim you want to show anywhere within it and then paste them together like a ransom note then you can make it say any dang thing you want. But only desperate people that must show that which is just not there do things like that. Are you a desperate person deedee? Starboy

Starboy......you can't pick up a book and read one stinkin' sentence or paragraph to get the full understanding of any book.

Sheesh!

Have you read the bible at least a couple of times?????

How about other ideological holy type books? Have you read any of those?

I have.