Some Islamic Clarification

[SoccerfreakAB2]

I'd like to start off by saying I am not prejudiced. I have no influences in my life to lead me to such conclusions, I just read lots of books on the backgrounds of religion and their effect today and such. People who hate debating religious topics other than Christian ones are weird and should be labeled such. Watch for it in this thread.

I would like to know if the peaceful Muslims who I know and love as friends relate themselves in any way to the Muslims who practice Jihad and anti-semitism. If you do, that is ludacris and I would like you to defend your crazy suicidal beliefs. If you don't, I am curious as to why you or a group of equally thinking Muslims have not spoken out against your fellow religious companions over in the Middle East; you know, the ones who are in control of like 9 Arab countries, preach and demand jihad to children and teens, take the tax dollars and spend them on luxurious palaces, and torture the victims of their crazy laws and especially on foreigners who are not Muslim.

It seems as though the regular Muslims are fine with what the Islam extremists are doing. Can you not condemn these actions somehow. Can you not help the victims in these countries. Both of you contain the same label, and are held to share the same beliefs. Do you hold their beliefs too, and just refuse to openly practice them?

I would also like to know why women need to wear an abaya, or that cloth thing over the face, why women need permission to marry, and why women have hardly any rights anywhere in the Middle East. Do you guys agree with this? Someone has to stop all of this.

In Saudi Arabia, women cannot leave the house without accompany of a male family member and cannot leave the country without permission of a father husband or son. In any Muslim country women don't get schooling and so cannot read or write. They can therefore not teach their children to read or write. No wonder so many of the poorer arabs who cannot afford schools are illiterate. If any of the women violate these religious "laws," they are killed.

Are you kidding me? Can someone defend any of these, or do they disagree and yet somehow still remain to be a Muslim?

[LetThereBe]

I am not Muslim, so perhaps my opinion is void. However, while I think what they do is wrong, I admire them for practicing what they preach. Whatever they are, they are NOT hypocrites.

[Boetie]

All three religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, teaches their follower to commit blasphemy. They all command their followers to bow to a Demiurge, a twisted God that created matter.

They act in the way they do because the main function of the rabbi, priest and mullah is to keep the people in darkness and ignorance as demanded by the demiurge.

[phoenix_fire]

Boetie, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I contend that all your points are inaccurate and/or incorrect and further that you are off topic. Your hate-filled stereotypes are not welcome in intelligent conversation.

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 I would like to know if the peaceful Muslims who I know and love as friends relate themselves in any way to the Muslims who practice Jihad and anti-semitism.

It depends on what you mean by Jihad - in Arabic, that can mean anything from inner struggle to war. Most are against Israel, and by default, anti-semites.

I think that's understandable, to a point. I can't speak for other Muslims, but I was engaged to a Syrian, and he has seen bombs dropped on his beaches (women and children playing) and Israel claimed it was a terrorist training camp.

They see what is being done to the Palestinians, so I'd imagine most are for the war against Israel too, and I'd imagine you would be also if in their place.

Do they relate to terrorists? NO. I have been involved in a Syrian forum for 2 years, and they hold no punches. When I wanted to know what what said in the 'Arabic room', I asked my fiance to tell me to see if they spoke differently in there.

There were more extremists in there, but the people who talked in the English room said the same things in the Arabic room.

The percentage of extremists are tiny.

They hate Israel. They don't care for the US. But they don't advocate violent action - they talk politics like we do.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia It depends on what you mean by Jihad - in Arabic, that can mean anything from inner struggle to war. Most are against Israel, and by default, anti-semites. I think that's understandable, to a point. I can't speak for other Muslims, but I was engaged to a Syrian, and he has seen bombs dropped on his beaches (women and children playing) and Israel claimed it was a terrorist training camp. They see what is being done to the Palestinians, so I'd imagine most are for the war against Israel too, and I'd imagine you would be also if in their place. Do they relate to terrorists? NO. I have been involved in a Syrian forum for 2 years, and they hold no punches. When I wanted to know what what said in the 'Arabic room', I asked my fiance to tell me to see if they spoke differently in there. There were more extremists in there, but the people who talked in the English room said the same things in the Arabic room. The percentage of extremists are tiny. They hate Israel. They don't care for the US. But they don't advocate violent action - they talk politics like we do.

If the percentage of extremists are so tiny, why do people go on buses and blow themselves and other innocent people up every day, why is a massive secret operation to steal planes and crash them into buildings conducted, and why do they kill people if they leave the country or no longer wish to be muslim or break the religious rules?

Yeah, your right. 9/11 was just a sign of them not-caring. I'm trying to distinguish between the extremists and the regulars, but they both call themselves Muslim. Something obviously needs to change about that. Or else terrorism will never end. After all, they are just Muslim and practicing what their faith tells them to do--kill Jews and othe "religious enemies."

A Muslim gir,l in 1998 I think it was, moved to Missouri and enrolled in a high school She went on a date with a black kid without her parents knowing. When she got back from the date, and went into the house, her mom grabbed and held her while her dad stabbed her like 50 times--all in the name of Islam. Something, once again, has to change here.

[Mia]

And out of the BILLIONS of Muslims, yes, this is a TINY %.

Do we have to go into Jim Jones and the OK city bombing and David Koresh and the KKK and all the other examples of Christian extremism, which represents a TINY % to compare and show you it's the same?

You asked a question, I answered, and you're not really respooning to it - just going back to your mantra.

Methinks your question was disingenuous.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Boetie All three religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, teaches their follower to commit blasphemy. They all command their followers to bow to a Demiurge, a twisted God that created matter. They act in the way they do because the main function of the rabbi, priest and mullah is to keep the people in darkness and ignorance as demanded by the demiurge.

I agree. But in the defense of the rabbi, priest, mullah, witchdoctor, witch, warlock, sorcerer, shaman, monk, minister, pastor and so on, they are running a business. A snake oil business and they need to sucker the suckers. All the whole thing shows is that there is sucker born every minute.

Starboy

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia And out of the BILLIONS of Muslims, yes, this is a TINY %. Do we have to go into Jim Jones and the OK city bombing and David Koresh and the KKK and all the other examples of Christian extremism, which represents a TINY % to compare and show you it's the same? You asked a question, I answered, and you're not really respooning to it - just going back to your mantra. Methinks your question was disingenuous.

Actually there's roughly 2 billion christians and 1 billion muslims, not "billions."

Point being, those examples are from like 10 years ago and beyond. Every day the extremists do something, and kill hundreds. Your percentages are screwed up.

[LemonButt]

This is going to sound hackneyed, but here is your answer: liberal media. We don't see Muslims winning Nobel Prizes on television. All you hear about on the news are terrorists which do make up a minute percentage of the Muslim population. The same thing happens with blacks and other minorities in America. These people are already at a disadvantage by being a minority, then the liberal media furthers stereotypes and recognizes these minorities of inferior. When was the last time you saw a Muslim on television doing something good? Have you ever seen it? I cannot recall a time when I saw it (Arafat never did any good IMO). History is not determined by passive majorities, it's determined by angry minorities. Not minorities as in Muslims in the world, but minorities as in extremists in the Islamic religion.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: LemonButt This is going to sound hackneyed, but here is your answer: liberal media. We don't see Muslims winning Nobel Prizes on television. All you hear about on the news are terrorists which do make up a minute percentage of the Muslim population. The same thing happens with blacks and other minorities in America. These people are already at a disadvantage by being a minority, then the liberal media furthers stereotypes and recognizes these minorities of inferior. When was the last time you saw a Muslim on television doing something good? Have you ever seen it? I cannot recall a time when I saw it (Arafat never did any good IMO). History is not determined by passive majorities, it's determined by angry minorities. Not minorities as in Muslims in the world, but minorities as in extremists in the Islamic religion.

I agree with this, but there are plenty of other more problems listed above, with harsher consequences. Focusing on the positives of the minorities will not stop the extremists one bit. They don't want sympathy, they want death.

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Actually there's roughly 2 billion christians and 1 billion muslims, not "billions." Point being, those examples are from like 10 years ago and beyond. Every day the extremists do something, and kill hundreds. Your percentages are screwed up.

Then get real numbers - it's your assertion, not mine. Until you do, stop stating facts not in evidence!

Your question was just designed to start another thread on how the Islamic religion is inherently bad, or at the least that a large number of followers support terrorism.

At least be straightforward, and try backing up your claims. oops - you can't. You had to use this back door because your straightforward thread was relegated to misc., where it belonged.

[Boetie]

starboy posts I agree. But in the defense of the rabbi, priest, mullah, witchdoctor, witch, warlock, sorcerer, shaman, monk, minister, pastor and so on, they are running a business. A snake oil business and they need to sucker the suckers. All the whole thing shows is that there is sucker born every minute.

Why do you think they call their book the "Holy BuyBull"

[RickSp]

I love posts that begin "I'd like to start off by saying I am not prejudiced." Of course not. I guess that is why you felt the need to make the assertion. Oh well.

My guess is that you are speaking hypothetically when you ask "I would like to know if the peaceful Muslims who I know and love as friends relate themselves in any way to the Muslims who practice Jihad and anti-semitism." If not, you could just go ahead and ask them. You might get interesting answers.

As Mia points out, the idea of jihad has multiple meanings. A hatred for Isreal is not overly surprising, nor is a hatred by many for the US, which has occupied and largely destroyed the site of the last Islamic caliphate, Baghdad, as well as killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. It only takes a small number of folks with bombs to kill thousands. Your reference to a "massive secret operation to steal planes and crash them into buildings" is almost funny. There were probably less than 100 people closely involved in what you refer to as a "massive operation."

And as a matter of statistics, the world Islamic population now exceeds 2 billion. And you suggest Mia's percentages are screwed up.

Your comment that Muslims are just practicing "what their faith tells them to do--kill Jews and othe "religious enemies,"" suggests to me that you either are indeed prejudiced or you do not understand much about Islam. It is akin to claiming that Pat Robertson speaks for all Christians when he calls for political assassination or when he predicts hurricanes and earth quakes will be called down by god on the unjust.

So just keep repeating "I am not prejudiced". "I am not prejudiced". Obviously you believe it, even as your posts suggest otherwise.

[tinybear]

World Muslim population: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_islam.html

[Mia]

Quote by: tinybear World Muslim population: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_islam.html

Now give us figures on the % who agree with terrorist action.

[tinybear]

How about figures on the % who have taken the trouble to publicly dnounce terrorism, gender inequality and the injustices and barbarism of sharia law?

[Mia]

Quote by: tinybear How about figures on the % who have taken the trouble to publicly dnounce terrorism, gender inequality and the injustices and barbarism of sharia law?

Go ahead - provide them, please.

[tinybear]

Don't hold your breath waiting. Apparently, such instances are so rare, nobody has even bothered to compile any statistics. Heh!

[Mia]

Oh, no, don't beg off with sarcasm. This is a DEBATE forum, put up or shut up.