Some Islamic Clarification

[tinybear]

Food for thought this: http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina41001.htm

[Mia]

Quote by: tinybear Food for thought this: http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina41001.htm

Another article instead of a real answer. I'm shocked coming from Tiny Bear!
:eek:

[tinybear]

The article might provide the answer. Try reading it.

[RickSp]

Tiny Bear and others rant about Islamic "jihadis" then post this sort of bile:

Islam is an avowed enemy of democracy of freedom of human rights of your constitution of our country and of you. You will not have peace until you fight it and eliminate it.

"Eliminate" 2 billion believers give or take. Makes me wonder who the "jihadis" really are.

Or maybe just reminds me that responding to tiny bear is always a waste of time.

[tinybear]

What do you suggest we do? Surrender?

[Mia]

Quote by: tinybear The article might provide the answer. Try reading it.

I've been studying this topic in depth for over 4 years. With BOOKS, and actual PEOPLE from the region and the faith, and the QURON. I don't need to read other people's articles who may or may not have even studied as much as me, and who likely have an agenda they are pushing on people like you who only read ARTICLES!!!

[Mia]

Quote by: tinybear What do you suggest we do? Surrender?

To what? I don't see an attack going on, except the one on them.

[Matt W]

What do you suggest we do? Surrender?

Rather than listen to you pervert their position? Yup, sounds good to me tb. They're much less irritating than you....

[Mia]

lol...


Matt, does this thread not qualify as being yet another prejudiced one against Muslims? I know the starter is trying to veil it, but he's not doing a good job, IMO.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia I've been studying this topic in depth for over 4 years. With BOOKS, and actual PEOPLE from the region and the faith, and the QURON. I don't need to read other people's articles who may or may not have even studied as much as me, and who likely have an agenda they are pushing on people like you who only read ARTICLES!!!

How do we know what you've studied, where you studied, who you studied with, and if any of the above have subjective influence?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia lol... Matt, does this thread not qualify as being yet another prejudiced one against Muslims? I know the starter is trying to veil it, but he's not doing a good job, IMO.

Wow, I called it. If you read my first post I knew I would come across someone with the emotional capacity of a 4 year old and the inability to debate a completely debatable topic in order to find an answer and perhaps save lives from instances like 9/11. How am I prejudiced if I am friends with Muslims? Even they agree that somehow there needs to be a difference between the extremists and the regular Muslims to make life easier for everyone. They, too, are sick of extremists murdering others in the name of Allah and want something done. Apparently, you're content sitting on your ass watching people die from terrorism, because clearly you show no interest in finding a solution.

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 How am I prejudiced if I am friends with Muslims?

That's the oldest line in the book....'some of my best friends are black' and you're the only one acting childish and being insulting.

You've not presented anything debateable - you started off with a question, it was answered, and you went on to your real agenda of attacking the Islamic faith!

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 In any Muslim country women don't get schooling and so cannot read or write.

Please list all Muslim countries and provide documentation that none of them let girls go to school.

You want to debate? Let's go. Facts and figures and BACK-UP, not just your ideas.

[RickSp]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 How am I prejudiced if I am friends with Muslims? Even they agree that somehow there needs to be a difference between the extremists and the regular Muslims to make life easier for everyone. They, too, are sick of extremists murdering others in the name of Allah and want something done.

As I suggested in my first post, if you have questons regarding the difference beween mainstream or moderate Islam, why not discuss it with your friends, if indeed you have Islamic friends, rather than post your perspectives which I think any reasonable reader would consider to be at least unfair, and probably merely bigoted.

It seems as though the regular Muslims are fine with what the Islam extremists are doing. Can you not condemn these actions somehow. Can you not help the victims in these countries. Both of you contain the same label, and are held to share the same beliefs. Do you hold their beliefs too, and just refuse to openly practice them?

What you describe is not a reasonable description of any Muslim I know. The first call we recieved after 9/11 was from a Muslim friend making sure that my wife made it our of the World Trade Center. Your diatribe here seems suspiciously more like a reflection of your own biases than the perspectives of moderate Muslims.

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Apparently, you're content sitting on your ass watching people die from terrorism, because clearly you show no interest in finding a solution.

So if we do not buy into your particular brand of bigotry we are all happy to watch people die. Yah sure. The rules of the board prevent me from a candid response, so all I will say is have a nice day, jerk.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: RickSp As I suggested in my first post, if you have questons regarding the difference beween mainstream or moderate Islam, why not discuss it with your friends, if indeed you have Islamic friends, rather than post your perspectives which I think any reasonable reader would consider to be at least unfair, and probably merely bigoted. What you describe is not a reasonable description of any Muslim I know. The first call we recieved after 9/11 was from a Muslim friend making sure that my wife made it our of the World Trade Center. Your diatribe here seems suspiciously more like a reflection of your own biases than the perspectives of moderate Muslims. So if we do not buy into your particular brand of bigotry we are all happy to watch people die. Yah sure. The rules of the board prevent me from a candid response, so all I will say is have a nice day, jerk.

Rant all you want Rick, but I am opening up for solutions, and once again, you can find none. Congratulations, let's just sit back and watch another 9/11, shall we?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mia That's the oldest line in the book....'some of my best friends are black' and you're the only one acting childish and being insulting. You've not presented anything debateable - you started off with a question, it was answered, and you went on to your real agenda of attacking the Islamic faith!

How else am I supposed to prove to you that I am not prejudiced? I am not attacking the Muslim faith, I'm attacking extremist Islam, there's a difference that you clearly cannot see. How did you answer it? By calling me biggoted and prejudiced? Great solution. I'm trying to prevent terrorism by calling for ideas on religion and it seems you offer nothing besides your own prejudiced rants. Some leader you are. I find extremist Islam, and how we can stop it, pretty freaking debatable. You are just uncomfortable debating it.

Maybe you've never been to the atheist/theist debates, where they are much more heated and the insults much more offending. Yet, over there, no one is prejudiced nor biggoted, after all, they are just debating. Your sympathetic religious views make me throw up. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Mia]

I repeat:

Quote by: Mia Please list all Muslim countries and provide documentation that none of them let girls go to school. You want to debate? Let's go. Facts and figures and BACK-UP, not just your ideas.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Mia, that is rhetorical. No site contains that information with the documentation you want. If we asked for every idea we made to have existing documentation added to it, we wouldn't get anywhere. Now your really acting like a nine year old girl. I'm debating ideas, not evidence. If only 3 such countries exist, you can let me know.

[tinybear]

http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/b...ulletin-14.htm

Extracts:

"Some eight million primary school-age children remain out of school in the Arab States and five million of them are girls, according to a new report published by UNESCO. However, it finds that when given the opportunity to go to school, girls tend to repeat years less frequently than boys do and more complete their primary and secondary schooling. Prepared by the UNESCO Institute for Statistics, the Arab States Regional Report surveyed education in 19 countries - Algeria, Bahrain, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen, as well as the Palestinian Autonomous Territories with a total population of 270 million people, 39 percent of whom are under the age of 14. "

"Over the past twenty years, in Iran, the Sudan, Algeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan under the Taliban, political Islamic groups and Islamic regimes have proceeded to transform their countries, and particularly women's homes into prison houses, where the confinement of women, their exclusion from many fields of work and education, and their brutal treatment became the law of the land."

"Warlord Islamists terrorise women and are gaining more power 18 months after U.S. forces toppled the ruling Taliban regime. Even the opening of schools and colleges for women is under threat. Islamists warlords and local military commanders have taken control of much of the country. Instead of providing security, the warlords were terrorising the local population, particularly women in many parts of the country, with kidnappings, arbitrary arrests, armed robbery, extortion and beatings widespread. Political opponents, journalists and ordinary Afghans are attacked and intimidated into silence. Islamic fanaticism is on the rise, with new restrictions on freedom of expression and movement of women and girls. Gains in education are now at risk as many parents, afraid of attacks by troops and other gunmen, keep their daughters out of school. Under the Islamic Taliban, women and girls were largely restricted to their homes and were only allowed out if fully veiled and in the company of a male relative."

"When her time to die comes, convicted for having sex outside of marriage, Amina Lawal will be buried up to her neck in sand. When only her head remains exposed, those watching will be invited to throw stones until the 30-year-old single mother is dead.


"As they throw, they will be calling 'God is great," court official Ibrahim Abdullahi says, outlining procedure for the first in a sudden string of executions by stoning in Nigeria's Islamic northern states. A Sharia court upheld Lawal's death by stoning sentence for having sex outside of marriage. She gave birth more than nine months after divorcing. The case against the father was dismissed for lack of evidence. The court postponed her execution to 2004 so she can wean her daughter. But with each day Wasila grows older, Lawal's life grows shorter. Amina Lawal's appeal will be held on June 3rd. If Lawal is stoned, Islamic authorities will make sure it is a spectacle. They will find a place that is open. So people can come and see it done. Lawal's case provoked an international outcry. Government and human and women's rights groups around the world have urged Obasanjo's government to intercede.


'The Muslim has the Quran as his first constitution,' said Usman Zakari Dutse, the government spokesman for Jigawa State. 'We don't care what international organizations say. '"

[Mia]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Mia, that is rhetorical. No site contains that information with the documentation you want. If we asked for every idea we made to have existing documentation added to it, we wouldn't get anywhere. Now your really acting like a nine year old girl. I'm debating ideas, not evidence. If only 3 such countries exist, you can let me know.

But you're throwing in assertions as fact - so either back them up, or edit them out.

I know how to look up this information, I'm sorry you don't. It's your claim, though, so you need to back it up or retract your statements.