Ask A Mormon (LDS)

[jose]

Quote by: Prometheus Any charitible contribution tp any church is tax deductable. If yo uput money is a collection plate in any church, you can deduct it. There is nothing unusual about deducting a contribution to a church. I can garentee that the 10% we pay loses us more money then the deduction. We are certainly not cheating the taxpayers as you seem to impune.

far from suggesting you were cheating i was just asking a couple of questions, flip answered them with a polite response,which is what i would expect from a mormon,having got to know many on missionary in Melilla north Africa

[Flip Jackson]

YourTokah, unfortunately there are obese Mormons.No we don't kick them out, but they obviously don't recieve the health benefits of those who follow coucil more strictly. We don't make anyone participate in fitness programs, but we encourage exercise and give opportunities for it.

As far as the women thing, we don't try to subject them. Women have many leadership positions in the church. And women can use the priesthood, in a sense, once they have been tied to a man through marraige. Through marraige women have access to the man's priesthood, and men are bettered by the woman. At least I think it works that way. I believe I have heard that one women did a miracle by praying that it could be done through her husband's priesthood. We tend to think that men are the"head" of organizationsand families, but they should give women at least an equal say in what happens. Fathers in families are repeatedly told to treat thier wives as equals and to council with them in family affairs.

Every one "needs" God's assistance to attain certain attricutes that we lack in this life. Generally men seem to have better practical skills, and women have much better people skills and more sympathy. Both gender's can attain what they lack with God's help. Why does it seem strange that leaders have come to be as great as they are with God's help in bettering themselves? And many of the leaders were already good people, but made more perfect through God's help.

And each person should work on their own relationship with God. Bishops, priests, and leaders offer advice, council, and support. They also spend a lot of time directing the affairs of the church. If a person doesn't work to get close to God, no man or woman, can push that person closer to God. We are all encouraged to study.

Now there is reason for men having more than one wife and not the other way around. Especially in the past, women needed the financial support from men, so men had the abiblity to take care of more than one woman. And men could offer protection for more than one wife. And a woman does not need two husbands. With one husband she has her tie to the preisthood. But by a man marrying a few times, he can create a connection to the priesthood for women who didn't have the opportunity at the time. Keep in mind that men didn't choose to have another wife. When a woman was in need, the leaders would go to a good faithful man, and ask if he would help. I would bet that most of the time he talked with his wife before agreeing. And very few members were actually allowed to practice. Only the most obedient.

This is all to the best of my understanding. I could be wrong on a few points. Don't act as if I have all the right answers. Some other Mormons may have better answers.

[Flip Jackson]

Lilith, you are stepping into the fuzzier points of theology now, but I will do what I can. We believe that somehow, God and I guess His wife created our spirits. We know very little about our Heavenly Mother, but I assume this is because God didn't want her to be ridiculed as He has been over history. Think of how people treat God, and use Him and Christ as swear words or ways to show they are angry. So many people take their names in vain, I doubt He wanted to allow Her name to be subject to the same thing. So we don't know Her name or much about her, but I am sure we will after this life.

We are all spirit children of God, including Jesus Christ, and even Lucifer. But as far as Christ's mortal birth, I have no answer for you. I just don't know. We believe Mary was a virgin, but have no understanding of how Chirst was actually "concieved," or whatever you want to call it. We believe He did inherit certain abilities, power, and understanding because he was the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He was the only one that the Father had a hand in birthing, and so had some Godlike attributes, but was human and was able to die. Both these qualities of Christ were necessary for His atonement. A full God could not have suffered and died for us, because Gods don't die (And I doubt they are subject to physical pain), but a man could not have been the means of his own resurrection.

[YourTokah]

I appreciate you taking the time to give me your perspective.

I could never ascribe to the Mormon faith. To take it for granted that a woman should have a "tie to the priesthood" only through marriage offends me.

When I was a little girl, I had a plastic jewelry bowl made to look like crystal. I thought it was so beautiful.

My brother and I lived on a small farm, about 15 acres. On this farm was a perfect little secret garden, a little grove of trees surrounding a tiny meadow filled with flowers.

One day I took that little crystal/plastic bowl and filled it with rain water from a bucket. I took my little brother to that meadow and raised that bowl up and blessed it in the name of god, asked god to bless it, asked nature and the great spirit without and within to bless it and purify it. I felt such a spiritual power and grace - and my brother felt it, and believed, and accepted a mark of our "holy water" on his forehead.

I think of that a lot - I had spiritual feelings stronger than any I've experienced in a church. I am just as capable of being connected to God as a priest or priestess as the next lay-person. I cannot accept that a religion that does not allow women to be priests or messengers/emissaries/vessels of god and gods word and truth can possibly be correct.

Perhaps if I had been born and raised in this religion I would find it easier to accept, but I can guarantee that this point would be one of the first points I would have grabbed onto as soon as Ihit the age of Questioning.

Why do you believe that women should not be priests? Because they are better than men in some ways? Because they are more graceful, more patient, more compassionate - in short, already moer godlike - so if they are already more godlike, why shouldn't they be allowed to be vehicles for god's spirit in the priesthood? Why should they have to marry to get "tied" to the priesthood.

This idea is so primitive to me. It's like a tribal society where women had no rank and were merely respected as mothers and caregivers and cooks and occasionally healers, but the women tied to the chief and medicine man and shaman were the highest ranking women, and being tied to them was the only way to achieve rank as a woman.

I find it ludicrous.

I would appreciate it if Prometheus could give me his persepctive on this, also, because I'm still not sure how any Thinking individual (and I mean NO INSULT) can possibly accept these beliefs and relegate women to the lesser roles in the religion.

[Flip Jackson]

I undersatnd where you come from. I really do. But all this makes sense to me.

I do think women can have ranks of themselves. You are right, they can have just as much connection to God as man. They can feel the spirit, get revelation, have visions, and learn of His mysteries. I didn't mean to imply differently.

I don't think women should be just childbearers, mothers, and cooks. That is demeaning and boring. I can't stand the Mormon girls who go to college and major in things life home and family developement. I think women should learn and have skills in the area of their choice. They can be doctors, lawyers, scientists, or whatever.

But here is my personal view. Women can take care of kids better. Women are more patient and caring, and I would much rather have a girl take care of kids, than for instance my little brother. He isn't the most patient person with little kids. Should women solely take care of kids, with no help from men and without the time to enjoy themselves or learn?. No. Should the kids have to go to daycare everyday? No. I think there are ways for the kids to be taken care of without a woman being subjected. For example my sister in law's brother and his wife have an amazing set up. He works Monday through Friday while she watches the kids. She has a Phd and only has to work on Saturdays, while he takes care of kids. She has gotten to do a lot with herslf, she has learned a ton, and she gets to work, not to mention making a ton of money for the one day a week she works. Women should and can fulfill themselves.


My mom didn't work while we were young so that she couls take care of us. She also when exercisng with her friends. She also developed her talkents in photography because she really enjoys it.
My dad actually like cooking, and my mom doesn't, so whenever he has a chance he cooks and she doesn't. My mom cleans a lot, but she says she likes it. She enjoys that kind of thing because she can listen to talk radio or think or whatever.


So, I gues in conclusion, women can be vehicles of God's spirit. They can give council and guidance, just as men do. They can recieve revelation. But men and women have diffrent callings. Women perform childbirth, men perform baptism. Both are necessary just in different ways.

[Flip Jackson]

I bet Prometheus wil respond eventually, but he has a ton going on I think. He works a lot and is getting ready to leave on his mission.

[YourTokah]

women perform childbirth and men perform baptism... okay.

except all women perform childbirth as a natural physical reality of the human condition, whereas baptism is something concocted by men and reserved for men. It's like they had to make themselves feel better for Not being able to have children. I dunno, I just couldn't adhere to a faith like that.

[oranged]

Quote by: Prometheus I start this at the behest of another member. We'll see of there is any interest. There are a lot of misconceptions about my faith. I am not a very mainstream mormon, but what I say does not technically diverge from official church doctorine. I consider my interpretation of the faith to be the more intellectual one. Maybe flip will join in for the more mainstream viewpoint. Any question goes. I never get offended.

My question is, does your signature kind of contradict your religion?

[Lilith]

Quote by: Flip Jackson Lilith, you are stepping into the fuzzier points of theology now, but I will do what I can. We believe that somehow, God and I guess His wife created our spirits. We know very little about our Heavenly Mother, but I assume this is because God didn't want her to be ridiculed as He has been over history. Think of how people treat God, and use Him and Christ as swear words or ways to show they are angry. So many people take their names in vain, I doubt He wanted to allow Her name to be subject to the same thing. So we don't know Her name or much about her, but I am sure we will after this life. We are all spirit children of God, including Jesus Christ, and even Lucifer. But as far as Christ's mortal birth, I have no answer for you. I just don't know. We believe Mary was a virgin, but have no understanding of how Chirst was actually "concieved," or whatever you want to call it. We believe He did inherit certain abilities, power, and understanding because he was the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He was the only one that the Father had a hand in birthing, and so had some Godlike attributes, but was human and was able to die. Both these qualities of Christ were necessary for His atonement. A full God could not have suffered and died for us, because Gods don't die (And I doubt they are subject to physical pain), but a man could not have been the means of his own resurrection.

Now that's good, real good. Who did you say the founder of Mormon chruch was again?

[Mia]

Quote by: Flip Jackson We believe that the truly righteous and obedient people will become as God. That means they will eventually have His understanding and power. They will be able to create worlds and people's spirits and bodies.

Do all Mormons believe this?

[Flip Jackson]

YourTokah, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but not much I can do about it. I assure you that I have a great deal of respect for women in general, and that's about all I got left.

Lilith, I'm not sure what you now think about the religion, but I will continue to answer questions as they come. God founded the Mormon church. :) He did so through the prophet Joseph Smith.

Mia, as far as I know, all Mormons believe that all people have the potential to become as God. What exactly that entails we don't know the full extent of, but as I said, the obedient ones will at some point have the amount of understanding that God has, and will be able to do what He does.

[Mia]

OK, well that tells you right there why Mormons will never be accepted as Christians. Because they cannot be if this is what they believe. There is only one God.

[YourTokah]

I actually kinda like the premise that followers can eventually become god, because i sorta think that once we return to the source of all non-embodied energy we Are the source, so it sorta works for me.

[Flip Jackson]

I take the idea of there being only one God a little differently. This is how I see it. No matter how many beings have been exalted and become gods, only one matters in our lives. Only the God that created us and works in our lives matters to us. The others work their own creation and no intereaction is necessary.

This isn't like the Greek mythology were the Gods battle. The ability to become as God is seen as a given because we are His children. Aren't we? We then can achieve the perfection that He has, under certain conditions. Then we move continue increasing our glroy by having kids of our own, that can then become like us.

We still worship Christ, because without Him, we would have no hope of resurection or salvation from sin. While others might not consider us Christian, we believe and follow Christ just as much, if not more so, than many religions.

And technically aren't there at least two Gods? God the Father, and Jesus Christ His Son? We actually beleieve in a Godhead. Meaning we beleiev in Heavenly Father (God), Jesus Christ the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost. We see them as separate beings. God and Jesus are exalted humans. The Holy Ghost/Spirit can take the form of a human, but has no body, yet. I know this may sets apart from any that beleive in the Trinity, but the idea of a God that is everywhere at once, unkowable, and able to be multiple beings at once seems strange.

Ther is only one God the Father, at least as far as we are concerned. God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one in purpose, so they could probably be called One without actually being one enitity,

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Prometheus The lord has just given a simple, blanket rule. It is a test to follow all commandments, wheather or not they make sence.

This contradicts your earlier statement:

Quote by: Prometheus As far as coffie goes - it basically comes down to the drug in it. Caffiene is an addictive substance that is not good for your body. At the time the WOW was given, the only caffene was from tea and coffie or "hot drinks". Because of this the dietary restriction only applies to toe and coffie, but many mormons don't drink caffenated soda either. They try to live the "spirit of the law" as oppossed to the letter.

Either to object is to be healthy, or it is to do exactly what the commandment says. You can''t have it both ways. Which is it?

[Lilith]

A strange coincidence, last night at work, amongst all the mags in the employee lounge, I stumbled across a copy of The Book of Mormon. Indeed. I'll add to my collection of other books to read. May prove interesting.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Whoops, I meant to say "Either the object"...

[Flip Jackson]

Lilith, if nothing else, it will prove a unique read with lots of good morals, whether you believe the religious part of it or not. I encourage you to read it and see what you think. I will try to answer any questions you may have.

[Lilith]

Yes, it does appear to be unique read indeed. I'll get back to you on it.

[Jack]

Mormons will never be accepted as Christians. Because they cannot be if this is what they believe. There is only one God.

Mainstream christianity believes that after death all your sins are forgiven (you become perfect), you go to live with god in heaven (you're in the same location as god), you'll understand everything perfectly (you'll be omniscient), you'll live forever (you'll be eternal)...in what substantive way will you be any different than god? It seems to me you'll be gods just like god.

Now I have a question that I can't believe I don't know the answer to; where did the term Mormon come from? Moroni?