What decides Luck and Destiny???????

[Kuldeep]

The terms luck and destiny are things about which everybody talks and worries. In all walks of life people want life pleasures and love to have them with minimum efforts. Some get everything as result of their birth with rich parents. But due to their in-efficiency, they grow in luxury and waste available effortless money and turns poor in future passage of life. Some getting born to ordinary poor family and remain so throughout their life due to less exposure. Few get such turn in life, come in contact with unexpected personality and achieves highest position in their life. Somebody doing fine in life, studies well and achieves hights in social and service or political life. But somehow, devlops severe disease or meets severe accident and dies in young age. On the other hand a beggar somehow gets his bare meals, sleeps road side; but lives a along life, practically purposeless one. Even some lucky pets are enjoying master's bed and have special type of pet food; while mostly common ones die un-attended!!


My query to all members is " What decides this fate of millions and millions of species, humen in particular"? Can the whole thing be a matter of chance????? Or, is there any solid logic behind what happens around us???????

Let me wait for sometime to offer my views about this!! Better to hear first as ears are two; while mouth is only one!!!!

[SoccerfreakAB2]

There is no such this as luck, only probability. People want to think they have a destiny because when we use the term "destiny" we think it means something good, when, on the other hand, your "destiny" could be to die in a plane or something. There is no such thing as a destiny anyways. It's another creation by the human mind, like karma or the soul, that keeps us thinking we have a meaning out there. Sorry guys, we don't.

[Athena]

I agree with this,

There is no such this as luck, only probability.

Like in quantum physics there is probability.

I disagree with the idea that we do not have purpose. However, when it comes to purpose, that is our free will choice, not a given.

If we understood democracy, we would understand we have a shared purpose in life, and this would greatly improve life for everyone.

All things in nature have their purpose. Because man can learn and reason, he has a higher purpose than the rest.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Athena I agree with this, Like in quantum physics there is probability. I disagree with the idea that we doing have purpose. However, when it comes to purpose, that is our free will choice, not a given. If we understood democracy, we would understand we have a shared purpose in life, and this would greatly improve life for everyone. All things in nature have their purpose. Because man can learn and reason, he has a higher purpose than the rest.

It was probability that got us here in the first place of learning and reasoning, just like it's probability that you are typing in this forum. Just because sometimes the improbable happens over the likely probable, doesn't give it any more of a "purpose" than anything else. We have just as much of this "purpose" as any other animal or amoeba. We're technically in the same boat.

[orgaelin]

The one interesting thing about the concept of luck is that some people seem to have more of it. Now I'm with the sceptics here on the subject of luck - it's little more than probability. But I for one cannot deny that some people are just damn lucky!

I have two different relatives who are both really lucky all the time. One always wins at bingo, the other wins at just about anything he puts his hand to...

And I have to say that I think the common thread between these lucky few is their mentality. My brother, the lucky one, has the most amazingly positive upbeat mentality, and I have no doubt he will never experience depression in his whole life. He thinks positive, and positive stuff just happens. My bingo-loving aunt goes in expecting to win, not just because of a positive attitude, but by now because of simple conditioning!

So what exactly is going on with people like this? Can anyone suggest a mechanism by which positive attitude/expectation translates into positive results? (I have my own ideas! )

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: orgaelin The one interesting thing about the concept of luck is that some people seem to have more of it. Now I'm with the sceptics here on the subject of luck - it's little more than probability. But I for one cannot deny that some people are just damn lucky! I have two different relatives who are both really lucky all the time. One always wins at bingo, the other wins at just about anything he puts his hand to... And I have to say that I think the common thread between these lucky few is their mentality. My brother, the lucky one, has the most amazingly positive upbeat mentality, and I have no doubt he will never experience depression in his whole life. He thinks positive, and positive stuff just happens. My bingo-loving aunt goes in expecting to win, not just because of a positive attitude, but by now because of simple conditioning! So what exactly is going on with people like this? Can anyone suggest a mechanism by which positive attitude/expectation translates into positive results? (I have my own ideas! )

It's probability as well that one person is more likely to win an improbable situation than others. Everything is probability. The probability of your relatives winning everything for the rest of their lives may be 1 in a million, but then obviously they are that special 1. Probability is the only logical explanation for everything, even though as humans, we try and find patterns to things and we want to give them meaning, like our own lives.

[Athena]

Quote by: orgaelin The one interesting thing about the concept of luck is that some people seem to have more of it. Now I'm with the sceptics here on the subject of luck - it's little more than probability. But I for one cannot deny that some people are just damn lucky! I have two different relatives who are both really lucky all the time. One always wins at bingo, the other wins at just about anything he puts his hand to... And I have to say that I think the common thread between these lucky few is their mentality. My brother, the lucky one, has the most amazingly positive upbeat mentality, and I have no doubt he will never experience depression in his whole life. He thinks positive, and positive stuff just happens. My bingo-loving aunt goes in expecting to win, not just because of a positive attitude, but by now because of simple conditioning! So what exactly is going on with people like this? Can anyone suggest a mechanism by which positive attitude/expectation translates into positive results? (I have my own ideas! )

Research has demonstrated that thoughts do effect out come, even the when this is the roll of dice or a slot machine. Never gamble with scared money, because this is demonstratably bad luck. There is an increasing about such reseach and books on the subject. Another way this works, is positive people are more likely to take the risk, increasing their chances of winning. Most of us are "unlucky" when we don't expect things to well, and do not take the opportunity that comes our way.

[Sonart]

Quote by: Soccer There is no such this as luck, only probability.

Bingo! However, probability can change depending on the aptitudes of individual humans. Someone genetically blessed with more athleticism and/or nurtured with certain skills may have a higher probability of dealing successfully with a dangerous environment. Someone genetically blessed and/or nurtured with above average drive, superior intelligence, charisma, and a calm, logical mind, might have a higher probability of achieving success as a leader. People seeing these qualities in that person early on might suggest they have a destiny. 'Destiny', therefore, is a recognition of qualities that suggest a higher probability of achieving something in the future..

.

[Athena]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 It was probability that got us here in the first place of learning and reasoning, just like it's probability that you are typing in this forum. Just because sometimes the improbable happens over the likely probable, doesn't give it any more of a "purpose" than anything else. We have just as much of this "purpose" as any other animal or amoeba. We're technically in the same boat.

Not all things are a matter of probability. We have self will. I truly think our self will is different from all the animals. I also believe a spiritual reality is possible and that we may live through several incarnation that are the result of karma and self will. I believe my chances of being by a car when I cross a street are greatly reduced by my understanding of the situation and the choices I make, making the likelihood of being struck by a car, something very different from probability. It is not all probability.

Research has proven mediation and prayer can increase an individuals chances of surviving cancer. It is not all probability, but there is a factor of self determination that humans have and animals do not.

[Jack]

but there is a factor of self determination that humans have and animals do not.

Humans are animals. We certainly aren't vegatable or mineral.

I truly think our self will is different from all the animals.

And I think we have no way of knowing that to be the case. Considering humans to be superior to all other life on the planet is a theistic concept, and the cause of many of the world's problems.
Luck, chance, odds, probability...it's all mathmatics. You've got to switch over to philosophy to try and apply meaning to it. I don't think there is any.

[Flip Jackson]

I don't see why we kee p saying luck doesn't exist. We just use luck to say that good or bad things are happening right? Its not like luck is its own entity that rains on some people and others suffer drought.

I think a lot of things are involved in luck. You are lucky if other people's choices benefit you. You aren't lucky if people choose you beacuse of your attitude. You are lucky if people choose you because of your attitude even if five similar people are standing next to you.

Luck is just a way of saying that probabilty seems to favor some people more than others. Or when an event happens that logically shouldn't have. Luck is like defying the odds. If there is a 1 out of 1000 chance to win some game, and you win, then you defied probablity and are so labeled lucky.

Destiny is a stickier topic. That's like saying our life has already been planned for us and we just go through the motions. It is sometimes funny to joke about destiny, but it seems to have no real bearing. Some things do seem to line up just right for a certain event to happen, but that could be attrubuted to odds. Did Orgaelin say that you always have to consider the probablity that the improbable will happen? Something like that....

[SteveA]

My query to all members is " What decides this fate of millions and millions of species, humen in particular"? Can the whole thing be a matter of chance????? Or, is there any solid logic behind what happens around us???????

I do believe somewhat in karma, and it's even evolutionarily possible that people have some sort of instincts to return favors done (whether that was a good favor or bad favor), but mostly I just wanted to comment that out of all the possible lifestyles you listed above, I'd much prefer to be born poor and grow prosperous that to be born in comfort and lose it all.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: SteveA I do believe somewhat in karma, and it's even evolutionarily possible that people have some sort of instincts to return favors done (whether that was a good favor or bad favor), but mostly I just wanted to comment that out of all the possible lifestyles you listed above, I'd much prefer to be born poor and grow prosperous that to be born in comfort and lose it all.

Yeha, your line of thinking can be the only explanation and not the pssibility of probability, discussed so far!!! However, you have to change your somewhat belief to full belief, to remove all the doubt that nothing can happen without a reason. Nature cannot be injustice. You sow rice, you would not get wheat and vice-versa!!

Coming to your preference to be born poor and grow prosperous, it is not only this wish but all your wishes would be fulfilled. The only thing is that the wish should be cent percent true with 0% doubt, which is very very difficult for a normal human. This is why very few wishes are fulfilled in practice. Much more later on hearing full discussion.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Athena Not all things are a matter of probability. We have self will. I truly think our self will is different from all the animals. I also believe a spiritual reality is possible and that we may live through several incarnation that are the result of karma and self will. I believe my chances of being by a car when I cross a street are greatly reduced by my understanding of the situation and the choices I make, making the likelihood of being struck by a car, something very different from probability. It is not all probability. Research has proven mediation and prayer can increase an individuals chances of surviving cancer. It is not all probability, but there is a factor of self determination that humans have and animals do not.

Well you can believe what you wish but the bottom line is that it all boils down to probability. It's simple even in your example. With an understanding of the situation (such as you noticing the car), obviously the probability of you getting hit is more slim than if you didn't see the car. It's still possible though. What if you slip? What if the car goes out of control? They are both improbable occurences, but still possible.

Spritual reality? Maybe with one's self, but not with a higher authority. Quite the oxymoron.

You have no destiny. You have choices, and you pick one, or more. Sometimes people make the most unwise choice. Sometimes they make the right one. I don't see how destiny comes into this decision making process.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Flip Jackson I don't see why we kee p saying luck doesn't exist. We just use luck to say that good or bad things are happening right? Its not like luck is its own entity that rains on some people and others suffer drought. I think a lot of things are involved in luck. You are lucky if other people's choices benefit you. You aren't lucky if people choose you beacuse of your attitude. You are lucky if people choose you because of your attitude even if five similar people are standing next to you. Luck is just a way of saying that probabilty seems to favor some people more than others. Or when an event happens that logically shouldn't have. Luck is like defying the odds. If there is a 1 out of 1000 chance to win some game, and you win, then you defied probablity and are so labeled lucky.

I only said there is no such thing as luck because some people think that probability is almost "greater" for some than others, when really it acts upon everyone the same. We don't say Jimmy has great probability, we say he is lucky. So there's two ways to look at it.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Isherwood Luck, chance, odds, probability...it's all mathmatics. You've got to switch over to philosophy to try and apply meaning to it. I don't think there is any.

The various terms mentioned in the opening remarks of the thread, are not discussed even mathematically what to speak of Philosophically!!! My simple question was... Why any event happens only the way it happened and not differently??? Are the efforts of person responsible for the success of event or destiny also has a role to play!!!!

While elaborating, I gave an example of dog enjoying comforts from his master, while human beggar not getting proper food to eat. Is this all happening without a reason or it has a reason behind it. I fail to understand how Probability has crept in!!! To my mind it can not be a mere chance that a particular Puppy was picked up by a rich master and thus it could enjoy the comforts; while beggar was born to a poor person who could not get ample food even. We are apparently terming this difference with two species, as Luck. Why this difference?????

Let me tell another incident of a dog getting some piece of meat. After putting it in his mouth he tries to seek a lonely place, where he could eat it without any difficulty. When he was about to sit and eat, another stronger dog saw and snatched piece of meat. This way the meat piece was not in the fate of first dog. The coming or not coming of the stronger dog has decided the fate of first dog. Can this event happen without a reason??? No, I do not think it so!!!

With these two examples, I want to establish luck or destiny is there and probabilty is altogether a different mathematical falasy and has nothing to do with the luck or destiny. Now the question arises: Can this luck or destiny be fixed arbitarily or is some sort of record keeping done by some unknown technique???? Nature can not be purely injustic to so many species without a reason, so some sort of mechanism is at work which maintains overall give and take record of whole universe. Action and reaction is the methodology adopted, which can be termed as Karmic Reality. What you sow, so shall you reap. The only explanation, which can explain different luck or destiny is due to Action and its balance reaction at the time of death of a specie. It has to come back in other life to bear the fruits of previously done action in its previous births. The system is automatically recording type and the instrument is one's own mind. The acceptance of an action done by a person is itself sure shot of bearing the reaction of that action. It may come in this very life or in next births. This hypothesis can only explain different luck for different living creatures, including different existing genetic order in a particular person, who acts better than others due to his due share of reaction as result of previous action. :eek:

The soultion is therefore "Do good have good from now on" Past bad actions can not be undone. We have to bear the fruits of those actions. The wisest decision is therefore, to start doing only good action now on so our stock will turn whole good one day, may be in incoming future lives. This way only we can earn good luck for us!! This is the good preaching of leading world religions. Sanatan Dharm in particular. :)