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Technosoul · Jul 13, 2005, 02:04 pm

What if I proposed a concept that the supernatural "being" is really a super-technological being. Beings who are basically natural but who have super-technological abilty because of their advances technology. As well, they would have knowledge well in advance of our own evolutions in knowledge.

Got any opinons about that (please - no Webster buffs).

Technosoul.

Starboy · Jul 13, 2005, 02:25 pm

In that case the so called "supernatural being" is really an all-natural being. But what ever it is, to quote the movie that had two governors in it, "If it bleeds we can kill it."

Starboy

**Jack** · Jul 13, 2005, 02:47 pm

I generally use the term "supernatural" to refer to anything beyond natural, involving extra-ordinary means. I've heard the Northern Lights referred to as "supernatural displays" simply because they are outside our normal frame of reference for lightning, but I don't think that's a proper application of the term. I see what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure that supernatural is the word you want. It's too identified with the mystical and magical, and of course, religion.

clarky · Jul 13, 2005, 02:52 pm

Supernatural beings are just made up things as a reason for strange happenings. They don't exist.

Technosoul · Jul 13, 2005, 03:17 pm

Well, starboy, we have airplanes that are hard to shoot down because they employ technology that can divert the "bullet" and so forth. Why not have something simular for personal protection? Eh?

Isherwood - of course we have ghosts and such things that might be the product of imagination, but also if Moses or someone encountered someone who was surrounded and made use of super technology he might think, because of that, that he was in the company of something supernatual in nature. After all, technology can do some things not commonly observed in nature, as a natual happening.

I think that is what I am getting at.

A Wizard, for example, might look like he is performing a supernatural act, but he might just be employing technology or knowledge that is advanced of those watching.

**Jack** · Jul 13, 2005, 03:24 pm

So you'd be one of those who ascribe things like ESP and telekinesis not to the supernatural realm but as simply a manifestation of yet undiscovered natural abilities common to all humans, a result of undiscovered activity in the brain? OK, I could accept that.

Starboy · Jul 13, 2005, 08:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

A Wizard, for example, might look like he is performing a supernatural act, but he might just be employing technology or knowledge that is advanced of those watching.

Quote:

Quote by: Arthur C. Clark

Any sufficient advance in technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Starboy

Technosoul · Jul 14, 2005, 02:37 am

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

So you'd be one of those who ascribe things like ESP and telekinesis not to the supernatural realm but as simply a manifestation of yet undiscovered natural abilities common to all humans, a result of undiscovered activity in the brain? OK, I could accept that.

In the two cases you noted, yes. I think that animals (pets) have much better aliblities in that department and would be better subjects for that research. Perhaps because humans have become more dependant upon other senses or are just naturally more insensitive.

Technosoul · Jul 14, 2005, 02:43 am

Correct, and that is what is so goorvy about being a science fiction writer is you can get away with saying it.

Starboy · Jul 14, 2005, 09:09 am

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

Correct, and that is what is so goorvy about being a science fiction writer is you can get away with saying it.

Your observation well illustrates how people use the term supernatural. It is just a cover for profound ignorance but they lack the honesty to admit it.

Starboy

Samildanach · Jul 14, 2005, 11:15 am

In theory it would be possible for someone to obtain all the powers of God through scientific means.
Does this make them God? If you put two identical items beside each other that are indistinguishable are they not the same?

Starboy · Jul 14, 2005, 01:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Samildanach

In theory it would be possible for someone to obtain all the powers of God through scientific means.
Does this make them God? If you put two identical items beside each other that are indistinguishable are they not the same?

There is a huge difference between a superior being and a supreme being. A supreme being is always supreme whereas that techno god could always be one-upped by another being with more knowledge.

Starboy

Technosoul · Jul 14, 2005, 01:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Samildanach

In theory it would be possible for someone to obtain all the powers of God through scientific means.
Does this make them God? If you put two identical items beside each other that are indistinguishable are they not the same?

After Adam and Eve partook of the knowledge God said "now they have become like us".

So that biblical "prediction" would be fulfilled. Espeically if the knowledge of good and evil is really the knowledge about life and death. ( aka - genetics and dna research).

Whatcha think?
Technosoul.

Starboy · Jul 14, 2005, 01:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

After Adam and Eve partook of the knowledge God said "now they have become like us".

So that biblical "prediction" would be fulfilled. Espeically if the knowledge of good and evil is really the knowledge about life and death. ( aka - genetics and dna research).

Whatcha think?
Technosoul.

Who knows what the metaphor of Adam and Eve means? It was concocted long ago by a people that had a very different understanding of reality.

Starboy

Technosoul · Jul 14, 2005, 01:53 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Starboy

Your observation well illustrates how people use the term supernatural. It is just a cover for profound ignorance but they lack the honesty to admit it.

Starboy

You mean the remote control gadget for my TV set is not supernatural? Holy cow !

Starboy · Jul 14, 2005, 02:04 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

You mean the remote control gadget for my TV set is not supernatural? Holy cow !

See what I mean. Profound ignorance.

Starboy

**Jack** · Jul 14, 2005, 02:12 pm

Nah, he's just exhibiting the wonder of a child.

(Technosoul, it's really magic.)

Starboy · Jul 14, 2005, 02:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

Nah, he's just exhibiting the wonder of a child.

(Technosoul, it's really magic.)

When I was a child I didn't like it when people thought so little of my intelligence. I made an effort to know of and understand reality, not what I wanted it to be but what it actually was.

Starboy

**Jack** · Jul 14, 2005, 02:20 pm

It sounds like you're taking this too seriously (if I'm wrong, excuse me). Revel in your intelligence, but a healthy sense of humor is just as valuable.

Athena · Jul 14, 2005, 02:55 pm

Technolsoul, you pose a most interesting question.

One of the reasons, democracy won over theocracy in the US is the churches were insired by Newton's science, and loved using it as proof that there is a God and everything did not happen by chance. This lead to deism, the belief that there is a God, but not necessarily the God of the bible. Deist us life as the word of God, not the bible. They focus on the Laws of Nature, and this did in fact greatly advance the good of our lives. Christianity can not cure the evils of our lives that those who study the Laws of Nature have cured. The problem with this line of thinking is it can be too mechanical. When it becomes too mechanical, we loose a since of meaning. It is depressing to think our lives are no more meaningful the lives of knats.

The Egyptians were intent on order. It was the pharaoh's job to keep the God's pleased, and keep life in order. Our introduction to scientific thinking begins with the Egyptians.
However, the division from supernatural that is superior technology and supernatural that is emotional Gods with egos, is the human failing. We crave a humanized God, as this gives us a sense of purpose, and comfort and perhaps sense of being loved, as we project the best of ourselves into a loving God and this projection comes the experienced feeling of being comforted and loved. Same as thinking of the devil can stir feelings of lust, fear and anger. Such humanized Gods, can also be jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing. They can be war Gods that drive people to wars, as they project their desire for land or oil into the will of God. They can be Gods of peace as many understand Allah to be, although some justify terrorism with the words of Allah. It is the human element of Gods that gets us into trouble.

Jul 13, 2005, 02:04 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	The Supernatural. What if I proposed a concept that the supernatural "being" is really a super-technological being. Beings who are basically natural but who have super-technological abilty because of their advances technology. As well, they would have knowledge well in advance of our own evolutions in knowledge. Got any opinons about that (please - no Webster buffs). Technosoul.

Jul 13, 2005, 02:47 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,732	I generally use the term "supernatural" to refer to anything beyond natural, involving extra-ordinary means. I've heard the Northern Lights referred to as "supernatural displays" simply because they are outside our normal frame of reference for lightning, but I don't think that's a proper application of the term. I see what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure that supernatural is the word you want. It's too identified with the mystical and magical, and of course, religion. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 13, 2005, 03:24 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,732	So you'd be one of those who ascribe things like ESP and telekinesis not to the supernatural realm but as simply a manifestation of yet undiscovered natural abilities common to all humans, a result of undiscovered activity in the brain? OK, I could accept that. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 14, 2005, 11:15 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	In theory it would be possible for someone to obtain all the powers of God through scientific means. Does this make them God? If you put two identical items beside each other that are indistinguishable are they not the same? I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jul 14, 2005, 02:12 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,732	Nah, he's just exhibiting the wonder of a child. (Technosoul, it's really magic.) The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 13, 2005, 02:25 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	In that case the so called "supernatural being" is really an all-natural being. But what ever it is, to quote the movie that had two governors in it, "If it bleeds we can kill it." Starboy

Jul 13, 2005, 02:52 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
clarky Live Wire Posts: 16	Supernatural beings are just made up things as a reason for strange happenings. They don't exist.

Jul 13, 2005, 03:17 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Well, starboy, we have airplanes that are hard to shoot down because they employ technology that can divert the "bullet" and so forth. Why not have something simular for personal protection? Eh? Isherwood - of course we have ghosts and such things that might be the product of imagination, but also if Moses or someone encountered someone who was surrounded and made use of super technology he might think, because of that, that he was in the company of something supernatual in nature. After all, technology can do some things not commonly observed in nature, as a natual happening. I think that is what I am getting at. A Wizard, for example, might look like he is performing a supernatural act, but he might just be employing technology or knowledge that is advanced of those watching.

Jul 14, 2005, 02:43 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Correct, and that is what is so goorvy about being a science fiction writer is you can get away with saying it.

Jul 14, 2005, 02:20 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,732	It sounds like you're taking this too seriously (if I'm wrong, excuse me). Revel in your intelligence, but a healthy sense of humor is just as valuable. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 14, 2005, 02:55 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Athena Volcanic Erupter Location: Oregon Posts: 5,174	Technolsoul, you pose a most interesting question. One of the reasons, democracy won over theocracy in the US is the churches were insired by Newton's science, and loved using it as proof that there is a God and everything did not happen by chance. This lead to deism, the belief that there is a God, but not necessarily the God of the bible. Deist us life as the word of God, not the bible. They focus on the Laws of Nature, and this did in fact greatly advance the good of our lives. Christianity can not cure the evils of our lives that those who study the Laws of Nature have cured. The problem with this line of thinking is it can be too mechanical. When it becomes too mechanical, we loose a since of meaning. It is depressing to think our lives are no more meaningful the lives of knats. The Egyptians were intent on order. It was the pharaoh's job to keep the God's pleased, and keep life in order. Our introduction to scientific thinking begins with the Egyptians. However, the division from supernatural that is superior technology and supernatural that is emotional Gods with egos, is the human failing. We crave a humanized God, as this gives us a sense of purpose, and comfort and perhaps sense of being loved, as we project the best of ourselves into a loving God and this projection comes the experienced feeling of being comforted and loved. Same as thinking of the devil can stir feelings of lust, fear and anger. Such humanized Gods, can also be jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punishing. They can be war Gods that drive people to wars, as they project their desire for land or oil into the will of God. They can be Gods of peace as many understand Allah to be, although some justify terrorism with the words of Allah. It is the human element of Gods that gets us into trouble.