Did God Write the Bible

[Chris]

Quote by: Athena My point was logic is not fool proof. Just because something appears logical, that doesn't make it so. Do not assume everyone shares your information, and therefore, you can stop at saying something is logical.

I believe I misunderstood then. Scientifically there can be no invisible man in the sky that sees everything and knows everything. Your body is made up of cells and atoms. When you die your organic material turns into dust there is no magical essence of a person. We are just a higher (more intelligent) form of life found throughout earth. Why would there be a place called heaven and a place called hell that only applies to one (1) species on the planet? Why not a doggie heaven? why not a chimp heaven or a dolphin heaven?

I think the purpose of religion was to put people of an ancient time on a good moral path and threaten them with the "fires of hell" if they stray into being bad. The use of spooky language and threats is what kept these primitive peoples in check. I wouls like to think we have advanced since the days of stoning to death -someone who happens to be gay.

[IGX]

Quote by: Athena "God is sleeping in rocks and minerals, waking in plants and animals, to know himself in man." The author should visit the laws of physics before halucinating. Chardin, a Catholic priest forbidden to publish because the church said his work was full of flaws. He said evolution is God's plan. Several have said, we are God's consciousness. Humanity is the body of Christ. Everything is the manifestation of God, only the human mind has the capicity to learn and reason, and therefore be the consciousness of a God experiencing His manifestation

Does that make you feel warm and cozy?

Personaly, I can only accept provable concepts into my knowledge base.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: m3talsmith_redu I voted "Men who were inspired or directed by God to do so." but only because it's the closest to what I believe: it is not the whole picture. Why? Because man decided what should be canonized in an attempt to fend itself from the attacks of other religions, and to use their joint efforts to attack other religions; primarily Judaism. God did not tell them to form the Bible in about 10 different competing versions; each including different sets of books and so on. Man did that. Before the Jews and Christians started competing, there were no set books in the Bible. The jews had just started gathering collections near the birth of Jesus, thousands of years after events had happened and the Jewish faith had been going. Not only that but Jews didn't rely on the written word; mainly because they had a much more rich oral tradition with more in it than what was written down. It was the Christian movements and the dispersion of the jews by the Romans that forced the jews to start writing things down and even translating the Tanakh/Torah/Talmud to Greek; which is where the Gentile Christians got their first taste of the Old Testament. Let's not even delve too deeply into the fact that books were as scattered and as vast as you'd see them today if you just walked into a religious book store. Canonizing the Bible was a method of picking which ones went together and did not contradict each other. In other words you hold in your hands a fraction of the wealth of Christian knowledge if you are holding the King James version of the Bible for instance. Then there's the translation of a translation of a translation aspect, which tends to magnify mistakes rather than correct them. Also there's questions as to whether we were adding or removing to or from the scriptures by adding the New Testament, and so on. I tell you this, I could study until I die and not know the answers to all these questions. Even if I knew Hebrew (old and new), Greek, Aramaic, Latin, French, and Egyptian, and all the localized variants, of which are all the various forms that the Bible was written in, I would still not be able to solve the questions as I would not have access to the original sources, of which most are destroyed. Nor would I be steeped in the oral traditions of the Jews or early Christians, of which was necessary to understand even the alphabet in which this was written. You see, it's far too complex, and no scholar to date has solved a fraction of it. This debate has been going on before the reformation, and earlier. In fact the reformation was caused as an attempt to bring an understanding to this. Please, not one person, don't act like you have the absolute answer on this. As far as I'm concerned this thread would have to survive a few more centuries to even get close to understanding the magnitude of the problem.

Very good points. Also, as late as 200 BC people often wrote in the name of Moses - doing something "in the name" of someone famous (respected as a spiritural leader) was common because they did not want to take credit from an egocentric position. Just like people might do something in the name of Jesus and then praise him if their prayers, healings, or other activity is a success.

[Athena]

Quote by: gr8ridejester This argument you speak of is the reason these wars/conflicts are occuring. No one commented on this statement:

Why not?

Okay, what I would like to discuss is the possibility that the Hebrews came from Amenhotep IV's holy city where monotheism was practiced. If we would return to the orgin of thoughts, I believe we can put the context of the history we have to work get a more comprehensive order. I believe if God has willed anything for us, it is the Resurection, turning over every rock- the work of archeologist, geologist and related sciences working together for the most complete history of humanity possible. As strongly as any Christian or Muslim felt about religion, I feel we should all be participating in the Resurection. This is the way to world peace.

Amen Does anyone know why we use that word? Where does it come from?

I don't have the anwer to the above, but I do know Sumerians wrote in cuneiform because this is well documented. I have written the Sumerian story of the river eating the goddess's plants and her cursing him to death a couple of times. In that story Ninti is one of the goddesses who helps heal the river. Her specialty is healing ribs and her name translate to "the lady of the rib" and "the lady who makes live". The play on words does not work in Hebrew, but the rib did enter the Gerden of Eden story in the form of Eve, the mother of the human race- "the lady who makes live". Eden and Adam also appear in cunniform. Eden means "uncultivated plain" and Adam means "settlement on the plain".

Eden was probably located at the confluence of the four rivers in the Prusian Gulf region.
The story that became the story of Adam of Eve, was most likely an account of climate change, and the migration of people. A long draught turning the once fertile area into a desert and again back to a fertile valley. It was human practice, and still exist today in some places, to humanize nature, calling rivers and rock formations names and telling stories about them.

The Hebrews were nomadic people and they searched archives wherever they went. This is very reminiacence of Amenhotep IV monotheism which began with a search of the Egyptian archives for the one true God, Ra. We know they were in Ur because the bible says so. Ur was a Sumerian city. The Hebrews translated the Sumerian story and had to make some adjustments so it would be the story of one God instead of several. This is no different from us finding a writing of an anceint medical practice, and someone explaining it. and adjusting it to comply with what we now know of medicine. There was no intent to decieve or control. Hebrews were sincerely interested in truth and searched for it every where. It is very much a part of our human nature to want to know truth, and to think our explanation of it is better.

[Jack]

Amen Does anyone know why we use that word? Where does it come from?

A brief answer from my dictionary:
"Amen \A`men"\ (?; 277), interj., adv., & n. [L. amen, Gr.
'amh`n, Heb. [=a]m[=e]n certainly, truly.]"

[m3talsmith_redu]

Quote by: Athena m3talsmith_redu Too bad the bible was filled with information about how to do rituals and sacrifices which are not deemed essential to religion today, and neglected all the science and technlogical developments that had civilized people living a much higher standard of living than Christian Europe had for hundreds of years. m3talsmith_redu do you believe it is demons that make us sick? The bible is the foundation of witch hunts. While European Christians were retarded by a book that held them in the past, Arabs were continuing to develop math, medicine, and astronomy, and their civilization was much more advanced than Europe's when European Christians entered the crusades. Our blessings are not from the bible, and sacrificing animals but from science.

One at a time Athena :).

There's a reason those sacrifices aren't deemed essential:
1) The Jews have no temple. If they had a temple you would see these sacrifices again as many Native Jewish friends have told me they are pushing to do.
2) As Christians Christ has fulfilled the need for sacrifice as he was the final one.
3) It is outmoded. Even very few Pagan's (non-Christians or non-jews; a very loose term) now sacrifice.

Demons, they exist at least in Africa. My father in-law just got back from there. They have a thing called water spirits which help woman get pregnant. They do this by the woman making a deal with the spirit, once the deal is done the spirit goes possesses the man and woman, changing them in measurable physiological ways, in other words DNA and flesh, so they can get pregnant, but they are mentally prevented from sleeping with each other or anyone else from that point on; they don't even have sex to give birth to the child. Strange stuff.

They also perform healing and such. Witchcraft is different from Demon possession; a whole different religion, although the media would have you think they are the same.

I'm not going to validate any of this since I don't have first hand experience. Just telling you what I've been told and shown through video (however reliable video is these days *sick*).

The European Christian Church was all about about power, as most churches still are today. They do not represent christians at large and they never have.

If you are talking Dark to Middle Ages, you will notice that Europe was still forming, from it's huddled masses of roaming and warring tribes, into what we now see; thousands of years of it. Meanwhile the Arabs (an older race for sure) have been cultured before Europe was even thought about. I don't see how those compare. Vastly different societies, and Christianity had very little of a role to play in that saga. However forced slavery and obeisance had much more to do with it; empire building.

Also, the witch hunts were started, by the Roman empire, in an attempt to kill the Druids that helped keep the Celtic society together, thus weakening their will to fight against the mighty Roman empire. this has been done through the centuries by various nations from the Babylonians to the Spaniards, and nothing is special about it. By the way, the Arab Muslims did the same thing to any competing Religion, where as previous Arabian Religion was diverse pre-Muslim period.

Yes, the Puritans did this too in America. The reason... To try and muscle their flock into staying with their ideals. The Puritan religion was losing members left and right to the Quakers, Shakers, and Protestants.

Any religion based on law is going to be flawed, forced to enforce their laws by arms and the inhalation of competition. The Hebrews did this by slaughter as well as the Babylonians, Romans, Britons, Celts and Picts, Spaniards, Arabians, Puritans, etc..., and their relative religions. Can't blame Christians without looking at others too. It is all about extreme sects. unfortunately those are the ones that gain in visible power. While the majority of said religion disagree heartily, they rarely are vocal enough, or valiant enough to stop it.

[Technosoul]

Here is a question that I have about "who wrote the Bible" or even if selected men were instructed to write it by God.

How come a highly intelligent God would write the story about creation or about topics like illness and so forth in a manner that is less intelligent then what modern science can create as texts.

I would expect something really in tune with our most advanced knowledge rather then what we see in the opening chapters of the Bible. Or something that would not conflict with later facts and human discoveries.

If A God is going to insturct us about how the earth and universe was formed why not give us facts that could later be confirmed with some sort of reasonable effort rather then giving us a myth that must depend on faith and faith alone to be acceptable?

[iHu]

My version of the truth is that The Bible is written by men who wanted to control or subject others to create social order. I am 100% certain it ahs been edited many, many times, which leaves me to wonder "Wowee wow, who gets to edit over 'God's word'?" But don't get me wrong, it's definitely got some holy wisdom in it, though ("JC" unquestioably brings a certain philosophy and wisdom on par with all of the greats covered by Will Durant et al), and serves up Earthly purposes both constructive and quite destructive. I have seen it, this is axiomatic. I tend to side wih Technosoul's ilk but I'll be sweet dreaming about Athena's world. Thank you for both, the balance is in us all -- one with the day, the night.

[Savant]

2,5, & 6 What do I win!?!

[nokton]

All the above, has an assumption about a God. Discarded it decades ago.
Understand the flaws in evolution theory, relate them to Man's evolution,
and may I say, the human condition now. We are now facing a war of different
religious beliefs, 'God' is an excuse and justification for ones belief in contest with
another. You are not of my tribe, is the key here. Man has always been a tribal animal.
'God' is invoked as reason and excuse, where there is no other.
Nokton

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Athena Correct, the three religions have the same roots, but different influences. For me, I am interested in why Egypt forgot its own theology and became Muslim? Now that you pushed me to this question, I am going to have to google it. When did Egypt become Muslim?

That is a great question.


I hope you will fill us in if you find the answer.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: gr8ridejester Killing brain cells is not my idea of higher thinking. :rolleyes:

The brain cells were going to die anyway. This is just a process to weed out the weak ones.

[Isaiah]

Quote by: |Chris| Scientifically there can be no invisible man in the sky that sees everything and knows everything.

Chris, this is actually only partially correct. Science, by every definition I have seen, cannot, by definition, explore or comment upon the supernatural. And God would be, by definition, supernatural. Therefore science cannot explore or comment upon the existence of God. This is because science can only explore naturalistic causation and effects and the relationship between them.

Only the philosophical presupposition of naturalism, the believe that there is no supernatural realm, forces the hand of “science” to eliminate God.