Did God Write the Bible

[Isaiah]

Quote by: Sonart Hello, Isaiah. You're not, by any chance, the same Isaiah who used to attend the CNN/TIME boards 5 or 6 years ago, before it shut down, are you? As to your post, quoting the Bible to prove the Bible doesn't cut a lot of weight with those of us not inclined to accept it as "the word of God". I could just as easily quote the Qur'an to prove the truth of the Qur'an, but I doubt you'd give it much consideration. .

I am not the same Isaiah.

You are quite right in that it is illogical to expect those predisposed to not believe the Bible is the word of God to be persuaded by assertions from that very source. Athena expressed her opinion about the Bible and I expressed my opinion about it, although in the words I quoted.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isaiah The apostle Peter would disagree with your assertion: 2 Peter 1:16-21 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"-- and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. {So} we have the prophetic word {made} more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is {a matter} of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

And so it seems when Peter thought the thunder in the cloud was God speaking, that this was pure imagination.

[Isaiah]

Quote by: Technosoul And so it seems when Peter thought the thunder in the cloud was God speaking, that this was pure imagination.

To quote Patrick Swayze in the movie Roadhouse, "Opinions vary."

I would suggest, however, that if you are going to use stories from the Bible in support of your assertions, and then turn around and negate these sources, it would be simpler for you to make your assertions without them.

[IGX]

Human beings are the only possible writers of any book.

The writers of the Bible wrote to validate their own profession and to control the masses. To that end they've been extremely successful due to the bi-cameral nature of man's brain.

The cure for "hearing voices in one's head" is to apply objective reasoning, which leads to the conclusion: That man is the highest form of life in our universe.

[oranged]

Quote by: abub I voted for "Men who wanted to control or subject others to create social order", because I think it's the most brilliant moral compass and also the biggest burden on mankind. I believe the bible is an attempt to civilize and moralize the human race gone terribly wrong.

I agree, I think the authors had good intensions, but people don't listen to the right parts of it. I think there had only ever been one conversion that was done for good reasons, I speak of the conversion of Atilla the Hun. I don't think that it's the most brilliant moral compass, I think the writings of Hidyoshi, or maybe the Tao are.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isaiah To quote Patrick Swayze in the movie Roadhouse, "Opinions vary." I would suggest, however, that if you are going to use stories from the Bible in support of your assertions, and then turn around and negate these sources, it would be simpler for you to make your assertions without them.

I think I will just do as I wish to do - but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: IGX Human beings are the only possible writers of any book. The writers of the Bible wrote to validate their own profession and to control the masses. To that end they've been extremely successful due to the bi-cameral nature of man's brain. The cure for "hearing voices in one's head" is to apply objective reasoning, which leads to the conclusion: That man is the highest form of life in our universe.

How come humans have not yet evolved wings like the birds? How come we failed to evolve night and day vision like the cat?

Meaning - which ability would really determine the highest form of evolution? Wings, Brain, Smell, Sight, Teeth, or what?

[Jack]

That man is the highest form of life in our universe.

Well, we are the only species I know who has invented smoking pot. Maybe that's what he meant? :eek:

Human beings are the only possible writers of any book.

But I sure can't argue with that.

[gr8ridejester]

The fact of the matter is, none of us where around (alive) when these writings took place. Therefore, it is a bit complaisent to consider one's opinion as being "fact". All we have to go by is what was left behind and the traditions passed on from generation to generation. History, as we know it, was written by man an therefore can be considered fallible and correct at the same time. This is why there is so much tension between religions and people in general. Everyone thinks their version is "right" and the "truth".

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: Isherwood Well, we are the only species I know who has invented smoking pot. Maybe that's what he meant?

Killing brain cells is not my idea of higher thinking. :rolleyes:

[m3talsmith_redu]

I voted "Men who were inspired or directed by God to do so." but only because it's the closest to what I believe: it is not the whole picture.

Why? Because man decided what should be canonized in an attempt to fend itself from the attacks of other religions, and to use their joint efforts to attack other religions; primarily Judaism.

God did not tell them to form the Bible in about 10 different competing versions; each including different sets of books and so on. Man did that.

Before the Jews and Christians started competing, there were no set books in the Bible. The jews had just started gathering collections near the birth of Jesus, thousands of years after events had happened and the Jewish faith had been going. Not only that but Jews didn't rely on the written word; mainly because they had a much more rich oral tradition with more in it than what was written down. It was the Christian movements and the dispersion of the jews by the Romans that forced the jews to start writing things down and even translating the Tanakh/Torah/Talmud to Greek; which is where the Gentile Christians got their first taste of the Old Testament.

Let's not even delve too deeply into the fact that books were as scattered and as vast as you'd see them today if you just walked into a religious book store. Canonizing the Bible was a method of picking which ones went together and did not contradict each other. In other words you hold in your hands a fraction of the wealth of Christian knowledge if you are holding the King James version of the Bible for instance.

Then there's the translation of a translation of a translation aspect, which tends to magnify mistakes rather than correct them.

Also there's questions as to whether we were adding or removing to or from the scriptures by adding the New Testament, and so on.

I tell you this, I could study until I die and not know the answers to all these questions. Even if I knew Hebrew (old and new), Greek, Aramaic, Latin, French, and Egyptian, and all the localized variants, of which are all the various forms that the Bible was written in, I would still not be able to solve the questions as I would not have access to the original sources, of which most are destroyed. Nor would I be steeped in the oral traditions of the Jews or early Christians, of which was necessary to understand even the alphabet in which this was written.

You see, it's far too complex, and no scholar to date has solved a fraction of it. This debate has been going on before the reformation, and earlier. In fact the reformation was caused as an attempt to bring an understanding to this. Please, not one person, don't act like you have the absolute answer on this. As far as I'm concerned this thread would have to survive a few more centuries to even get close to understanding the magnitude of the problem.

[Chris]

I chose:

Men who wanted to control or subject others to create social order.

Makes logical sense.

[IGX]

Quote by: Technosoul How come humans have not yet evolved wings like the birds? How come we failed to evolve night and day vision like the cat? Meaning - which ability would really determine the highest form of evolution? Wings, Brain, Smell, Sight, Teeth, or what?

Man has evovled mentally, and emotionally far beyond any living creature. These attributes have allowed man's progress by fulfilling his desires.

Wings, smell, sight, and teeth are not required by man to attain wealth and happiness.

That's the way I see it.

[IGX]

Quote by: Isherwood Well, we are the only species I know who has invented smoking pot. Maybe that's what he meant? :eek: Funny. If you disagree, please enlighten me. But I sure can't argue with that.

Good thinking.

[Athena]

Quote by: |Chris| I chose: Men who wanted to control or subject others to create social order. Makes logical sense.

So do witches possessed by demons, cause illness and death make sense when your logic is based on false beliefs. I think you are capable of a better argument. The world needs an argument right now, that will stop the fighting between people of different religions. We need to ask was the Torah, written by God? This is the Jewish book that became the Old Testament. If God is speaking through Jews, how is it He stopped speaking through Jews and began speaking with through Christians? Like why didn't God just talk directly to everyone, and prevent this disagreement about religion in the first place?

Is the Koran also written by God? It is written the first person, as though God himself were speaking to the reader. This is not how the bible is written. Much of the bible is written in the third person, like a news reporter would write a story. Why would God write one book and not another? Why would God write in the third person?

Because I do a lot of writing, I know how it is to be caught up in the creative moment where time stands still and there is no hunger, just the moment and the thoughts. One feels completely inspired during such times, and can easily believe it is God providing the inspiration. Haven't others had such moments?

Some believe God still speaks to us, and speaks to our president, as the paraohs and kings had special communication with the gods. Others believe God stopped talking with humans when the bible was written. What do you believe? What would cause a God to talk to some people, and not others? Why at one time in history and not another? Why does God right now, talk with everyone and stop all this arguing?

[Chris]

Quote by: Athena So do witches possessed by demons, cause illness and death make sense when your logic is based on false beliefs.

No. Viruses and parasites cause illness and death caused by such illnesses. witches and demons are nothing more than spooky language and made up.

[Athena]

Quote by: IGX Man has evovled mentally, and emotionally far beyond any living creature. These attributes have allowed man's progress by fulfilling his desires. Wings, smell, sight, and teeth are not required by man to attain wealth and happiness. That's the way I see it.

"God is sleeping in rocks and minerals,
waking in plants and animals,
to know himself in man."

Chardin, a Catholic priest forbidden to publish because the church said his work was full of flaws. He said evolution is God's plan. Several have said, we are God's consciousness.
Humanity is the body of Christ. Everything is the manifestation of God, only the human mind has the capicity to learn and reason, and therefore be the consciousness of a God experiencing His manifestation.

[Athena]

Quote by: |Chris| No. Viruses and parasites cause illness and death caused by such illnesses. witches and demons are nothing more than spooky language and made up.

My point was logic is not fool proof. Just because something appears logical, that doesn't make it so. Do not assume everyone shares your information, and therefore, you can stop at saying something is logical.

What makes democracy so awesome, is it depends on the ability to reason. Religion does not depend on the ability to reason. Education for technology, does not depend on the ability to reason. We are in trouble today, because neither religion nor education for technology, depend on the ability to reason. The result is a rise in superstition, and using military force instead of reason to resolve problems, and believing this must be the will of God. We are now technological smart, but unwise, and this reverts civilization to its less developed stage. Arguements need reason, not just logic which can be wrong.

[Athena]

In other words you hold in your hands a fraction of the wealth of Christian if you are holding the King James version of the Bible for instance.

m3talsmith_redu

Too bad the bible was filled with information about how to do rituals and sacrifices which are not deemed essential to religion today, and neglected all the science and technlogical developments that had civilized people living a much higher standard of living than Christian Europe had for hundreds of years.

m3talsmith_redu do you believe it is demons that make us sick? The bible is the foundation of witch hunts. While European Christians were retarded by a book that held them in the past, Arabs were continuing to develop math, medicine, and astronomy, and their civilization was much more advanced than Europe's when European Christians entered the crusades. Our blessings are not from the bible, and sacrificing animals but from science.

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: Athena The world needs an argument right now, that will stop the fighting between people of different religions.

This argument you speak of is the reason these wars/conflicts are occuring. No one commented on this statement:

Quote by: gr8ridejester The fact of the matter is, none of us where around (alive) when these writings took place. Therefore, it is a bit complaisent to consider one's opinion as being "fact". All we have to go by is what was left behind and the traditions passed on from generation to generation. History, as we know it, was written by man an therefore can be considered fallible and correct at the same time. This is why there is so much tension between religions and people in general. Everyone thinks their version is "right" and the "truth".