Atheists |vs| Theists - Some Thoughts On Improving Our Dialogues

[Prometheus]

Quote by: rez so since you excecised the faults in your own logic, I must find faults in my logic?

Does anyone have a perfectly logical set of beliefs? I would think not. Suck a person would be incredebally wise. I am willing to admit that be beliefs - on all topics, not just theism - must have some errors in them. This causes me to always try to learn more, to make my beliefs and perceptions more accurate.

When you assume that you are absolutely correct, you stop learning, and start acting like you. Any person so arrogant as to assume that thier set of beliefs is perfectly correct has far too much hubrous to be able to intellegently debate.

Debate isn't about being right and winning. It's about excercizing your mind, learning more, and critically anylizing all ideas put before you, wheather you agree with them or not.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Starboy That is about the size of it. How can they debate when what they debate is something they hold sacred. And then they get bent out of shape when they discuss the sacred with those who obviously do not hold those things sacred. They hold god to be sacred and atheists see god as just another superstition and that bugs them. If that sort of thing bugs them then they should not be discussing what they hold sacred with people who do not hold it sacred. There are plenty of religion only boards where they can find many like minded people who will not attack their sacred cows. As long as Sean leaves this board open to all sides then those that hold god to be sacred would do best to avoid discussion involving god and their beliefs about god or get used to the fact that there will be those that think there belief in god is just as silly and childish as a belief in the tooth fairy. Starboy

Starboy, I for one am perfectly comfortable debating my "sacred cows". You may not have changed my mind, but when have I ever just put my foot down and said "thats just how it is". I have always been willing to discuss all aspects of theism and atheism I challenge you to find an example of me just stating a belief dogmatically and refusing to question it. You point out the illogic of religion. From a debate perspective I have agreed with you. It hasn't changed my belief, but I have been perfectly willing to debate it.

[tman_ndsu08]

What a silly debate.


It reminds me of a bunch of 2nd graders devided into two groups: group 1 says that invisible dragons do exist while group 2 argues that they don't exist. The funny thing is that neither side has any shred of proof for their position and yet they yammer away morning, noon, and night.

Ugh.

Stop wasting my air.

[Prometheus]

Obviously this debate is so silly that it is below you. You should probably never post in it again to keep it from degrading you too far.

[Isaiah]

Quote by: rez What is there to learn? You believe in God....something that only exists in your head. Keep it there...please....debate over.

If you really feel that there is nothing for you to learn on this thread (and your posts here seem to support this), or in any debate over atheism/theism, then might I suggest that you stay away from these threads.

In fact, let me take the time to remind you of the rules of this forum, which all of us, including you, agreed to adhere to. They can be found by clicking on those great cartoons or by going here (http://www.volconvo.com/forums/announcement.php?f=7):

“This site's main objective: To promote constructive debate between people with contrasting ideologies. People often think that the name implies violent debate. This is not true. The debate is "heated" because of the provocative issues, and the contrast of the opinions present. This is a not a forum for random insults, spam, etc.”

“No personal insults or attacks will be tolerated in any of the main forums: Getting too personal, by insulting fellow users, only de-rails good arguments and ruins the topic. This rule includes the use of images or text-based signatures that mean to insult or attack a fellow user. This also includes ad-hominem's. Check out these logical fallacies so you can avoid them.

Respect other opinions: If a topic does not interest you, or is “moronic” in your opinion, just avoid it and post a new topic, or respond to something else. Simply contributing to a topic to dismiss the very discussion of it will not be tolerated. That is not debate.”

In the meanwhile, this particular thread is about not WHAT we should debate but HOW we should do this and the initiator of this thread, and many else here, agree with the stated rules of this forum.

So, if you feel that you must argue by calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot rather than engaging in worthwhile debate, maybe this is not the forum for you and you should consider going elsewhere.

[rez]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 What a silly debate. It reminds me of a bunch of 2nd graders devided into two groups: group 1 says that invisible dragons do exist while group 2 argues that they don't exist. The funny thing is that neither side has any shred of proof for their position and yet they yammer away morning, noon, and night. Ugh. Stop wasting my air.

The proof is they hear God and they feel God....the proof for atheists, like me, is they have a mental disorder...

In this thread we are discussing the core reasons for disagreement among one another.


Here, it is laid out.

[James]

Quote by: rez The proof is they hear God and they feel God....the proof for atheists, like me, is they have a mental disorder... In this thread we are discussing the core reasons for disagreement among one another. Here, it is laid out.

I feel like layin out some atheists, myself.:)...sometimes!

[Sonart]

I feel like layin out some atheists, myself :) ....sometimes!

Why's that, James? Cuz they dare to disagree with you? Would you find it so amusing if someone inserted the word 'Christians' for 'atheists' in your statement?

.

[Prometheus]

It has been said on this forum... many times.

[James]

Quote by: Sonart Why's that, James? Cuz they dare to disagree with you? Would you find it so amusing if someone inserted the word 'Christians' for 'atheists' in your statement? .

Why would someone hate Christians? Oh, it must be the 'love your neighbor as yourself' thing. Right now I'd enjoy a good rumble!...SO BORED!

[Jack]

Violence as a solution to opposing ideas...gee, that's worked so well throughout history. Get a grip, folks, this is just a forum and we're just exchanging ideas. Besides, you can't reach me from there.

[Sonart]

Quote by: James Why would someone hate Christians? Oh, it must be the 'love your neighbor as yourself' thing. Right now I'd enjoy a good rumble!...SO BORED!

Yeah, right. Love your neighbor, as long as they are not atheist, gay, Jewish and any other non-Christian.

.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: James Why would someone hate Christians? Oh, it must be the 'love your neighbor as yourself' thing. Right now I'd enjoy a good rumble!...SO BORED!

So all that is required is to say "love you neighbor" and then people will flock to you. You have to practice what you preach. Many christians are biggoted, judgemental, self righteous and intolerant. You can say you love people all you want, but those behaviors speak much louder than your scriptures.

[rez]

The arguments here are pretty basic...

I have been attending Catholic school for 13 years so far and still going. The priests and teachers of my schools did a pretty damn good job of keeping me around; however, if I were to be introduced to the theists here I think I would of left already. 13 years of my parents paying LOADS and LOADS of money to Christianity. Nobody is paying any money to atheist dogma because there is none - its just a bunch of people saying "I do not hear voices in my head"

A theist can compromise and try to understand an atheist all they want, but for an atheist to try to imagine ghosts and angels is just dumb. It is a waste of time. Look, I followed your dogma for 13 years...Ive paid lots of money...what more do you people want from me?

I know you hear the word of god in your heads...its just getting a little old now I guess....

[Prometheus]

Quote by: rez The arguments here are pretty basic... I have been attending Catholic school for 13 years so far and still going. The priests and teachers of my schools did a pretty damn good job of keeping me around; however, if I were to be introduced to the theists here I think I would of left already. 13 years of my parents paying LOADS and LOADS of money to Christianity. Nobody is paying any money to atheist dogma because there is none - its just a bunch of people saying "I do not hear voices in my head" A theist can compromise and try to understand a atheist all they want, but for an atheist to try to imagine ghosts and angels is just dumb. It is a waste of time. Look, I followed your dogma for 13 years...Ive paid lots of money...what more do you people want from me?

Stay out of our threads?

[Isaiah]

Quote by: Prometheus So all that is required is to say "love you neighbor" and then people will flock to you. You have to practice what you preach. Many christians are biggoted, judgemental, self righteous and intolerant. You can say you love people all you want, but those behaviors speak much louder than your scriptures.

I, sadly, must agree with you that many Christian are not practicing what they preach and that their actions are a turn-off to anyone that might otherwise be interested in Christianity. However, I have met many fine Christians who are the type of people we would all want to be and do practice far more than preach. They have taught me kindness, forgiveness, boldness and humility (still learning all of these).

It was my choice to look at them, rather than the others that helped me to find my way. So, it depends upon one's point of view and where one chooses to take examples of the beliefs of a group. We can concentrate on the bad examples (and there are many of those for any belief or rationality system) or the good ones (also many examples if we choose to seek them out). One can profit from these encounters or one can be turned-off by them, but this is a choice either way.

There isn’t a single belief system or rational conclusion that one could be turned-off from by the examples of those who hold these views. Often times how we react/respond to someone says much more about us than it does about them.

[Jack]

It goes back to, "It's not what you say but how you say it that counts".
I fully agree with your atheistic attitude, but I can't say I agree with your approach. Respecting another's opinions has nothing to do with agreeing with it. It has everything to do with being a polite and respectful human being. And they can't teach you that in any school, it has to come from within.

[Isaiah]

Quote by: rez for an atheist to try to imagine ghosts and angels is just dumb. It is a waste of time...what more do you people want from me?...its just getting a little old now I guess....

If, indeed, you find these discussions “a waste of time” and “just dumb” and “getting a little old now” then, like Prometheus, the originator of this thread, and I think, pretty much everyone else here, might I suggest a solution to your torment…. STOP POSTING TO THEM!

Continuing to post to a thread you find idiotic is not only illogical but a grand waste of your time and ours but is is also a violation of one of the guidelines of this forum, that we all agreed to follow when we signed up: “Respect other opinions: If a topic does not interest you, or is ‘moronic’ in your opinion, just avoid it and post a new topic, or respond to something else. Simply contributing to a topic to dismiss the very discussion of it will not be tolerated. That is not debate.”

[rez]

One more time.......


Atheists |vs| Theists - Some Thoughts On Improving Our Dialogues

Atheists dont need to...I could careless if you dont follow logic and reason...

[Jack]

Well that's fine then. I don't suppose we'll be seeing any more of your posts here.
Personally, I've been interested in the dialogue between theists and atheists for some time, even to the extent of starting a blog to try and straighten out some of the misconceptions theists have of our position. Having had a fool like Madalyn Murray O'Hair as a spokesperson for so many years left theists thinking we were all like that. Which is equal to all atheists thinking Jim Bakker is a typical theist. Dialogue is important, just like any communication is important. We may not agree, but it helps if we can learn how to coexist better.