Question to Atheists

[Prometheus]

I am really not trying to criticize the atheist philosophy here - I am just curious about that world view.

My question is simply - "why not murder people?"

It seems to me, that there is not reason to keep any kind of law if you can get away with it if you are an atheist. Lets say that you could gain a great deal of money from killing someone, and are garenteed not to get caught. What keeps you from killing?

[belverron]

Not a lot. Probably enough. It would depend on the target, too.

[BaldEagle]

I do not consider myself an atheist, but I am not sure I understand the correlation. Religious persons as well as atheists commit murder. Likewise, both can have high regard for humanity.

BaldEagle

[Gorgo]

What keeps you from killing? Lots of people in prison believe in Heaven and Hell. That doesn't stop them.

I don't murder for the same reasons, probably, that you don't murder. Because I'd like to live in a peaceful society. I'd like not to be murdered, and I'd like to not have my family murdered.

[Prometheus]

True, many religious people kill people. But if they are truly religious they believe that there is some consiquence for thier actions.

If you do not believe in god, or afterlife or stuff like that. There is no consiquence under the scenario I layed out.

As far as making a less peacefull society, I don't think that really stands up. If you murder someone and no one knows, that does not contribute to your family being killed.

A high regard for humanity? If were are no more significant than any other animal, why does humanity have any value? How can you value anything except by it's direct benifit to yourself?

[fedfem]

Quote by: Prometheus I am really not trying to criticize the atheist philosophy here - I am just curious about that world view. My question is simply - "why not murder people?" It seems to me, that there is not reason to keep any kind of law if you can get away with it if you are an atheist. Lets say that you could gain a great deal of money from killing someone, and are garenteed not to get caught. What keeps you from killing?

Well murder is illegal and in society there are laws. Atheists do not need to fear imaginary consequences in order to know right from wrong. When people ask this question it is as if the only thing keeping the questioner from murdering is their religion and that is disturbing.

[Starboy]

Quote by: fedfem Well murder is illegal and in society there are laws. Atheists do not need to fear imaginary consequences in order to know right from wrong. When people ask this question it is as if the only thing keeping the questioner from murdering is their religion and that is disturbing.

Yes it is disturbing. And it is not as if it actually works either. The vast majority of people in prison are theists.

Starboy

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Starboy Yes it is disturbing. And it is not as if it actually works either. The vast majority of people in prison are theists. Starboy

And your statistic means jackshit. Most people in the US are theists.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: fedfem Well murder is illegal and in society there are laws. Atheists do not need to fear imaginary consequences in order to know right from wrong.

What meaning do the words "right" and "wrong" have from an atheist standpoint? I guess this is the crux of my question. I'm serious, I have always wondered about this. I'm not trying to make any point here or anything.

When people ask this question it is as if the only thing keeping the questioner from murdering is their religion and that is disturbing.

And the only thing keeping you from murdering is what?

[BaldEagle]

Quote by: Prometheus A high regard for humanity? If were are no more significant than any other animal, why does humanity have any value? How can you value anything except by it's direct benifit to yourself?

As I stated I am not an atheist, so I'll bow out as I can't speak for them. I do not know if this statement reflects their viewpoint. Any response I could craft would be mired in speculation and that wouldn't be fair to the debate. Although, it would probably get me in a position for everyone to beat up on me. I'll go find something I can contribute to and leave you's to go at it.

Sorry for taking this up to begin with and wasting your time.

BaldEagle

[RickSp]

Quote by: Prometheus I am really not trying to criticize the atheist philosophy here - I am just curious about that world view. My question is simply - "why not murder people?" It seems to me, that there is not reason to keep any kind of law if you can get away with it if you are an atheist. Lets say that you could gain a great deal of money from killing someone, and are garenteed not to get caught. What keeps you from killing?

Why ask stupid questions?

Is it so inconcievable to you that those who do not believe in your particular god are incapable of a meaningful moral code? I live by clear moral standards, even without your particular god looking over my shoulder, thank you very much.

Is the only reason that you don't go out and murder folks is because of the vengence of your god? What if the leaders of your religion claimed that it was god's will that you go out and murder? Would you do it? (Perhaps even committing the crime at Mountain Meadows?)

Sometimes you theists scare me.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus And your statistic means jackshit. Most people in the US are theists.

Even in proportion of the self proclaimed atheists in the general population. An atheist is 10 to 60 times less likely to be in prison than a theist. The magic doesn't appear to work.

Starboy

[belverron]

An atheist is 10 to 60 times less likely to be in prison than a theist.

That's one hell of a range.

In spite of my earlier statement, I would probably never murder. Sympathy for my fellow man prevents it. And that is also what separates man from beast in my mind. That sympathy.

[Starboy]

Quote by: belverron That's one hell of a range. In spite of my earlier statement, I would probably never murder. Sympathy for my fellow man prevents it. And that is also what separates man from beast in my mind. That sympathy.

It depends on how you determine is someone is an atheist. Self proclaimed atheists are only 2% of the general population, however as much as 27% are non-religious depending on where you get your numbers from. If you kick those into the atheist category then it bumps up the numbers.

Starboy

[Prometheus]

Quote by: RickSp Why ask stupid questions?

From the rules: If a topic does not interest you, or is “moronic” in your opinion, just avoid it and post a new topic, or respond to something else.

Is it so inconcievable to you that those who do not believe in your particular god are incapable of a meaningful moral code? I live by clear moral standards, even without your particular god looking over my shoulder, thank you very much.

I am not at all saying that it's impossible to have a moral code. That's the whole thing I'm getting at. Atheists *don't* go around murdering people. My question is why not? Where does your moral code come from? You claimn to have one and I believe you. I just want to know how it's derived.

Is the only reason that you don't go out and murder folks is because of the vengence of your god? What if the leaders of your religion claimed that it was god's will that you go out and murder? Would you do it? (Perhaps even committing the crime at Mountain Meadows?) Sometimes you theists scare me

If I didn't believe in god there's all kinds of things I would do that I don't do now. Why not? If all I've got is this lifetime without consiquences, I'd do whatever the hell I felt like and could get away with.

[fedfem]

Quote by: Prometheus I am not at all saying that it's impossible to have a moral code. That's the whole thing I'm getting at. Atheists *don't* go around murdering people. My question is why not? Where does your moral code come from? You claimn to have one and I believe you. I just want to know how it's derived. If I didn't believe in god there's all kinds of things I would do that I don't do now. Why not? If all I've got is this lifetime without consiquences, I'd do whatever the hell I felt like and could get away with.

What would you do if you didn't believe in god that you wouldn't do now? Plus, you can always do what you want and then just pray for forgiveness, right?

[RickSp]

Quote by: Prometheus I am not at all saying that it's impossible to have a moral code. That's the whole thing I'm getting at. Atheists *don't* go around murdering people. My question is why not? Where does your moral code come from? You claimn to have one and I believe you. I just want to know how it's derived. If I didn't believe in god there's all kinds of things I would do that I don't do now. Why not? If all I've got is this lifetime without consiquences, I'd do whatever the hell I felt like and could get away with.

Morality is nothing more or less than a code of conduct and ethics for dealing with other people. I don't need a mythical father figure looking over my shoulder to determine how to deal with others. My morality is simple. That which promotes life and liberty is good. That which doesn't, isn't. All else is extrapoloation.

Where did you get the idea that without your particular god, that actions in life had no consequences? All actions have consequences. That is one of the first lessons I taught my kids.

And you didn't answer my Mountain Meadows question. What would you do if your religious leaders told you to kill?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Many Atheist that I have met seem to be rather fond of the rule of law, and that prevents them from commiting crimes/murder. But I also find they are less likely to be ethical/moral by Judeo-Christian standards. Mroe likely to keep a wallet found on the side of the road for example. Because after all, the person all ready lost it, wrote off the loss. And since there is no legal ramifaction, nor any religious punishment on thier minds...

This is from personal experience and is not to say all Athiest are like that before anyone gets thier feathers in a ruffle, it's a generalization based on what I knwo from people I have met face to face.

[Jack]

Where does your moral code come from?

Empathy. Even though as an atheist I hold humans in no higher regard than I do any other lifeform, I can empathize with them as a fellow human. As an atheist, I also believe that the moral codes you ascribe to god were originally penned by men, so they're not devinly inspired, they're common sense. For that reason I can share your moral code without believing in your god. I don't kill, because I wouldn't want to be killed. And yet, in wartime, it was easier for me to justify killing to preserve my own life and those of my fellow soldiers than it was for some of my religious mates. Most atheists I know have developed their moral codes based on empathy, the common good and common sense. The "Golden Rule" can be applicable outside religion.

(And Mr. V, quit hanging around jerks. )

[Mr.Vicchio]

Hey Jerks are people too!

I disagree, I believe God did write (or dictate) much of the Bible directly or indirectly, but over time man has perverted his word and used Him for thier own selfish ends.

I am not a literal Christian, but a Spiritual Christian so I don't get too hot and bothered any more when someone goes off on the literal bible and calls it bunk/written by man.