How can I beleive in christianity when the christians cant even agree with themselves

[Jack]

I think that the Baptist denomination is in the right along with the methodist, and lutheran, and protestant

So basically what i am tryin to say is that the denominations i talked about are the right ones.

Welcome to the truth of the topic title.
And for what it's worth, "protestant" isn't a denomination. it's a term used to differentiate churches likes yours from the Catholics.

[7 Swildo 7]

Basicall y what i am sayin is that in order to be a christian you must have God in your heart. People who think that they are christians because they go to church and act good arent really christians at all. The definition of a christian according to dictionary.com is: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

Romans 10:9-13 gives a better def. of what a christian is and how to become one.

Sorry about the the whole protestant thing you are right it is not a denomination (my bad). its more of an idea

[CJFreeman]

7 Swildo 7,

Basically good works wont get you into heaven. Also i find the Catholic faith to "Showboaty" in other words what i am trying to say is that catholics put too much emphasis on having pretty looking things....like crosses that look like gold and are studded with pretty looking jewels and things.

There is a mentality that you are missing here, sir. While it is that I can see how you arrived at this idea, I don't agree that it is fitting. The Catholic Church is acting biblically by building grand churches to God replete with fine craftsmanship and artistry. Consider Solomon's temple. For a person to undershoot the biblical mandate to excellence in all things simply because they wish to appear unassuming is not exactly a humble standard, is it? It is false humility, as far as I understand.

This is where the lutheran and protestant denomination came in. They did not like how the catholic church did things back in the day because sooo much of it was against what the bible had to say. Notice protestant (protest). Look this stuff up and you will find people like Oliver Cromwell and Martin Luther (lutheran). These two guys were key players in the rebellion (w/e u wanna call it) against the catholic church.

Being a Lutheran, there is something in your quote I have to take issue with: namely, the notion that Dr. Martin Luther simply rebelled. Be careful not to water the events down so much that you dehydrate the truth from them. Dr. Luther did what was customary in his day by posting his 95 Theses (which was done, by the way, after his original 97 Theses were ignored) on the castle door at Wittenburg: he called for a debate. It would be the same as eliciting a debate here at Volconvo; that is, expected, and normal.

When Dr. Luther's theses received negative attention without the expected debates taking place, he was forced by Dr. Johannes Eck, the pre-eminent Catholic theologian of the day, to recant or be brought to trial. Dr. Luther refused to recant, from whence comes the famous phrase "here I stand; I can do no other." He was then exiled, hunted as an outlaw, and forced to live in hiding for a number of years under the protection of a noble friend in Saxony (Northern Germany).

The implicit point: Dr. Luther never intended, nor wanted to break from the Catholic Church. Hence the great reformation documents contained in The Augsburg Confession, which are a compilation of The Marburg Articles, The Torgau Articles and The Schwabach Articles. They were meant to show where Dr. Luther and friends agreed with the Catholic Church, and where they desired to see reform "in head and members." That is, from the leaders down through the laity.

It was not a rebellion so much as an unfortunate chasing out of a theologian. If you want to note a purely rebellious group, you might consider the Anabaptists (Mennonites, Brethren In Christ, etc.). Theirs is a history beginning entirely in rebellion and immaturity.

Cheers!
Christopher J. Freeman

[Starboy]

Quote by: 7 Swildo 7 Basicall y what i am sayin is that in order to be a christian you must have God in your heart. People who think that they are christians because they go to church and act good arent really christians at all. The definition of a christian according to dictionary.com is: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Romans 10:9-13 gives a better def. of what a christian is and how to become one. Sorry about the the whole protestant thing you are right it is not a denomination (my bad). its more of an idea

And you make the point again. That there are all these denominations that can't agree on what it means to be a Christian.

Starboy

[7 Swildo 7]

im just sayin what the bible says about getting to heaven. And it is not through good works (what Catholics believe). And you are right Starboy its was not a rebellion with the martin luther issue ( sorry that was my bad) but the point i was making was that he still was against some of the things the Catholic church did.

[Starboy]

Quote by: 7 Swildo 7 im just sayin what the bible says about getting to heaven. And it is not through good works (what Catholics believe). And you are right Starboy its was not a rebellion with the martin luther issue ( sorry that was my bad) but the point i was making was that he still was against some of the things the Catholic church did.

And that point reinforces the claim of the opening post. That for something that everyone is convinced is the truth there sure do appear to be a lot of versions of it.

Starboy

[CJFreeman]

Quote by: Starboy And that point reinforces the claim of the opening post. That for something that everyone is convinced is the truth there sure do appear to be a lot of versions of it. Starboy

It is wise to not confuse "version" with "expression."

Christopher J. Freeman

[Starboy]

Quote by: CJFreeman It is wise to not confuse "version" with "expression." Christopher J. Freeman

Oh, by that I assume that you think that all "expressions" of Christianity are the same? That everyone that self identifies as a Christian is as Christian as anyone else?

Starboy

[CJFreeman]

Quote by: Starboy Oh, by that I assume that you think that all "expressions" of Christianity are the same?

I'm sure you can answer that one on your own, Starboy; it doesn't take a brilliant mind to see the implicit illogic of your question.

That everyone that self identifies as a Christian is as Christian as anyone else?

As above.

Christopher J. Freeman

[Starboy]

Freeman, why do you lack the honesty to answer the question?

Starboy

[The Rock]

Sorry to interrupt your expressive conversation, but, as was earlier stated, many "versions" are quite similar. The rest, for the most part, were formed as a result of What I prefer to call "One Lining", Which is founding an entire belief on a small passage of scripture not taken in context, or even a false document made up by some random man. Ex. Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, Unitarians, Etc.
If You are a member of any denomination I Afore mentioned, I apologize for the bluntness, and I'm not condemning anyone, Just making a point.

[Jack]

I wonder how the Baptists will feel about the idea that they're simply expressing their christianity differently than the Catholics and the Mormons? I don't believe any of those groups consider the other christian by their own standards.

[CJFreeman]

Quote by: Starboy Freeman, why do you lack the honesty to answer the question? Starboy

I'm not refusing to answer honestly; I don't think the question is honest.

Christopher J. Freeman

[The Rock]

Well, Speaking for the Baptists (Southern Baptists anyway, VERY different, you know), we believe that if you've accepted Jesus into your heart, you're saved regardless of how you express your faith.

[CJFreeman]

Quote by: Isherwood I wonder how the Baptists will feel about the idea that they're simply expressing their christianity differently than the Catholics and the Mormons? I don't believe any of those groups consider the other christian by their own standards.

Well, truth be told, Mormons are not considered Christian by mainline Christians. They are considered a cult. Nevertheless, I'm sure they think we've got it backwards, too; at the very least, incomplete.

There are ignorant Baptists out there that consider Catholics non-Christian. By and large, however, most denominations agree on the fundamental details of what a Christian is. So when you get down to brass tacks, the core beliefs are the same, but the details on traditions and modes differ.

Christopher J. Freeman

[Starboy]

Quote by: The Rock Sorry to interrupt your expressive conversation, but, as was earlier stated, many "versions" are quite similar. The rest, for the most part, were formed as a result of What I prefer to call "One Lining", Which is founding an entire belief on a small passage of scripture not taken in context, or even a false document made up by some random man. Ex. Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, Unitarians, Etc. If You are a member of any denomination I Afore mentioned, I apologize for the bluntness, and I'm not condemning anyone, Just making a point.

That is a good point. It is not the beliefs that the many "versions" share that make them different. It is the beliefs that they do not share that make them different. As to what those are and how they came by them that is another discussion. But it is a very colorful and dishonest history.

Starboy

[Starboy]

Quote by: CJFreeman I'm not refusing to answer honestly; I don't think the question is honest. Christopher J. Freeman

I have heard of a dishonest answer, but that is a new one. A dishonest question. And how is a question dishonest? It is usually the case that people who do not want to answer questions have something to hide. In a debate it can only be one thing. And that is you have no argument.

Starboy

[7 Swildo 7]

Everyone here knows that many many people change the bible around to fit their lifestyle. For example I know of a homosexual church nearby who teaches that homosexuality is right. they change the bible to justify their lifestyle. However i have never changed the bible for anything. My denomination takes everything straight from God's Holy word. Maybe you should listen to those who don't attempt to change everything about christianity to fit their lifestyle. Listen to those who change their lifestyle to fit what God wants.

[Jack]

Those who claim to read the Bible as the literal word of God must be asked if they support enforcing all the laws of the Old Testament. Leviticus 20:13 commands that male homosexuals be put to death. Deuteronomy 22 orders death by stoning for a man and woman who commit adultery. Leviticus 15:16-24 makes those who touch semen and menstrual blood ritually unclean. Moreover, prostitution is not condemned but taken for granted in Genesis 38:12-19 and Joshua 2:1-7. And polygamy and concubinage (an unmarried woman living with a man) are regularly practiced in the Old Testament. Therefore, a Christian who advocates a literal reading of scripture should: support capital punishment for male homosexual acts and also for adultery, require Old Testament purification rituals for those who touch semen or menstrual blood, and sanction prostitution, polygamy and concubines.

[7 Swildo 7]

Yes but the bible also states such thinsg as love they neighbor as thyself. We are to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Jesus would not have people stoned. Instead he would protect them and say something like: those who are not giulty of sin may cast the first stone. Maybe (based ons ome of what you are saying) that is why most of what i learn comes fromthe New Testament and not the Old. We spend very little time focusing on the Old testament.