How can I beleive in christianity when the christians cant even agree with themselves

[Locutus]

Inquisitor, the more you talk the more you prove my point. You are naming so many others as heretics including the Catholics, your opinions are your busines but yet again we have a christian labeling other faiths as herecy. What would they say to this, maybe someone will call you a heretic for their own reasons. Like I said, your opiniopns and decisions as to who is a heretic is based on your enterpretation of the bible and your views as to what christianity is. Can't you see your post itself validates my point. All of the points you addressed respond on the assumption that your definition of christianity is correct, Now I can just hear your response now and quoting the bible to show me how to define christianity. But the fact is you just labeled half the planets christians as heretics. I assume you are just a normal person like me, but I wonder what you would do if you had the opinions you do, but lived many years ago and had the power of life and death over millions, would you mobilise your army and start killing Catholics becuse your beleif labels them as heretics. this is the very thinking that I am talking about. You epitomise it. Yet, i will bet, like all the others before you you are unable to see it.

[Prometheus]

You can talk about a "technical" definition of herecy, but that gives no more credance to the catholic interpritation of christianity than any other.

[Flip Jackson]

Sorry to throw this in so late in the post, but I heard someone say that Mormons would be heretics. I assume a Catholic said this, because the Protestants broke from them. I feel the need to point out that Mormons have no historical connection to Catholics, so I don't see how we could be considred heretics to any other Christain faith. Different beliefs maybe.

About the dark skin curse. We don't use that to raise white people up. It is merely an explanation. Its not as if we feel dark skinned people today are responsible for anything of the past. We encourage people not to look at race. Ever. Prejudice accomplishes nothing.

[Starboy]

Hey Flip, don't feel bad about being a heretic. For almost every supernatural religion on the planet atheists are some kinds of infidel, heretic, blasphemer, devil worshipper or whatever. Just so happens for most of those same religions you have a similar classification. We only differ in regards to your particular religion.

Starboy

[Athena]

The thoughts expressed here, better explain Christian offensiveness than the thread for this purpose. Keep in mind this religion includes Jews and Muslims. They are all God of Abraham religions. These people fighting with each other is a children in a large family fighting with each other. They all have the same Father sky God. The origin stories come from Sumer.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Athena The thoughts expressed here, better explain Christian offensiveness than the thread for this purpose. Keep in mind this religion includes Jews and Muslims. They are all God of Abraham religions. These people fighting with each other is a children in a large family fighting with each other. They all have the same Father sky God. The origin stories come from Sumer.

Maybe you should bring this up in the "Jesus is the most important event..." thread. Abraham is the crux of the major religions, and therefore the resulting violence and political upheaval.

[Inquisitor]

Isherwood What I am saying is that your statement, "Majority of people who refer to themselves as christians are in fact not Christians." answers the question in the topic title. Christians do not agree among themselves what constitues a Christian. It's your opinion that those other groups are not, but to those of us outside all your groups, you are indeed similar yet constantly at war among yourselves over who's orthodoxy is the right one. And since you all lay claim to absolute truth, in the end it appears none of you truly posses it.

Your question contains the answer in itself. Whose orthodoxy is right? Orthodox's orthodoxy obviously. For anyone who make an effort to study the actual history of Christianity would find that The Orthodox Church preserved Christianity in its purest and original form. All others who refer to themselves as christians have perverted the original teaching to various degrees.
Let us put some logical thought into it. Who should we believe ?The Church that was founded by The Saviour himself, whose dogma was developed by apostles and people they choose to succeed them, The Church that was build on blood of many thousands of martyrs, that produced many thousans of saints. Or should we believe fantasy of some individuals especialy when The Christ himself warned us about them:
Mt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Locutus Inquisitor, the more you talk the more you prove my point. You are naming so many others as heretics including the Catholics, your opinions are your busines but yet again we have a christian labeling other faiths as herecy.

I am not as bald as to decide what constitutes a heresy. I place my trust in people wno knew better - saints.

Prometheus You can talk about a "technical" definition of herecy, but that gives no more credance to the catholic interpritation of christianity than any other

Correct, ever since catholics made changes to "The Symbol of Faith" they become heretics. Let alone their heresy of primacy.

Flip Jackson Sorry to throw this in so late in the post, but I heard someone say that Mormons would be heretics. I assume a Catholic said this, because the Protestants broke from them. I feel the need to point out that Mormons have no historical connection to Catholics, so I don't see how we could be considred heretics to any other Christain faith. Different beliefs maybe.

30,000 fulltime missionaries. This is the only thing that keeps mormons in business. Because mormonism is a cult, it exists to make money. Frankly I feel very sorry for all decieved.

Athena The thoughts expressed here, better explain Christian offensiveness than the thread for this purpose. Keep in mind this religion includes Jews and Muslims. They are all God of Abraham religions. These people fighting with each other is a children in a large family fighting with each other. They all have the same Father sky God. The origin stories come from Sumer.

I disagree firmly. I am a spiritual child of Jesus. Jews on the other hand are children of the devil Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, so please don't make these unfounded assumptions.

[Lilith]

Quote by: Inquisitor he Church that was founded by The Saviour himself, whose dogma was developed by apostles and people they choose to succeed them, The Church that was build on blood of many thousands of martyrs, that produced many thousans of saints. Or should we believe fantasy of some individuals especialy when The Christ himself warned us about them:

Jesus founded a chruch? It's always been my understanding that Christianity came about after his death. Several years after his death, to be exact. Maybe I missed something.

Jews are children of the devil? Now that's a brillant remark. *rolls eyes*

[Jack]

Inquisitor, you have to be pulling our legs. No one could possibly be so religiously xenophobic, could they?
First of all, which Orthodox church; Greek, Russian, Coptic Orthodox church of Egypt...which one has the ultimate truth by your standards.
Lilith has already mentioned that it was Paul and Peter who started churches, not Jesus.

I am not as bald as to decide what constitutes a heresy.

Internal contradiction:

And again you fail to differentiate between Christianity and numerous heresies that hide behind the name of "christians". Chances are you have hardly even come accross true Christians. America is not a country where there are many nor is Australia.

But please, do tell us more. I find your unique take on religion fascinating, and you provide a ton of debate points in every post.

[Inquisitor]

Lilith Jesus founded a chruch? It's always been my understanding that Christianity came about after his death. Several years after his death, to be exact. Maybe I missed something.

For sure you have.
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This is what The Holy Scripture says.

Jews are children of the devil? Now that's a brillant remark. *rolls eyes*

Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This is for you as you obviously are spiritualy blind and see not what is happenning around you.

[Lilith]

That's the whole point, Inquisitor. You are quoting passages from *Gospels* that were written by men after Jesus' death. And it's debatable if the Gospels were written by the actual apostles themselves and I'm sure it can be argued if the actual *words* of Jesus were really his.

[Inquisitor]

Isherwood Inquisitor, you have to be pulling our legs. No one could possibly be so religiously xenophobic, could they? First of all, which Orthodox church; Greek, Russian, Coptic Orthodox church of Egypt...which one has the ultimate truth by your standards. Lilith has already mentioned that it was Paul and Peter who started churches, not Jesus.

I amnot xenophobic. I believe that any Orthodox Christian regardless of nationality is my brother in Christ, be it Greek, Russian, Serbian etc. Yes all Oethodox Churches you listed are Orthodox. Russian Orthodox Church of course is the biggest. Why do you think jews, atheists and other servants of the devil worked so hard to overthrow Russian Monarchy? Because Orthodoxy is their main enemy.

But please, do tell us more. I find your unique take on religion fascinating, and you provide a ton of debate points in every post.

Isn't it sad that in todays world, the truth is "unique" and " fascinating". Frankly all I say about religion is not my fantasies but The Dogma of The Holy Orthodox Church. And I repeat again I believe thousands saints and martyrs rather than some individuals of questionable integrity. But of course God gave us all free will, you make you own choise as to whom you want to believe. Ultimately you have to believe someone. Even hardcore atheists claim they believe science, the problem is they often confuse science which is facts with science which is interpretatation of the facts.

[Inquisitor]

Lilith That's the whole point, Inquisitor. You are quoting passages from *Gospels* that were written by men after Jesus' death. And it's debatable if the Gospels were written by the actual apostles themselves and I'm sure it can be argued if the actual *words* of Jesus were really his.

Lilith, I hope you understand that The Holy Scripture was produced by The Holy Tradition of The Church. The Holy Tradition is collective experience of believers. There are many books written by Saint Fathers, they expand and interpret on what is written in The Holy Scripture. Their lives and deaths confirmed, they were people worth listening to.

[Jack]

He said he would build his church (future tense) not that he had (present tense). Due to foreseen circumstances, he never got around to that. Paul, Peter and the rest, after hiding out for a while, spent the next 60 years doing that for him.

[Jack]

Why do you think jews, atheists and other servants of the devil worked so hard to overthrow Russian Monarchy?

Well, this particular atheist, along with my Jewish, Catholic, Wicken, Orthodox and assorted other brothers and sisters in the U.S. military in the 1970's were out to overthrow the Russian government (the monarchy was brought down by the Russians themselves earlier) because they had a lot of guns, big bombs that could take out half the world, and they wanted to kill us. Obviously, we wanted to kill them first. It had absolutely nothing to do with religion.

[Athena]

Quote by: Isherwood Well, this particular atheist, along with my Jewish, Catholic, Wicken, Orthodox and assorted other brothers and sisters in the U.S. military in the 1970's were out to overthrow the Russian government (the monarchy was brought down by the Russians themselves earlier) because they had a lot of guns, big bombs that could take out half the world, and they wanted to kill us. Obviously, we wanted to kill them first. It had absolutely nothing to do with religion.

No it wasn't religion, it was Bush senior in the CIA and his lies that lead to the above statement.

[Athena]

Quote by: Inquisitor Lilith, I hope you understand that The Holy Scripture was produced by The Holy Tradition of The Church. The Holy Tradition is collective experience of believers. There are many books written by Saint Fathers, they expand and interpret on what is written in The Holy Scripture. Their lives and deaths confirmed, they were people worth listening to.

That is correct, people worth listening to not, not God writing the bible.

[Jack]

it was Bush senior in the CIA and his lies that lead to the above statement.

Is there another thread where this sort of thing is being discussed? I have some interest, and first-hand experience, in the matter.

[Flip Jackson]

Starboy, I find myself along your line of thinking as of late. It almost scares me. Many people find Mormons as heretics, and I often find it funny as I am sure you do. I actually don't mind too much though.

Inquisitor, I don't know how you support your statements on Mormons. First, the missionaries aren't what keep the church alive. They help spread it, but if people didn't like the massage, then no one would join, and those who did join, wouldn't stay long. The church stays alive because of the doctrine, not the missionaries.
Second, I don't know how you can call us a cult. I have never experienced anything even remotely cultish. We believe in a modern prophet, but if you beleive the scripturesa, then that shouldn't be such a bizarre idea. We by know means worship him or follow him blindly. Nor do we give him all our money. You will have to expound on what you mean.
Third, I almost laughed when you said the Mormon church was all abouy money. I have never heard anything sillier. You don't seem to realize that no one in the church is paid. Every office is volunteer work, because we feel it is right. No priest, bishop, apostle, or leader of any kind gets a penny. Any money we pay at all goes into the church or less fortunate people. All donations go 100% to the cause it supports. If we give oney so that kids in third world countries can go to college, then all that money goes to that project. Our church gets none of it. I have no idea what makes you think we are wbout the money.

[Starboy]

But Flip, Inquisitor and all the rest that think you are a heretic justifies their assessment the same way as you would justify a Voodoo priestess as being some sort of devil worshiper. From where I sit when it comes to the supernatural one is as good as another and all supernaturalists are equally convinced of the reality of their supernatural world. It would be rip roaring hilarious if all these supernaturalists were not in the process of making hell on earth with all their supernatural claims and posturing.

Starboy