Is Materialism still immoral?

[MerlinsByte]

It is not as if Jesus talked all that much about the work ethic. I would say that his message was somewhat the opposite.Starboy

Merlin writes....Jesus did speak about the work ethic and paying taxes etc.

Nice to have a kindred spirit. I've just been waiting for someone to say "money is the root of all evil" so I can spring the rest of the argument.

You might want to read your bible a bit more attentively Mr. Prom. One small word changes the entire meaning of the phrase that you misquote.


For the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.

GID (God the intelligent designer) bless you all

; } >

mb

[Starboy]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Merlin writes....Jesus did speak about the work ethic and paying taxes etc.

What one maybe two sentences tops? And telling people to give Caesar his due is not exactly an exhortation to get out there and work. I also find it funny how yet again you manage to talk out of both sides of your mouth but posting something to refute that Jesus was not for a work ethic and then stating the money is the root of all evil. Maybe someday your god will teach you honesty.

Starboy

[MerlinsByte]

What one maybe two sentences tops?

Merlin writes...Re read your bible I'm not going to do your homework for you. What do you consider work? Jesus was telling us to pay our taxes, you must work to do that. He was a carpenter. He was murdered in his early thirties. His real work changed the world, something we should all strive for.

by starboy...and then stating the money is the root of all evil.

REREAD MY POST YOUR HATE IS BLINDING YOU......THE L-O-V-E

L O V E..............LUVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

of money is the root of all evil. If you would calm down think before you type your embarresment factor might not be so high.

get some glasses my friend



mb

[castille]

Quote by: Technosoul However I personally could not put a dent in the starvaton problems happening in 3rd world countries, no matter how simplistic or non-materialistic I lived my life in order to send money off to food relief organizations.

No, but you could save hundreds of lives, yet you don't choose to.

On the other hand if we had three baskets of fish and only needed to eat one or two fishes - why let the rest go to waste?

I agree. So instead of spending money on the Internet or on coffee, why don't you give all that excess to some Ethiopian kid?

Hmmmm?

Instead of humming and feeling sorry for the poor over a glass of champagne, wouldn't it be more constructive to actually help them?

[mr.perfecto]

Are you asking thoses questions from more of a philosophical stance, or do they actually reflect your personal beliefs?

[MerlinsByte]

by castille...Instead of humming and feeling sorry for the poor over a glass of champagne, wouldn't it be more constructive to actually help them?

mb...Most churches have humanitarian missions, Most Christians tithe. What do most secular atheists, and their organizations do?

We all dont need a guilt trip from God to help each other. I realize that there must be somewhere seculars and atheists and secular atheists that give to the poor and to humanitarian interests. A 10% biblical figure is a good starting point.

I wonder if that 10% fig. is gross or net?

MB

[castille]

Quote by: mr.perfecto Are you asking thoses questions from more of a philosophical stance, or do they actually reflect your personal beliefs?

I'm asking these questions for Technosoul, who claims that we have to even out the income to make sure everybody in the world earns the same.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: castille No, but you could save hundreds of lives, yet you don't choose to. I agree. So instead of spending money on the Internet or on coffee, why don't you give all that excess to some Ethiopian kid? Instead of humming and feeling sorry for the poor over a glass of champagne, wouldn't it be more constructive to actually help them?

Actually if what you suggest was in effect realistically I would be one of those people who would have to accept the help of others, being that my present economics is below standard. I just got my eviction notice for unpaid back rent and I owe the IRS thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes, and I had to recycle some cans to buy my last can of coffee which in my perspective is not wasted expendature. The internet is not a wasted expendature because it allows one to honestly communicate with people around the globe and so that is a first step towords universal understanding and potential world peace.

So I guess I am not hypocritical relative to even the finest moral standards one could imagine - relative to the love of money.

However I do not need the morality of others or a tin cup to survive, not even hope. To have faith in such things would surely be my doom. Nor do I have to rob and steal to get by.

Throughout my lifetime experience as a rolling stone that gather's no moss, I have tested the message "it's alright". You might not always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need". So why worry? Does a bird worry about what it will have to wear tomorrow? Nope - it gets free feathers.

You can make it if you try - which concept is also called self confidence and a belief in the furits of trying and fainting not. A simple prescription for the woes of the world. The true meaning of rightousness is to gain a right relationship with that self that has the right attitude - so hear this saying; Right attitudes are the roots for this tree of life (and for living the life). That is my message which I am communicating via the internet on a global scale - reaching ever corner of the technologically connected landscape.

Now you will always have the poor among you, but this internet connection will be here only for a short while, and when it is gone it is gone - and so let the world be on its own, so they can also discover the inner connection to right attitude - so that those roots can support the tree.

Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Technosoul Actually if what you suggest was in effect realistically I would be one of those people who would have to accept the help of others, being that my present economics is below standard. I just got my eviction notice for unpaid back rent and I owe the IRS thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes, and I had to recycle some cans to buy my last can of coffee which in my perspective is not wasted expendature. The internet is not a wasted expendature because it allows one to honestly communicate with people around the globe and so that is a first step towords universal understanding and potential world peace. So I guess I am not hypocritical relative to even the finest moral standards one could imagine - relative to the love of money. However I do not need the morality of others or a tin cup to survive, not even hope. To have faith in such things would surely be my doom. Nor do I have to rob and steal to get by. Throughout my lifetime experience as a rolling stone that gather's no moss, I have tested the message "it's alright". You might not always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need". So why worry? Does a bird worry about what it will have to wear tomorrow? Nope - it gets free feathers. You can make it if you try - which concept is also called self confidence and a belief in the furits of trying and fainting not. A simple prescription for the woes of the world. The true meaning of rightousness is to gain a right relationship with that self that has the right attitude - so hear this saying; Right attitudes are the roots for this tree of life (and for living the life). That is my message which I am communicating via the internet on a global scale - reaching ever corner of the technologically connected landscape. Now you will always have the poor among you, but this internet connection will be here only for a short while, and when it is gone it is gone - and so let the world be on its own, so they can also discover the inner connection to right attitude - so that those roots can support the tree. Technosoul.

PS - hey, I am starting to sound like that Other guy - e-gads - u all better call in the phychologists with their stright jackets - I am having way too much fun.

Technosoul.

[castille]

Quote by: Technosoul being that my present economics is below standard. I just got my eviction notice for unpaid back rent and I owe the IRS thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes, and I had to recycle some cans to buy my last can of coffee which in my perspective is not wasted expendature.

But you're better off than 75% of people in the world, who can't even afford food, much less coffee and a house.

The internet is not a wasted expendature because it allows one to honestly communicate with people around the globe and so that is a first step towords universal understanding and potential world peace.

So you've never used the Internet for entertainment? Ever?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: castille But you're better off than 75% of people in the world, who can't even afford food, much less coffee and a house. So you've never used the Internet for entertainment? Ever?

So is coffee and entertainment acts of immorality? And if so, is that sense of morality no longer valid within our new cultural idealism? That was my question - you should give the answer and not ask me my own question.

Now if someone wants a cup of coffee from my coffee pot, or if a bum asks me for a cigarette - I will share what I got. No problem and no 2nd thoughts. But I am not trying to take the higher ground here, or to suggest that I am more moral then the rest of you all.

And I used to like to share my music (entertainment) at file sharing sites - with the rest of the world, but Ashcroft made that all unlawful - he called "giving" free music to the needy a crime and interpreted it as "shoplifting". So now I am forced under law not to share my music collection - and to be immoral in that respect.

Technosoul.

[Capt Lee]

Materialism is induced as a "want" by marketing and is emotional (fear) based. Marketing is the same as brain washing. You have to leave reality to believe you need "wants". You leave reality when you become your own god. and that was the original sin.

[dindada]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Materialism and morals are seperate, personal choices.

i wholeheartedly agree.

[Technosoul]

Well, in four to six weeks from now I must move out due to that eviction notice. But then by random chance some real estate lady dropped by looking for people who wanted to sell their property, well, my moblehome is too run down to be worth anything I told her & I rent the space it is on. But I was offered a deal, she would pay all my back rent in order to void out the eviction notice, once that was done via me she would have the right to buy the rental property the moblehome sits on, which is a good investment for her real estate company, she then got a buyer for the property. The new buyer wants to put a new moble home on this site. The moble home I am now in will be donated to a missionary group in Mexico and moved down there to help out some other poor smoe. In addition I would be paid an additonal 10 thousand dollars at close of escrow. Plus in advance of that $10 they will also pay the first months rent to the landlord of the next place I rent. Although she will make a fancy profit she is sharing some of that profit to help me out and that missionary group via her local church. Compassion in action. We are now making applications to be team managers at a apartment complex and/or a self storage business - that is where you get low rent and a paycheck for managing property - which we have background experience in doing - live on site manager.

So I get to donate my home to the homeless and get to earn 10 thousand as middleman in the sale of someone else's property and will have fun meeting the unknown challenges of a moving experience to some other location.

And lucky for some posters here I will be busy for a while and so I will have some computer down time ahead.

Technosoul.

[Livemike]

Quote by: Samildanach That depends largely on how you produce it. If it is by taking advantage of your fellow man then it is not moral at all.

Well no it doesn't matter how you produce it if you genuinely produce wealth. Those that actually produce wealth benefit everyone they deal with in the process. We know this because the act of producing wealth is the act of creating more value than you get from other people. The concept of "taking advantage of your fellow man" is strange, don't we all do that except for hermits?

[Jack]

Congrat, Technosoul, on coming out of all that on the plus side. I wish you well in your enjoyment of your own materialism. 8-)

[Livemike]

Quote by: Starboy What one maybe two sentences tops? And telling people to give Caesar his due is not exactly an exhortation to get out there and work. I also find it funny how yet again you manage to talk out of both sides of your mouth but posting something to refute that Jesus was not for a work ethic and then stating the money is the root of all evil. Maybe someday your god will teach you honesty. Starboy

There is some confusion about the whole "render unto Caesar" thing. It's possible
that he was saying "You don't have to pay any taxes to Caesar" but was deliberately
ambiguous so that he didn't end up in trouble with the authorities, and he didn't... for
a while.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Livemike There is some confusion about the whole "render unto Caesar" thing. It's possible that he was saying "You don't have to pay any taxes to Caesar" but was deliberately ambiguous so that he didn't end up in trouble with the authorities, and he didn't... for a while.

Hey I agree with you. My read of Jesus based on the words that were attributed to have come out of his mouth and not the interpretations of others is that if he were alive today he would be called a hippy bum and hardly considered a good example of much of anything.

Starboy

[Athena]

Quote by: Livemike Well no it doesn't matter how you produce it if you genuinely produce wealth. Those that actually produce wealth benefit everyone they deal with in the process. We know this because the act of producing wealth is the act of creating more value than you get from other people. The concept of "taking advantage of your fellow man" is strange, don't we all do that except for hermits?

Absolutely not! Want an offensive thing to say. Until 1958 public education promoted the idea that being nice is more important than being rich, and that people who do have more than others, are obliged to give more than others. The culture that was promoted by public education, and what the capitalism our government is promoting today, are extreme opposites. Wealth in the hands of a few, is nothing like wealth distributed, and our economy would have never have been so good, if it had not been for the distribution of wealth.

Henery Ford provided his workers high enough wages to purchases the cars they were producing, before the Great Depression. Things went bad during the Great Depression and Ford stopped being a friend to the laborers. However, up to that point, other than dehumanizing people for the sake of production, Ford contributed to the greater economy, buy producing relatively low priced cars, meaning more people could buy them. Because many people were able to buy cars, a huge industry revolving around cars and traveling developed.

Had Ford, instead, manufactured cars only for the rich, the development of the the car, gas, travel industries would have remained retarded, and the nature at large would not of great economic growth. This goes for all industries. If they cater to the rich, sure on the books we will see an increase in wealth, but because the wealth is not distributed, it will be less wealth than when the wealth is distributed. Oh, the History of the American Bank is another wonderful story of greatly improving the the economy by distributing wealth. We are now concentrating wealth and this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

[Athena]

I have got to scream! In looking back on other post to this thread, the standard of moral appears to be Jesus, and if buying coffee and spending money on entertainment is immoral? What chance does a democracy have with people who think like this? The understanding of morality that is the foundation of democracy, is understanding how things work. Distributing wealth generates more wealth than accumulating in a few hands.
Distributing wealth increases the standard of living for everyone and keeps citizens happy.
It is perceived as justice and liberty for all, so it works.

If Jesus would enjoy drinking coffee, is a question that will not help us very much. This is one of the things wrong with Christianity. It has taken the place of what people in a democracy need to understand.