" What makes people shitty?"

[Athena]

I am moving this subject from the politics. What we believe about " What makes people shitty?" surely influences our politics, but the question requires a philosophical examination. I hope people share their ideas about what makes people shitty, and then I will share an idea about how we can make living together more pleasant. It kind of has something to do with democracy, and the philosophy behind it.

[castille]

People are naturally shitty.

[tinybear]

I disagree. People are, by and large, born naturally nice. But the trouble with life is, shit happens. That's when people become shitty.

[castille]

I disagree with your disagreement. People's emotions lead to shittness. Computers don't get shitty, even though they have to deal with shit all the time.

Also niceness can't exist without shittiness.

[tinybear]

You mean you think people are born nasty?

[castille]

No, people are born with emotions which lead to nastiness.

[tinybear]

All people are born with emotions. So all people eventually become nasty. Gee, that really cheers me up!

[belverron]

Because people become set in their ways--rigid--and clash with one another. Only a community can breed shittiness :p

[mr.perfecto]

Well, actually it is the result of our modern obession with constant activity. Which in turn leads to a disruption of the natural human diurnal cycle. This sub-optimal allotment of activities is frequently associated with a sour demeanor, a rapid loss of composure and civility, and ultimately violent behavior.

The most efficent cure for this is most likely force medication by distributing it through the water system or through helicopters equipped with special guns capable of spreading it in a precise pattern. Since this is likely to upset the more suspicious portion of our citizenry, this may be a problem that we will all just have to learn to live with.

[Samildanach]

Sleep...sleep cures shittiness. In fact good sleep cures most forms of emotional disturbance.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Samildanach Sleep...sleep cures shittiness. In fact good sleep cures most forms of emotional disturbance.

Sleep is good for many things. I have always mantained that you only go through life once, you must get all the sleep you can. (Its a joke.)

Starboy

[Autolykos]

People aren't shitty or nice. People are people. It's *other people* who decide whether one is being "nice" or "shitty". And those terms mean different things to different people.

What we basically have is a whole bunch of *different* people going about their lives and interacting with one another. Because of these differences, though, not everyone will get along - sometimes the differences will be considered too great to overcome. Sad, perhaps, but true. Ultimately, though, nothing can be done about it, because people can't change other people - they can only change themselves. When they try to change other people anyway, things generally turn out even worse.

With that being said, Athena, I'm interested to hear your ideas. :)

- Rob

[lsbskins1]

Shittiness is caused by people who don't agree with everything I say. If everyone would just agree with me, I would be alot happier, in the end they would be happier and we would all move into a blissful state of perfect harmony in which even zebras and lions would peacefully share the plains. Is that so hard to believe?

Or...
Shittiness is cause by the id. We instinctively know that we have to fight to survive, the id being the engine of that drive. If I don't kick you in the shins, you might pull me from my mothers breast, causing me to starve. In kicking you, I aroused your id, which tells you that you must protect yourself from this irrational child, so the level of certain chemicals rise in your body, inducing fight or flight responses, and since I am only a child and there is no need to fly, you fight. And we were just nasty to each other.

[kingjust]

IMO, we are born innocent and naive, knowing nothing of the world and how to act. Then all of the traditions and family values are forced down our throats, changing us to the shitty people that we are today. Why are we shitty, well...where ever the shittiness started, it has past the test of time and the shitty values have been passed down through out families upon families. This is almost like a god question!

But today's day in age, people are shitty because they don't have/get/feel/etc... everything that our selfish asses want. So we act shitty to others for not being able to fulfill our shitty selfishness. Hey, that's the answer,....selfishness <-- it's the root of all shittiness!! LOL

[tman_ndsu08]

I think people do learn to be shitty, but are born with higher or lower probabilities that, given circumstances, they will learn to be shitty.

[Athena]

How about this? Before I found these discussions, I was into another discussion group where meaningful discussion was impossible, because everyone was acting like dogs fighting over bones. Their biggest pleasure was not expanding their minds, but tear each other apart. I was too busy trying to defend myself and protect myself from the next attack, to actually think about what I was thinking. It was constantly like being in the middle of a dog fight, and I found myself driven to find ways to shoot others down, meaning I was reducing myself to their level.

There is very little of that here. Here I feel like I am with people who are actually trying to use their minds, and who demonstrating quite a bit of respect for each other.

Freud divided our minds into 3 parts, id, ego and superego. Or in transactional analysis, child, adult, parent. That is our id is equal to our emotional, demanding child, with learning held in the subconscious. The superego is our parents, teachers and others who influenced us, and is excessively demanding of us to be perfect, whatever that meant to our teachers. Adult- is the referee between id and superego, and between ourselves and society at large, or nature.

Democracy as a culture that makes liberty possible, depends on our ability to reason, but unless trained, and exercised, that is the weakest part of our being. We are born with potential to be anything, and what we become depends on what influences us. I very much appreciate the monitor who brings out the best in us in these discussions.

[Athena]

Quote by: Autolykos People aren't shitty or nice. People are people. It's *other people* who decide whether one is being "nice" or "shitty". And those terms mean different things to different people. What we basically have is a whole bunch of *different* people going about their lives and interacting with one another. Because of these differences, though, not everyone will get along - sometimes the differences will be considered too great to overcome. Sad, perhaps, but true. Ultimately, though, nothing can be done about it, because people can't change other people - they can only change themselves. When they try to change other people anyway, things generally turn out even worse. With that being said, Athena, I'm interested to hear your ideas. :) - Rob

Rob, educated people of my grandmother's generation lived by three simple values, and this is the importance of CULTURE.

1. We respect everyone because we are respectful people. It matters not if the other is a bum or the major, because the other doesn't determine our character and behavior. In the old world one's station in life meant everything, king, duke, knight, etc., and social order was maintain by social rules of deference to superiors. Our democracy insisted on equality when it was being taught in our schools, and we stressed respect as a matter of our own character, not who the other is. In 1958 we stopped doing this, and now we often feel free to disrespect each other. Like dogs competiting with each other for position, a person can gain status by being the worst SOB on the block. This is most true of prison culture, but alot of street culture also believes this true. This is a return to barbarism, eating away at our civilization, as we in the US are proud of "Shock and Awe", and the US makes the rest of the world nervous.

Got to run, will get back to 2 and 3 later. Hope you all keep chewing on these thoughts. I hope to teach them in a school next year, and I really want your reactions.

[Samildanach]

Hell I agree with it joke or not. Sleep is one of the most fun things around. Especially that halfawake halfasleep dream state where you are omnipotent and can leap tall buildings in a single bound... :)

[kingjust]

Quote by: Samildanach Hell I agree with it joke or not. Sleep is one of the most fun things around. Especially that halfawake halfasleep dream state where you are omnipotent and can leap tall buildings in a single bound... :)

I'm sorry to go off topic, but adding to this post, don't you hate it when you are having a good damn dream, wake up, then force yourself to go back to sleep hoping you will end up back in the same dream you were having??? :eek: Does that make me a candidate for the straight jacket???

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Athena How about this? Before I found these discussions, I was into another discussion group where meaningful discussion was impossible, because everyone was acting like dogs fighting over bones. Their biggest pleasure was not expanding their minds, but tear each other apart. I was too busy trying to defend myself and protect myself from the next attack, to actually think about what I was thinking. It was constantly like being in the middle of a dog fight, and I found myself driven to find ways to shoot others down, meaning I was reducing myself to their level.

It's a shame that they had to (try to) tear others down in order to feel better about themselves.

Quote by: Athena There is very little of that here. Here I feel like I am with people who are actually trying to use their minds, and who demonstrating quite a bit of respect for each other.

Glad to hear it.

Quote by: Athena Freud divided our minds into 3 parts, id, ego and superego. Or in transactional analysis, child, adult, parent. That is our id is equal to our emotional, demanding child, with learning held in the subconscious. The superego is our parents, teachers and others who influenced us, and is excessively demanding of us to be perfect, whatever that meant to our teachers. Adult- is the referee between id and superego, and between ourselves and society at large, or nature.

I think Freud came close, but I don't think the reality is as simple as his thesis. Also, I'd describe it in more anatomical terms - the different parts of the brain interacting with each other.

Quote by: Athena Democracy as a culture that makes liberty possible, depends on our ability to reason, but unless trained, and exercised, that is the weakest part of our being. We are born with potential to be anything, and what we become depends on what influences us. I very much appreciate the monitor who brings out the best in us in these discussions.

I think it's inaccurate to consider democracy a culture. It's merely a form of government. Nor are people born with the potential to be anything. Everyone has limitations. Some of those limitations are from birth (genes and upbringing), and some of them are from the choices people make. Finally, "the best in us" means something different for each of us.

- Rob