" What makes people shitty?"

[Chris the Chees]

Not using toilet paper.

But seriously, i don't know. Some people just seam to turn out unpleasant, irregardless of nature or nurture, and all that jazz.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Athena Rob, educated people of my grandmother's generation lived by three simple values, and this is the importance of CULTURE. 1. We respect everyone because we are respectful people.

Where does the respectfulness come from?

Quote by: Athena It matters not if the other is a bum or the major, because the other doesn't determine our character and behavior. In the old world one's station in life meant everything, king, duke, knight, etc., and social order was maintain by social rules of deference to superiors.

Just so you know, when I said "different people" I did not mean in terms of social classes and such, but the inherent fact that every individual is somehow different from everyone else.

Quote by: Athena Our democracy insisted on equality when it was being taught in our schools, and we stressed respect as a matter of our own character, not who the other is.

Just because something is taught does not mean that it is *learned*.

Quote by: Athena In 1958 we stopped doing this, and now we often feel free to disrespect each other.

What happened in 1958?

Quote by: Athena Like dogs competiting with each other for position, a person can gain status by being the worst SOB on the block.

I don't think this is true of everywhere.

Quote by: Athena This is most true of prison culture, but alot of street culture also believes this true. This is a return to barbarism, eating away at our civilization, as we in the US are proud of "Shock and Awe", and the US makes the rest of the world nervous. Got to run, will get back to 2 and 3 later. Hope you all keep chewing on these thoughts. I hope to teach them in a school next year, and I really want your reactions.

Crime often (if not always) requires ruthlessness, so it's really no surprise that what you say applies the most to prison and "street" cultures.

- Rob

[mr.perfecto]

Based on recently conducted research, I can also conclude that being overweight and working for the government are also a significant contributing factors.

[Athena]

I assure you, this discussion group is like heaven compared to one I left.

Where does the respectfulness come from? Good, question! By the way, my son-in-law is one of those prison immates who has spent so much time locked up, he will probably never make it on the streets. In the prison culture, respect is earned by being someone who you don't want to mess with. I think the feeling we might call respect, comes from a desire to be like this person. It looks like power and everyone wants that. Daily I say a pray that my grandson keeps his promise to himself to be different from his father. As he is gaining in size and bulk he sees he could probably out do his Dad, if things came down to a physical fight, and he constantly chews on the idea of getting "respect" as his father did. His Dad can intimidate people, and son doesn't see the fear that locks his Dad in the prison value system.

Fortunately, my grandson has a mind for a math and a teacher has recognized that and encourages him to stay with math. Those who really understand math have more power than any wizzard of old dreamed of having, and every chance I get, I remind my grandson of this. Now that is power. We all want power. We respect those who have it. Only it takes much more effort to develop a mental power, and social position that relates to another form of power, and naturally being big and strong, and having a high tolerance for pain, is great for Celtic war leaders, but not so great in the middle of modern civilization. I pray my grandson respects his teacher, and desides the benefits of knowing math for himself.

Hum, as I stumble through an answer, it appears respect comes from holding someone in high esteem and wanting to be as that person. Now if we respect a very respectful person, and what to be as this person, then we act respectfully, just because we want to be seen as a respectful person. I admire people who have self confidence and are so big inside that they are always this immovable tower of strength, always respectful and always know how to a handle a situation and get good results. Such people always make others feel good about themselves. I am far from my ideal, and find it is much easier to come closer to my ideal, when communicating with people such as the people on this list. You all lift me up. I want to be like you, and I want to be accepted by you. So another aspect of where respect comes from, is people such as those on this list, and a desire to be accepted among people I can easily respect. Ah, the saying is, "give what you want to receive".

[Athena]

Just because something is taught, doesn't mean it is learned.

How true! My son in law's father was a brutal man, and this had a stronger influence on him than anything else. His mother fled and once free of the control of her husband, she lived near her children and did her best to be good mother. Unfortunately, the state didn't pay much attention to the brutality the children were enduring and would not give the mother custody of her children. She and a step grandmother, tried so hard to make a difference, and the children were in correctional facilities several times, only making things worse instead of correcting any thing.

One of the most difficult challenges a teacher faces is to enlighten children to what they can be, when their family environment is a destructive one. When parents don't value education, neither will the children because they need to fit into their home situation. Trying to teach middle class values to ghetto kids, is crazy! The first guy I almost married became a Hell's Angel as soon as he could afford a bike. I have seen the other side of the tracks. When Mom is hidding bread for dinner and lying about it, or brothers pull knives on each other in a fight over a pair of pants, middle class values don't make much sense. Knowing how to use anything handy for a weapon, makes sense.

Does this mean we should give up? No! It is like sales work. Everyone isn't going to buy what have to sell, and you don't have to sell to everyone to be a success. What is important is who we are and how we use our lives. If we are lucky we won't hurt too many people, and if we are really lucky, we will touch someone is such a way that person's life and everyone who is close to this person, is better off for a small act of kindness we had the opportunity to do. I am not Christian, but I think Jesus would agree with this.

[Athena]

What happened in 1958?

We replaced our liberal education with education for technology for military and industrial purpose. We stopped transmitting our culture and left moral training to the church. This is how Germany came to Nazi, Germany, and now the same is happening here. Without culture, we are each coming from own id with no social rules other than to win, be first, get it done, get the most. We are destroying civilization and returning to barbarism. Without culture, our technology can't make us wise and can't make us civilized. But we sure can impress the world with "Shock and Awe", and prison torture, and other bullying acts. Three cheers for Bolton getting things done in the UN. Sorry, that was very synical.
We are as what we defended our democracy against, and I pray it is too late to turn things around.

PS democracy is a culture and I am starting a new thread to discuss this.

[MerlinsByte]

Most of the time shittiness is learned from life or from an authority figure. The poor soul that is infected with shittiness has become virulent because of (his or her) inability to resolve problems, conflicts, and anger thus turning it inward to become turdly.This pathological turdly (oftentimes latent) behavior almost always follows a disease progression to clinical depression if not treated with SSRIs.

God has helped me overcome shitiness. I would be a much shittier person without God and or Jesus.

mb

[Morgan_Freeman]

People are shitty because they can get away with it. Most Americans are ignorant to the point of absurdity, and public schools add to the problem. No one learns critical thinking skills, and everyone is awash in this mystical, multiculturalist bunk that denies the individual. People say America is individualist, but I've seen no evidence of that. What I see is fervent anti-individualism. Everyone goes around spouting claptrap and harboring false worldviews, and no one ever attempts to set them straight. I don't know what happened to the individualist culture, or if it ever in fact existed, but it sure isn't here now. I was reading a book of writings by Benjamin Franklin the other day, and I thought to myself, you sure as fuck don't hear this kind of wisdom these days:

Plan of Conduct

1. It is necessary for me to be extremely frugal for some time, till I have paid what I owe.

2. To endeavour to speak truth in every instance; to give nobody expectations that are not likely to be answered, but aim at sincerity in every word and action -- the most amiable excellence in a rational being.

3. To apply myself industriously to whatever business I take in hand, and not divert my mind from my business by any foolish project of growing suddenly rich; for industry and patience are the surest means of plenty.

4. I resolve to speak ill of no man whatever, not even in a matter of truth; but rather by some means excuse the faults I hear charged upon others, and upon proper occasions speak all the good I know of every body.

[Charles]

Research has shown (sorry cant find a source) That small children learn their behavioural patterns from their parents by the age of three. At four years old, you can effectively see who is going to be 'shitty' and who isnt.

[castille]

If people weren't shitty, there would be no such thing as "nice".