freedom of religion problem

[Athena]

I was amazed by the fact that superstitous occult groups, had so much to do with Nazi, Germany. After pondering this many years, I finally had a realization of how this could happen.

Our democracy is founded on philosophy and Naturalism, not the bible. Naturalism relies on science not superstition. I just checked with our local paper and no it would not accept an independent article about Naturalism and democracy, unless it was approved by the interfaith people. Okay I already attempted to be one of the interfaith speakers, speaking on Deism, one of the most important religious groups of our forefathers. The interfaith people proudly welcome all supernatural beliefs, but they do not welcome someone saying there is away to go that is not based on the belief in the supernatural.

I am saying, the voice of science and reason is closed out of our freedom of religion. Our freedom of religion is more supportive of Satanism, a complimenting superstitious belief, than it is of science and reason. So ah ha, that is how occult groups gained so much power in Nazi, Germany. Close out the voice of science and reason, and believe freedom of reiligion means tolerating all supernatural beliefs. Wica has a place in the interfaith series of speakers, but someone speaking of Deist and Naturalism is not included. Same with the religious page of our Newspaper.

[Thunder Wave]

A scary thought that is a probable reality.

'What if's' are probably the most scary thing to think about when it comes to anything. I can see how the US government may be falling down that path. I sure hope not but what if?

I guess one religious enough would just say have faith. But I say learn more, be proactive and on your toes.(I'm saying that generally not necessarily to any specific person)

[Prometheus]

I agree with your point about science and reason taking a back seat to religious beliefs. Just look at the stem cell contraversey. Religion is clearly trumping science and reason.

[Chalk]

That doesn't surprise me as the Nazis appealed to the lowest common denominator- raw emotion. He passed himself off as a man who upheld Christian family values- and people including the church believed him. He was against communists (athiests), Jews (non christian group) and homosexuals (god says sex is for men and women only) and therefore got into their good books. He wanted to bring back a traditional family setting- basically that meant no jobs for women and treating them like breeding animals for populating his 1000 year reich.I could go on and on..
Religion is of course similar- in order for people to genuinely believe in God, you must convince them. Arguably the propaganda of the nazi regime mirrors this- get children whilst they are young, and you can superimpose your beliefs on their minds- voila a christian/nazi/whatever for life.
However I think religion as a whole is not nazism- hey, the nazis used 'scientific facts' to 'prove' the Aryans were superior, thus giving a backbone and basis in 'reality' for nazism (e.g. social darwinism and racial theory presented as logical fact). Perhaps if religion and science got together coherently, nobody could argue with it, as religion's flaw is the lack of proof, and the issue religious people have with science is that it is limitless and stark; there is so much we don't know, and rational thought limits blind faith.

[Athena]

Bush boast about not thinking too much before acting, and some Christians are very pleased with "Shock and Awe" a very clear blending of religion and military might used against non Christians. Christians like the idea that Bush is doing the will of God.

Without our culture to unite us, as it once did, we are as reactionary and easily malnipuolated as the German people were. Charles Sarolea explains this in detail in his 1915 book "The Anglo-German Problem". Germans wrapped themselves in a Christian security blanket, trusting God would protect them, and failing to be as politically activite as people need to be to keep their governments in check. This idea that Germans aren't suited for self government, comes from their willingness to be dreamy and give control of government to the Prussians. Americans today look the same. They can discuss religion, but not the real issues of economics and politics. They mistake debate over gay rights for political discussion. They remain passive as one federal mandate after another, moves the US towards a police state. If anything is to be said of this growth of authoritarianism, it is that because we are naturally evil and Satan has power on earth, this authority is neccessary to protect us from evil.

Look into Martin Luther, the witch hunts and his belief that government authority must act against this evil among the people. Today's war on drugs is just like the witch hunts, siezing of property, imprisoning people, the righteousness of the good people. We repeat history because human nature doesn't change, and we think in our modern world, history has nothing to teach us. Wrong. History has much to teach us.

[Chalk]

Hell yes it does!


..I'm so not a history student, honest :)

[BaldEagle]

Athena...Most of the time I tend to disagree with you but I have come to appreciate your debating skills. You make cogent arguments without resorting to a lot of terse unnecessary labeling. Although I do not know your political preference I would suspect we are of different ilks. But I digress.

I too believe we ignore history way too much. You say history has much to teach us and the fact is history is the only teacher we have. It has no time boundaries either. 200 years ago or 2 minutes ago. Both can provide knowledge that can shape your life or destroy it if ignored or misinterpretted. What generally happens is that history gets manipulated to suit a need. An idea will spring up and history may deem it unworthy but the dreamer will implement their own little caveat to refine the event and use that as justification for reliving bad experiences. I am not saying that is always bad, but more often than not it turns out to be precious little difference from the original event. And so we try again.

BaldEagle