How is sin transferred exactly?

[James]

Quote by: Starboy Keep posting James. You just make my point. The best thing you could do is just accept that you are nuts and don't try to explain your insanity to anyone. Nothing you have posted changes the fact that making living sacrifices at all to a supreme being doesn't make any sense let alone human sacrifices and let alone the human sacrifice of the son of god. All it does is elevate the insanity to the completely absurd. All it does is illustrate just how screwed up in the head you actually are. Starboy

Okay, so... what's your argument? I've posted my beliefs and all you can say is how insane I must be.

[Starboy]

Quote by: James Okay, so... what's your argument? I've posted my beliefs and all you can say is how insane I must be.

Hey, I am sure you think that Voodoo priests sacrificing live goats at weddings are at least odd. It escapes me how you would think that a human blood sacrifice is somehow better. If you can't see at least how it could be at least slightly crazy then there is no hope for you.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy Hey, I am sure you think that Voodoo priests sacrificing live goats at weddings are at least odd. It escapes me how you would think that a human blood sacrifice is somehow better. If you can't see at least how it could be at least slightly crazy then there is no hope for you. Starboy

Yeah, because they don't have to. Jesus died for their sins.
Jesus wasn't a normal man.

If you really want to know why it makes sense and why it had to be that way, ask a preacher. And if you do, make it a Baptist preacher so we'll be on the same page.
The Bible says ask and it shall be given unto you. So, ask.

[Starboy]

Quote by: James Yeah, because they don't have to. Jesus died for their sins. Jesus wasn't a normal man. If you really want to know why it makes sense and why it had to be that way, ask a preacher. And if you do, make it a Baptist preacher so we'll be on the same page. The Bible says ask and it shall be given unto you. So, ask.

As I thought. You really do not see anything at all wrong with a human blood sacrifice.

Starboy

[Agent007]

It is believed in Christianity that when the first humans, Adam and Eve, were tempted by the snake of Eden, otherwise known as Satan, they committed the first sin by attempting to deceive and disobeying God. They were marked by the "original sin," which carries on to all of their progeny. When a child or an adult is first baptized, the taint of original sin is removed from his or her system, and he or she is considered a member of the church (he or she must go through all three rights of initiation in the Catholic Church before being considered a full member, though). Those with original sin cannot enter heaven; the holy baptism of babies and other people and the absolution of the original sin--in addition to other sins humans commit--only happened after Jesus died for mankind's redemption in crucifixion. It is beleived by some that all those who died before Jesus went to Purgatory as long as they were righteous; Jesus descended into this place--which is believed by others to be Hell--to free these righteous souls for Heaven. From that moment, all the newly baptized people are born with original sin but lose it when they accept Jesus Christ. By the way, Jesus and His mother Mary are the only people without original sin. The existence of Mary as being without this sin is called the Immaculate Conception; it prepared the way for the purity and piety of God the Son, Christ.

[Starboy]

Yes Agent007, I am aware of all that mythology. It is very interesting that no one seems to object to human blood sacrifices. All that hoopla down in the South over the Voodoo animal sacrifices was just more that good'ol Christian double standard. Can't have any animal sacrifices but they see no problem with celebrating a human blood sacrifice. Hell they even made this gory, bloody, graphic movie about it. And they were so pleased with themselves to see it. It just boggles the mind.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy Yes Agent007, I am aware of all that mythology. It is very interesting that no one seems to object to human blood sacrifices. All that hoopla down in the South over the Voodoo animal sacrifices was just more that good'ol Christian double standard. Can't have any animal sacrifices but they see no problem with celebrating a human blood sacrifice. Hell they even made this gory, bloody, graphic movie about it. And they were so pleased with themselves to see it. It just boggles the mind. Starboy

Humans don't have to be sacrificed anymore since Jesus was. And nobody needs to be. NOTHING needs to be sacrificed anymore since Jesus gave Himself in place of us.

What are you talking about 'hoopla in the South'? Are you in the South? You think we give animal sacrifices or something?

And animals have no rights. Do you believe unborn babies deserve the right to life?
Animals do, though, huh? :eek:
But anyway, the Bible says that man has dominion over all things on the earth.

[Starboy]

Quote by: James Humans don't have to be sacrificed anymore since Jesus was. And nobody needs to be. NOTHING needs to be sacrificed anymore since Jesus gave Himself in place of us.

Does it matter that you bloody Christians no longer perform human sacrifices. Isn't is crazy enought that you think that a bloody human sacrifice is needed at all?

What are you talking about 'hoopla in the South'? Are you in the South? You think we give animal sacrifices or something?

Wipe the milk off your upper lip. There are more supernatural religions in the world that you even have a clue of and some of them are practiced right here in the good'ol USA. You know, freedom of religion. If you go to New Orleans go see a Voodoo priestess. Go during Mardi Gras.

And animals have no rights. Do you believe unborn babies deserve the right to life? Animals do, though, huh? :eek: But anyway, the Bible says that man has dominion over all things on the earth.

You are right animals have no rights, but human blood sacrifice is just fine even if it is only once though you are against abortion even if it is not a human being but is just a single cell. Sure all of that makes complete sense.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy Does it matter that you bloody Christians no longer perform human sacrifices. Isn't is crazy enought that you think that a bloody human sacrifice is needed at all?

If Jesus hadn't been sacrificed for our sins, then we would still be offering animals. And with as many people there are in the world today, that would take a LOT of animals. Also, not everyone could afford to always be offering sacrifices for their sins. So, Jesus came to help the rich and poor, everyone.

Quote by: Starboy You are right animals have no rights, but human blood sacrifice is just fine even if it is only once though you are against abortion even if it is not a human being but is just a single cell. Sure all of that makes complete sense.

Um, no... That didn't make much sense, what you just said. :eek:

[Starboy]

Quote by: James If Jesus hadn't been sacrificed for our sins, then we would still be offering animals. And with as many people there are in the world today, that would take a LOT of animals. Also, not everyone could afford to always be offering sacrifices for their sins. So, Jesus came to help the rich and poor, everyone.

So what you are saying is that as far as you are concerned human blood sacrifce is a-okay.

Um, no... That didn't make much sense, what you just said. :eek:

No it doesn't. It is very hard to reconcile any of the so called Christian moral positions with the fact that they think that a human blood sacrifice is just fine. Even if it only happened once.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy So what you are saying is that as far as you are concerned human blood sacrifce is a-okay. No it doesn't. It is very hard to reconcile any of the so called Christian moral positions with the fact that they think that a human blood sacrifice is just fine. Even if it only happened once. Starboy

I'm fine with it, then. There. Is that what you wanted to hear?
Only Jesus' sacrifice. I choose to be thankful to Jesus that He came to earth to die for my sins so that I wouldn't have to live in eternal torment in hell.

[Starboy]

Quote by: James I'm fine with it, then. There. Is that what you wanted to hear? Only Jesus' sacrifice. I choose to be thankful to Jesus that He came to earth to die for my sins so that I wouldn't have to live in eternal torment in hell.

Not exactly. But I didn't expect you to admit it either. Hell I wouldn't want to admit it. I mean who would want to admit that they were involved in a group that presented as the centerpiece of their religion a bloody human sacrifice. I mean it sounds like the plot of a horror movie.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy Not exactly. But I didn't expect you to admit it either. Hell I wouldn't want to admit it. I mean who would want to admit that they were involved in a group that presented as the centerpiece of their religion a bloody human sacrifice. I mean it sounds like the plot of a horror movie. Starboy

I don't endorse human sacrifice, I just wanted to see what you would say to that.

The bloody cross symbolizes God's love for us, a love so strong that He would send His own son from the peace and perfection of heaven to come here and suffer and die for a bunch of lying, thieving, adulterous murderers who don't even believe Him to exist.

He loves us so much, I wish I could even fully comprehend it, myself.

[Starboy]

Sorry, but symbolic bloody human sacrifice just makes it even more sick.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy Sorry, but symbolic bloody human sacrifice just makes it even more sick. Starboy

Their life is the greatest thing a person can sacrifice for someone else.
The person in that bloody, 'sick' image paid the ultimate price for you. How about showing a little respect?

[Starboy]

Quote by: James Their life is the greatest thing a person can sacrifice for someone else. The person in that bloody, 'sick' image paid the ultimate price for you. How about showing a little respect?

If Jesus was just a human being his "sacrifice" would be pointless. If Jesus was god his "sacrifice" would be pointless. Either way you slice it, it was a bloody human sacrifice. People that worships such a bloody human sacrifice as the centerpiece of their religion and repeat the ritual killing over and over century after century in their ceremony are sick. Primitive superstitious peoples do such things. People with primitive superstitious minds think such things are important. Nobody that was educated in the knowledge and understanding of the twenty-first century would for one second consider a bloody human sacrifice to be a great solution to any problem.

Starboy

[James]

Quote by: Starboy If Jesus was just a human being his "sacrifice" would be pointless. If Jesus was god his "sacrifice" would be pointless. Either way you slice it, it was a bloody human sacrifice. People that worships such a bloody human sacrifice as the centerpiece of their religion and repeat the ritual killing over and over century after century in their ceremony are sick. Primitive superstitious peoples do such things. People with primitive superstitious minds think such things are important. Nobody that was educated in the knowledge and understanding of the twenty-first century would for one second consider a bloody human sacrifice to be a great solution to any problem. Starboy

Jesus is the son of God, and also God. Don't get me started on the Trinity.
Why would His sacrifice be pointless? I just gave you a very good reason for this, and you pretty much just said, 'nuh-uh'.
Yes, it was bloody. That just shows all that He was willing to go through to save us. How and when do we repeat 'ritual killing' over and over again? Not a Christian.

And what is your definition of 'superstition'?

What is the knowledge and understanding of the 21st century that you're talking about? A bunch of atheists denying God and thinking themselves to be great because they can, in their minds, prove and map out the way the universe and everything in it operates?

If that's what 21st century knowledge is, then I'd rather not join the rest of the world in that century.

[Starboy]

Quote by: James Jesus is the son of God, and also God. Don't get me started on the Trinity. Why would His sacrifice be pointless? I just gave you a very good reason for this, and you pretty much just said, 'nuh-uh'.

Why does god have to do anything by way of a bloody human sacrifice?

Yes, it was bloody. That just shows all that He was willing to go through to save us.

I repeat, why would god have to do anything by way of a bloody human sacrifice?

How and when do we repeat 'ritual killing' over and over again?

So you are telling me that there are not special services to mark the crucifixion each year?

Not a Christian.

Maybe not but I can't tell. As far as I am concerned if a person says they are a Christian then *poof* they are a Christian. It is not as if I can pick up a reliable Christian detector in the tool section of Home Depot.

And what is your definition of 'superstition'?

This is what Webster's has to say:

Quote by: Webster's Main Entry: su•per•sti•tion Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'sti-sh&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English supersticion, from Middle French, from Latin superstition-, superstitio, from superstit-, superstes standing over (as witness or survivor), from super- + stare to stand -- more at STAND 1 a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition 2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

So you tell me if it applies. It is not as if faith is not the act of accepting something that you would not accept in any other circumstance. That would qualify under 1) and 2).

What is the knowledge and understanding of the 21st century that you're talking about? A bunch of atheists denying God and thinking themselves to be great because they can, in their minds, prove and map out the way the universe and everything in it operates?

I sure wish they would send you Christians off to logic boot camp or something so that you would not spout the same old crappy arguments over and over and over as if they were worth a damn. Frankly it makes you all look like a bunch of idiots.

The knowledge and understanding of the twenty-first century stems from the Enlightenment which resulted in constitutional forms of government, modern science, modern economics, the rejection of the Feudal system and slavery in general. The separation of religion and government. The success of the scientific approach to exploring and explaining reality and the realization of what can be accomplished if people would just be honest with themselves.

Now there are some people that call themselves atheists that do indeed claim to reject god but that is just silly. An actual atheist could no more reject god than you could reject the tooth fairy. How can you reject something that for all intents and purposes is not there to reject?

As for people who think they are great look in the mirror buddy. As for me, since I actually want to know and understand reality, rather than resort to the myths of the Bronze Age I would prefer to actually go and look at the universe. You see one of the giant breakthroughs that resulted in what is known as modern science was the break from religion that demanded that reality must fit those Bronze Age myths. The giant break, which started with Galileo, was to just go and take an honest look at reality. Amazing, just go and honestly look at reality to try to figure it out. And you are living smack dab in the middle of the results of that simple idea.

You see when you allow your mythology to dictate your view of the universe when all you have to do is go look and when you do you find it is nothing like your mythology but you still cling to that mythology then you are superstitious.

If that's what 21st century knowledge is, then I'd rather not join the rest of the world in that century.

You have already made that painfully obvious. Go worship your bloody human sacrifice.

Starboy

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Athena I was reading the bible and got to wondering, why didn't God send Jesus instead of a flood that destroyed everything but what Noah could get on a boat? He did so love the earth and people that time. Does God have good days and bad days like humans?

I do not know if God ever had a bad hair day or not. But I do have a concept about your question.

In the old testiment God expressed he male aspects of domination and so forth, he was the boss, do it my way or else. It was all guy stuff, like holy wars and so forth. But then one afternoon, in the cool of the day, He got in touch with his female side - he experienced the goddess within God, and became emotonal and compassionate instead of being stern and judgemental. Just like some of our modern men have done where they end up crying and hugging and loving one another with "feelings".

Our "father" in heaven then transformed in attitude and became more "mothering" about his creation - and presto - we had warm blooded birds mothering their eggs instead of dinosaours that would lay eggs and cold bloodly walk away leaving them to fend for their self, the "warm mothering age" was begot on earth. And flowers and other female decorations were added to creation, where as before most plants were all army green.

The union between "him" the male God aspect and the "Goddess Within" was then symbolically expressed in the Bible as the New Testiment was about love which came to the surface from the Goddess half of God, where as the old testiment was all about God before he got in touch with his female aspect of Self.

[Athena]

Quote by: Technosoul I do not know if God ever had a bad hair day or not. But I do have a concept about your question. In the old testiment God expressed he male aspects of domination and so forth, he was the boss, do it my way or else. It was all guy stuff, like holy wars and so forth. But then one afternoon, in the cool of the day, He got in touch with his female side - he experienced the goddess within God, and became emotonal and compassionate instead of being stern and judgemental. Just like some of our modern men have done where they end up crying and hugging and loving one another with "feelings". Our "father" in heaven then transformed in attitude and became more "mothering" about his creation - and presto - we had warm blooded birds mothering their eggs instead of dinosaours that would lay eggs and cold bloodly walk away leaving them to fend for their self, the "warm mothering age" was begot on earth. And flowers and other female decorations were added to creation, where as before most plants were all army green. The union between "him" the male God aspect and the "Goddess Within" was then symbolically expressed in the Bible as the New Testiment was about love which came to the surface from the Goddess half of God, where as the old testiment was all about God before he got in touch with his female aspect of Self.

That was beautiful. I hope you meant it to be funny, because I enjoyed laughing a lot. I really like the explanation of the transition between dinosaours and warm blooded animals with mothering instincts. I would find it much easier to go with the teachings of Jesus if they were not connected with the old testament and demons from the East. I do think Jesus spoke for the Goddess/Mother culture that existed before the male dominate culture.