To the Atheist: The Universe. By Chance or Design?

[Starboy]

RickSp maybe someday constant repetition of this point may sink into theist brains. It is not as if atheists are the ones that get to write the definition of the word “atheist” that gets put into the dictionary and if we could it is not as if it would matter. Theists cling to that definition because it gives them a straw man to knock down when they come across an actual atheist. I can't tell you how many times I have tried to correct theists on this. And of course there are many people that call themselves atheist that have for whatever reason adopt the theist definition of atheist without thinking much on it. What theists don't understand is that atheism is the default position. It is the position one is in when one has no beliefs in gods. Everyone is born an atheist whether they like it or not.

Starboy

[Khushi]

I don't think atheism is the default position. Atheism is a refusal to believe in God; the very disbelief is in itself a belief and a religion. Babies are born without will or religion as far as we know, so i dont think they're atheists.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Khushi I don't think atheism is the default position. Atheism is a refusal to believe in God; the very disbelief is in itself a belief and a religion. Babies are born without will or religion as far as we know, so i dont think they're atheists.

So a lack of belief is a belief and indeed an entire religion? Wow. And up is down and wet is dry, I suppose.

And again atheism is not a "refusal" to believe in god. That sentence implies that god is a given, obvious, proveable. None of which are true. The burden of proof is on the theists to demonstrate that their particular bundle of beliefs has any validity.

For the theistically disposed there really is no such thing as one god anyway. The Christians, Jews and Muslims claim to sort of share the same god, which hasn't stopped them from killing each other in his holy name throughout history and to this day. Even the Christians who notionally should have only one god, killed each other over variations in dogma for centuries. The Hindus have many gods. The Buddhists have between none and a legion depending on which flavor of Buddhism you look at and how you interpret them.

To say that "atheism is a refusal to believe in God" is ridiculous.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Khushi I don't think atheism is the default position. Atheism is a refusal to believe in God; the very disbelief is in itself a belief and a religion. Babies are born without will or religion as far as we know, so i dont think they're atheists.

Define the word anyway you like. That is your prerogative. However if your intent is to communicate using the English language perhaps you should take the time to learn something about it:

Quote by: Webster's Main Entry: 2a- Pronunciation: (')A also (')a or (')ä Variant(s): or an- /(')an/ Function: prefix Etymology: Latin & Greek; Latin, from Greek -- more at UN- : not : without <asexual> -- a- before consonants other than h and sometimes even before h, an- before vowels and usually before h <achromatic> <ahistorical> <anastigmatic> <anhydrous>

theist - one with belief in god
a-theist - one without belief in god.

A baby is without belief in god. It matters not that they are not able to form an opinion about god; the fact is they lack such a belief. A baby is an atheist.

Quote by: Webster's Main Entry: dis- Function: prefix Etymology: Middle English dis-, des-, from Old French & Latin; Old French des-, dis-, from Latin dis-, literally, apart; akin to Old English te- apart, Latin duo two -- more at TWO 1 a : do the opposite of <disestablish> b : deprive of (a specified quality, rank, or object) <disfranchise> c : exclude or expel from <disbar> 2 : opposite or absence of <disunion> <disaffection> 3 : not <disagreeable> 4 : completely <disannul> 5 [by folk etymology] : DYS- <disfunction>

When the vast number of theists use the word atheist what they actually mean is dis-theist. A dis-theist takes a position opposing a belief in god.

I personally don't care if you believe in god or not. What I don't like it when theists lie, defraud, deceive, misrepresent, and manipulate what is actually known about god and just about everything else to make their case for what is essentially a supernatural superstition. I especially do not like their rampant hypocrisy. I do not see them to be a good example of anything other then insane magical thinking. But there is no law against magical thinking however there are laws against fraud and lying. But for some reason theists are not being tried for their frauds and lies. And for some reason they are not content to have the liberty to practice their own religion as they see fit. They are intent on making everyone live by their values. If I were a theist I would think about my claims regarding reality very carefully. There will come a time in this country when Christians will not enjoy the special treatment they currently enjoy.

Starboy

[Khushi]

Webster:
atheism: 1 the belief that there is no God, or denial that God or gods exist
2 godlessness
:confused: ....so what again do you say on atheism?

[Khushi]

I don't know what dictionary you're using, but I'm using Webster's New World Dictionary & Thesaurus Version 2.0

[Starboy]

Quote by: Khushi Webster: atheism: 1 the belief that there is no God, or denial that God or gods exist 2 godlessness :confused: ....so what again do you say on atheism?

I say that the definitions of words that are found in the dictionary are based on their common usage not on their root meanings. And since theists dominate they have turned the word atheist into a straw man to knock down so that they think they know what they are talking about. However the word atheist did not always have its current meaning just as the word democracy did not always have its current meaning.

However if it will make you feel any better in regards to the meaning of the word atheist you can call me a non-theist if you like. And of course a baby would also be a non-theist.

Starboy

[Khushi]

Yes...perhaps you are right. A non-theist is a better term than atheist for people who do not have belief in God. By the way, why do you not capitalize the first letter of "God." Doing so would be more proper and give some respect to theists even if you don't agree with them. :(

[Starboy]

Quote by: Khushi Yes...perhaps you are right. A non-theist is a better term than atheist for people who do not have belief in God.

Theist do not have any sense of fair play. They would certain get upset if I were to tell them what it means to be a Christian but for some reason they can't see the other side of it. Go figure.

Starboy

[Starboy]

Quote by: Khushi By the way, why do you not capitalize the first letter of "God." Doing so would be more proper and give some respect to theists even if you don't agree with them. :(

Respect to who? God? What god? It is you that wants to respect it, so respect it. I am not stopping you.

Starboy

[Khushi]

Yeah, perhaps theists should not be so harsh on non-theists...then both sides wouldn't be so mean to each other (I've noticed a lot of threads are just theist vs. non-theists bashing each other's principles)

[RickSp]

Quote by: Starboy Respect to who? God? What god? It is you that wants to respect it, so respect it. I am not stopping you. Starboy

Or even which god? Are you referring exclusively to the Christian god? Are you suggesting that the Christian god is the only god? Isn't that showing a degree of disrespect for all those who worship different gods?

[Prometheus]

Stop bitching about crap like capitalization. That is quite petty.

No one expects Starboy to pay respect to anything. Starboy has a point to make, and will disrespect for it's own sake.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Khushi Yeah, perhaps theists should not be so harsh on non-theists...then both sides wouldn't be so mean to each other (I've noticed a lot of threads are just theist vs. non-theists bashing each other's principles)

Atheists or non-theists if you will only make up 2% of the US population. Theist make up at least %85 percent. And they are intent on shoving their religion in everyone's face. I have lost jobs because I was an atheist; have been harassed by bosses, co-workers, and just people on the street. For all of my life I have been an atheist. For thirty five of them it has never been an issue or a problem, but these last two decades it has been just nuts. The evangelical are running amok.

Starboy

[Agent007]

I am sorry to read what you have to write Starboy, but you should be tolerant of others as well. Do not try to put use your intolerance and promote your atheist agenda.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Starboy Atheists or non-theists if you will only make up 2% of the US population. Theist make up at least %85 percent. And they are intent on shoving their religion in everyone's face. I have lost jobs because I was an atheist; have been harassed by bosses, co-workers, and just people on the street. For all of my life I have been an atheist. For thirty five of them it has never been an issue or a problem, but these last two decades it has been just nuts. The evangelical are running amok. Starboy

Starboy, if you lost a job over atheism, or was harassed it is only because you do what you accuse theists of doing. You rub everyones face in your contraversial beleifs. As you have demonstrated on this forum you cannot just quietly hold your beliefs. You must be confrontational and "in your face" about how right you are and how dumb theists are. None of my bosses know wheather I am a theist or atheist. It's not something I go parading about. You on the other hane bring up your (ofensive to many people) beliefs at every availible opportunity.

I'm sorry, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry when/if you get persecuted for your beliefs when I know how bellicose and aggressife you are about it.

Most mormons bitch about how we were wronged when our people were illegally chased out of Missourri. They say how were were treated unjustly and how we were so greviously wronged. I have issue with these people because the reason we were chased out was that many of the mormons were going around telling the locals how we were going to build Zion there and the rest of the people would be burned. I don't have sympathy for people when they act that way, and you are doing the same thing.

[rez]

Quote by: Prometheus Starboy, if you lost a job over atheism, or was harassed it is only because you do what you accuse theists of doing. You rub everyones face in your contraversial beleifs. As you have demonstrated on this forum you cannot just quietly hold your beliefs. You must be confrontational and "in your face" about how right you are and how dumb theists are. None of my bosses know wheather I am a theist or atheist. It's not something I go parading about. You on the other hane bring up your (ofensive to many people) beliefs at every availible opportunity.

this is a debate forum.........Sean likes that Starboy brings up his opinion at every opportunity because it brings in MOney.

Quote by: Prometheus I'm sorry, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry when/if you get persecuted for your beliefs when I know how bellicose and aggressife you are about it.

It is the internet, so really you don't know Starboy to say this.

Quote by: Prometheus Most mormons bitch about how we were wronged when our people were illegally chased out of Missourri. They say how were were treated unjustly and how we were so greviously wronged. I have issue with these people because the reason we were chased out was that many of the mormons were going around telling the locals how we were going to build Zion there and the rest of the people would be burned. I don't have sympathy for people when they act that way, and you are doing the same thing.

That is really great. I love hating other people religions and gods by telling little kid bible stories, but please make a point about how you are one with god and how I am going to hell because im an athiest.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: rez It is the internet, so really you don't know Starboy to say this.

Yah, it's the internet, but you can still get personality information. With as obnoxious as Starboy is online, it's pretty safe to assume that samoe of it comes out in his day to day interactions. Especially given that he's been fired for his opinions. Most people don't get fired for opinions. Obnoxiously and insessently shoving them in someones face might get you fired though.

That is really great. I love hating other people religions and gods by telling little kid bible stories, but please make a point about how you are one with god and how I am going to hell because im an athiest.

What the bloody hell are you saying here? Kiddy bible stories and you going to hell? I am not and never have been in the buisiness of telling people they are going to hell, and I don't appreciate it being implied.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus Yah, it's the internet, but you can still get personality information. With as obnoxious as Starboy is online, it's pretty safe to assume that samoe of it comes out in his day to day interactions. Especially given that he's been fired for his opinions. Most people don't get fired for opinions. Obnoxiously and insessently shoving them in someones face might get you fired though.

I am sure this has not occured to you but you come off as being obnoxious to me.

Starboy

[RickSp]

Quote by: belverron Or the Second Coming, eh?

Lets' not starting talking dirty now. Well, OK, introducing sex into the conversation might add an element of interest but I think it is somewhere against somebody's rules.

Of that's not what you meant.

Oh well.